To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 10 Discussion / Poll

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

Touma/Kuroko ftw...

^ the absolute undeniable truth... in my filtered view of TAMNI

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Okay this is some serious problem here, you don't understand that's why you don't agree is somethings really problematics, you have a self centered problem( no i'm not offensive towards you, i'm a psychologist and this is actually quite common problem) Let's say you don't understand how how theory of energy conversion work, does that mean you believe that energy conversion don't exist??? you don't understand how western or eastern philosophy work, does that mean they are wrong ??? you might say that this is your expression but your word carry the hint about yourself and this isn't the 1st time you did this.

Similar to lv7, albeit less extreme and more self control, you have the habit of twisting the meaning to make them in your favor. in the novel Kamachi has stated that Othinus and Touma understanding is not an one-way ticket, and he also said that it is only natural that Nikoto don't understand him, but you still come right off with Mikoto being the girl understand him the most. You said you want evidence but when people give out, you denies them in favor of your arguments, you never actually present a solid point or quote to refute that. You assumed you are the one in position to have people explain to you, not the other way around. So you don't understand, okay, then stop poking into where people are talking about something you don't understand even with their explanation, you keep "challenge" them for what ??? keeping the debate going ??? anyone ask you to do that ???

Last thing, challenge is fine and all but your post cross the border of provocative, let's say that the way you put it can easily make people feel offended, i do the last time i have a debate with you back in during the translation still ongoing and i remember i once post that you should avoid to provoke people before.

Spoiler for reply:

Look I know the reasons why they like Othinus OTP (the reasons I pointed out in one of my posts) it's that I don't understand why they call OTP when the reason they point out can be argued with, understanding alone is not what drives a relationship a romantic one at that (it helps, but is not everything), there are more factors at play to form a romatic relationship, heck any kind of relationship. I am not going to agree with something u don't understand if someone doesn't try to explain to me in a concise way why they do, but still whether at the end I agree or not it doesn't matter because I would come out of that conversation with a new understanding, I can't do that if everyone keeps misunderstanding what I write, how are you so sure that that's what I meant? I'm not perfect and seesins as english isn't my primary language it's difficult for me to express myself in a way that won't create misunderstandings. I don't care if you are a psychologist, what I care about is your opinions on the matter, me challenging what you think about a character or story and pitting them against each other is what a discussion is like and what's important in the end whether I agree or disagree is what we take out of said discussion, which I like to think about after the fact.

About the Mikoto thing it was the same as this I didn't knkw how to express what I wanted to say at the time, that's why I kept trying to edit the post as much as I could (you can see that I was editing it) and changed a few things (sadly not all of the ones I wanted to fix), still tell me how you know what I meant to say at the time. I admit I got a little biased because I kept reading posts on this thread sayong that it was rushed, it was unnecessary, etc. and for that I will apologize, but please don't tell me that when something you like is being attacked you won't try to defend it.

Now in that post about Mikoto in one of my edits I added, thay everyone who Touma meets understands him to a certain point, what I forgot to add at the time was that for that exact moment and situation he was going trough Misaka Mikoto was the only one who could have done it, since she went through a despair kind of like his when she found out about the sisters, which was putting the blame of something that isn't really their fault in themselves. Besides in that same post I wrote the out of everyone that he knows she is the one trying to understand him the most.

Also if you are on a forum site where one goes to discuss stuff you have to expect a debate or two, since different points of views are clashing in that site.

Also, please stop bringing LevelSeven up in this discussions he (or she) isn't a part of it and isn't fair to him (or her), your problem is with me. Oh and please don't bring titles into a discussion, it's not.going to surprise me, I can do it too let's see currently studying Human Sciences, I've been through ten weeks of basic training in the U.S. ARMY, Private First Class, see too easy

And yes I sometimes contradict myself, I'm not perfect, I'm only human.

.

You mean ToumaxKumokawaMaria ftw.

[Ravagerblade]

^lolz, Ok Chosen_Hero.
For the sake of On-topic let's(the community) discuss the Touma Othinus moments and gain an understanding of what each scene and what each action means.

[Secret Chief]

I think the girl who understand TouMan most is not Mikoto, nor Othinus.

Spoiler for My opinion:

It's Will-chan.

P.S. Sorry for ridiculous shipping.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by Secret Chief

I think the girl who understand TouMan most is not Mikoto, nor Othinus.

Spoiler for My opinion:

It's Will-chan.

P.S. Sorry for ridiculous shipping.

That's cause she's a stalker... a scary scary stalker...

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Secret Chief

I think the girl who understand TouMan most is not Mikoto, nor Othinus.

Spoiler for My opinion:

It's Will-chan.

P.S. Sorry for ridiculous shipping.

I agree with that for the most part, it's

Spoiler for Who understands Touma the most; order:

Will-san should probably be at the top, followed by Othinus my reason is while reached an understanding they still don't know a whole lot about each other as beings. The understanding part comes from living in that hell and being lonely basically

As for the now and foreseeable future I will say neither Mikoto nor Index really understands Touma. Index could understand/sympathize Touma's memory loss but she doesn't even try to understand what it really means when she's living in his dorm not doing anything while he suffers without apparent actual complaint. Mikoto is her naïveté, she tries to understand but she ultimately fails but I'll give her props with her fight this Volume but it felt a little wrong in a way but try to suspend my willing of disbelief a bit.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

^lolz, Ok Chosen_Hero.
For the sake of On-topic let's(the community) discuss the Touma Othinus moments and gain an understanding of what each scene and what each action means.

No, it's fine no need to keep that discussion going, let's just agree to disagree, I've been at it for two days (I could keep going but enough is enough I'm not here to make enemies, sadly I feel I'll have to reply again) and I haven't gotten any good sleep all week, let's leave it for next time.

@Ravagerblade

Nope, not gonna even read it too sleepy and it's way too late where I live, I will not be baited into a shipping war, I am not stupid, you guys can discuss it if you want I am going to sleep.

... Maybe tomorrow, maybe, if I'm up for it.

[BossKagaxx]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Aogami, is that you!?

Not yet, I haven't included the shota patriarch yet.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

No, it's fine no need to keep that discussion going, let's just agree to disagree, I've been at it for two days (I could keep going but enough is enough I'm not here to make enemies, sadly I feel I'll have to reply again) and I haven't gotten any good sleep all week, let's leave it for next time.

@Ravagerblade

Nope, not gonna even read it too sleepy and it's way too late where I live, I will not be baited into a shipping war, I am not stupid, you guys can discuss it if you want I am going to sleep.

lols It doesn't even have to be a shipping war, It's the understanding I'd try to discuss. Don't run, Chosen_Hero.

:P

You do know this post will still be here when you get back, it's not going anywhere so don't make that excuse it's most unbecoming. Good night btw.

[FlyingCow65]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

^lolz, Ok Chosen_Hero.
For the sake of On-topic let's(the community) discuss the Touma Othinus moments and gain an understanding of what each scene and what each action means.

First scene on Sargasso it´s like restarting a friendship with an old friend, many jokes and things to laugh, also the part where he says he will wait for her to walk below the sun with a smile, he want´s to be with her, willing to wait a long time just to see her again.

The ending of chapter 9 gives the feeling that Touma is afraid of losing both the chance to give a fair trail to Othinus and a chance of a normal life and losing a friend.

Chater 10 gives the feeling that they are in the comfort zone, the scene of Othinus hitting ligthly his partner gives a warm feeling of friendship there.

Chapter 11 He founds her lovely while sleeping he even played with her hat, great scene here, it gave the feeling that Othinus is willing to give her back at Touma knowing full well she would recieve help from him.

Chapter 12: Not much since it was more of talking and trolling that those two, but the ending gives the feeling that she was worried about him and even scared since she didn´t saw him with her when she woke up.

Chapter 13: Interactions of comedy and the most important was her feelings of anger since she couldn´t help him in the figth.

Chapter 14: Touma showe happines that he could have a better chance with Othinus if he gave her to them, even if it was 100 years he could find a way to see her again.

Chapter 15: Gave the feeling of the wonderful wife who owns a bakery or a flowery while his husband is fighting crime.

Chapter 16: Not much since it was the Mikoto scene, but it showed clearly that his priority was Othinus, of course at the end.

Chapter 17: This was more of TouBirdy moments, she knew her big brother had seen hell, Touma looked back and hell blinked, here birdy knew something tht only those two had.

Chapter 18: I almost cried, I saw a side that Othinus couldn´t show in the other chapters, the feeling of loosing Touma in front of her, she begged for them to stop and in the end Ollerus saved them, she even classified Touma as her most precious partner, not only that, we see the importance of the prescence of those two, a monster far more cruel than the Magic God Othinus? A change on the nature of Touma? It gaves the feeling that even those two alone could brougth the end of the world if they lose one of them. and only for Revenge.

Chapter 19: Choo choo!!!

Chapter 20: I cried at the moment she attacked, her intention were clear as water, she tried to save him from the same punishment, and Touma told her he would still save her, not only that we get to see the IDTI being a hug, managing to pull out the arrow he saved her only for her to disappear in front of him, here I felt my heart being crushed.

Epilogue: Touma said that only "He remained Behind" only one person who knew the pain of not having a home to get back, in that moment the world without Othinus was another world, this could have been the downfall of Kamijou Touma until...

This

“Hey, is it just me or are you acting like I’m dead?”

This was the feeling of complete happiness, even if she was a 15 cm of herself for Touma it was Othinus something that he truly wanted to see again, here I think that Othinus has a strong place on his heart, what is it¡ I don´t know but is there, is a diferent feeling when you are with someone else, he thougth he had losed part of himself but Othinus back brougth back a smile on him.

Conclusion: There´s something between those two, they know, but they don´t say anything because they don´t need words that thing is there.

Fiuu finished

[dragon1412]

^^^^my companion

uh ... i'm only goes away for a few hours and Rvagerblade is banned ??? why ???

[Secret Chief]

Originally Posted by FlyingCow65

Chapter 16: Not much since it was the Mikoto scene, but it showed clearly that his priority was Othinus, of course at the end.

Well, that is an interesting point of view.
I never thought that protecting A against B means Touma's priority is A, because TouMan helps others no matter how much he likes them.(Help Fräulein Kreutune against Birdy)

[Haigon]

You guys keep arguing knowing that with it is a shounen series and Touma have more chances of dying as a kissless virgin than ending up with any girl.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by FlyingCow65

Chapter 19: Choo choo!!!

Erm erm, what about...

Spoiler for That moment in chapter 19:

“What I want to do, hm?”

She fell silent for a while.

“Can it really be anything?”

“Why are you asking me?”

“Because I want to ask you. Can I really pursue any dream I want?”

She stared at the side of his face from close up.

He had lost a lot of blood and his swollen eyelids must have narrowed his vision because he did not notice her expression.

“Of course you can,” he immediately replied.

“I see.”

Hearing that, her mouth opened in a small smile.

“What? Did you find your dream?”

“I have no reason to tell you what it is.”

“…?”

He turned his battered face toward her, but she had already returned her expression to normal.

[Secret Chief]

Originally Posted by Haigon

You guys keep arguing knowing that with it is a shounen series and Touma have more chances of dying as a kissless virgin than ending up with any girl.

I think so too.
And this cold reality breaks the illsuion of shippers.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

And? What's the point then?

I said Touma will move on with his life without a major change, that's all.

I said change in behaviour isn't the only major change that exists. If he suddenly give up on saving anyone midway whilst acting Kamijou, because he think he/she/it'll die whatever he does anyway, is an even scarier change for him if you ask me. That's all.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

you never said what you mean with unnecessary
so i made up my own speculations...

That's not an excuse, lv.7, you should have just followed the conversation.

Spoiler for No, Lv.7, that's not how it works:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

yes, what I THINK, i NEVER said anything else, why are you so angry?

Yes Lv.7, it's your opinion. So there's not point in arguing it with me when the point of my discussion with Mishima is that the Gods view it as unnecessary. Talk with the Gods, not me.
Btw, for my own take, I don't view it as "unnecessary", I view it as lame.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

Spoiler for you said spoiler but you didn't spoil it:

spoiler: your POV (point of view) not mine, letting a important char die and giving him a hugh development isnt cheap, it is a liked and common factor in such works, only because YOU dont like it and think of it as cheap doesnt mean that it is the same for everyone,

I THINK that making him into a char who looks at the big picture would make him much better, not a angsty-touma but imagine a touma who does not only see the girl before him but also the innocent beings who suffer because of his decision...
dealing with both problems....

A Touma that looks at the bigger picture is interesting and not angsty at all? Have you read NT5? That Touma kind of Touma was good for nothing, angsty, and fairly boring if you ask me.
Yes, Lv.7 it's my opinion and so is what you think is something "well liked and common" that should have been done in here. Anyway,

it is a liked and common factor

No, lv.7. Just because it's everywhere (which I already said), and just because you - + some people that likes cheap things- like it doesn't mean it's good and respectable writing.

It's cheap : "costing little labor or trouble". It's easy to write a major change in a character by using death/rape/etc, it's a lot harder when using other means ... that is even more true when you introduce a character just for that very obvious purpose.
Yes, it's especially cheaper because Othinus was just introduced and developed into a character that's close to Touma in one/two volume (and didn't even seem to have any long run purpose other than that until the other Gods were suddenly introduced). Which translates to : it's as if her only purpose from the start was to be killed because the author can't think of using one who was already there from the start = cheap. Yes, chaika cheap.

If you want death of greater quality whose purpose is to change Touma, kill someone who has other purpose that being killed, such as a character that has obvious great value to the plot in the long run. It's even better if you kill someone who the reader grew familiar to for a while as he/she/it as the same time becomes more important to Touma.

Try Index or something. She was the closest to Touma and whose death would kill him inside. No reader, no matter how hard they try, would deny_its_value/see_it coming/view_it_as_cheap. The reason is that she's a character that they knew for a laps of time longer that Touma did (10 years VS 5 months). She was always hyped as a character with a lot of potential to do many things as of now (regardless of the fact that she's literally Himegami 2.10), resulting in her death directly affecting the development of the plot as it affects Touma and the readers. Furthermore, it takes some titanium balls to do that. And have Othinus take her place.

You can also kill Mikoto or all his classmates at the same time to get the same effect. And have Othinus take their places.

You can also have him get even closer to Hamazura and Accelerator then have them both killed. Which is absolutely great because Hamazura is a bother to Aleister while Accel is important to him. Although, for that to have a meaning, you have to first explain why they are needed or are a hindrance. And then have Othinus take their places.

That is good death writing not "She actually spent 100years with him even if it's just one volume, I swear. So her death is meaningful even if she was just introduced. Look, she can even destroy the universe, which means her death is plot relevant even though her initial 50/50 state makes her just as much unable to perform that feat as being dead. ". Something that takes a lot of thoughts, time, efforts and balls.

And yes, it's my opinion. And yes, I'm forcing it on you. But I think it's for your own good.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by BossKagaxx

Any ship is fine as long as it's hilarious. Touma/Mikoto, Touma/Index, Touma/Othi, Touma/Kanzaki, Touma/Itsuwa, Touma/Kuroyoru, Touma/Lessar, Touma/Maria, Touma/Mugino, Touma/Thor, Touma/Accel (with all due respect to LevelSeven), Touma/Misaki, etc. heck even Touma/Mjolnir. Anything is within my area of acceptance!

though I personally liked Touma/Birdway *runs away*

what should i say now? ranting? screaming?
I think i will laugh my heart out of my chest
because I.Am.Famous XD

That's not an excuse, lv.7, you should have just followed the conversation.

i did, as far as my small human brain allowed it to me

And yes, it's my opinion. And yes, I'm forcing it on you. But I think it's for your own good.

i readed your opinion, your examples, your reasons...
now, i need to say that i will not argue against you because it would evolve into a pointless discussion where neither of us will convince the other one...

you see such a plot twist as cheap, i would say that such a action needs balls
I think that letting a char die and evolve the MC , wouldnt make it cheap, it is used in many storys but this (i repead myself) does not mean it is cheap, for you but not for me (maybe others too)....

and please dont take this as a insult but i think that the last sentence i quoted made me a bit mad your opinion is not more right than that of me, i dont know why you wrote the last sentence like that (maybe sleepy) but i will overlook that before i start to rant....

@dragon
I didnt know that such people like you (psychologists) can analyze people because of the things which they posted over the Internet into a thread/site which only allows people to talk/discuss over fictional things....
and if you insist that you can do it than dont take me as example for anything, you can do it with others the whole day but let me out of that BS (exspecially if it is somehow insulting against me)

[WilsonYu343]

I don't know about any of you but I think the most exciting thing we have is the epilogue. The epilogue open so many possibilities in the future of Toaru universe. I hope the author introduce each and every single one of the magic god that were hidden inside the "phase of the world that is closest to the pure world" Absolutely love the trolls of the magical gods, they are my favorite character by far (than again I love every single character that trolls the shit out of people especially power people like Alester.

One thing I did not like about this volume and the one thing I absolute hate is that after all the hardship they have gone through the author have to say slap me in the face and throw me out of the window because that is literally what he did to me. when Othinus died, that was one of the saddest scene and one of the most fore filling scene ever in Touma. I was thinking that even though Othinus died, it would be a great character developement for Touma who have for once in the whole freaken series fail to save "the smile of a little girl" (or a girl or any girl) who he knew so much about ( Lets be real Othinus and Touma have been through more together than all the freaken characters in the Toaru universe considering Touma and Othinus were trapped in together in NT 9 for like over 100 years ish in the endless loop of Othinus reality warping abilities). I do not classify her as a god considering that she is merely changing the phase of the world and not the "pure world" in itself.

But nooo, the author have to troll me and turn Othinus into a fairy and totally make everything that was building up from the NT 8 - 10 meaningless. I mean are you freaken serious why you troll me

But than again I also blame it on the magic gods in that hidden phase. Just because they didn't want Touma to "change" they (heavily implied that the High Priest of the group solve the problem already when they were discussing it in the epilogue) freaken save Othinus who was suppose to die and turn her in a 15cm midget. ( I mean i think that is what they did, no one know exactly why Othinus survived. biggest mind fuck ever)

I mean I love this volume but at the same time it pains me, its a freaken one hell of a roller coaster and by the time I read the epilogue I cried my heart out, laughed, and rage when I finally finish this volume. One hell of a night right!!!!

But seriously if Alester someone killed all the magic gods in that hidden phase, I would be so mad, I would be flipping my table over. I love and hate toaru, I love this god dam series.

p.s. everything in () are after thoughts XD

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by WilsonYu343

I do not classify her as a god considering that she is merely changing the phase of the world and not the "pure world" in itself.

Othinus's capable of reality warping on universal scale with close to no efforts, and you do not classify her as a god? That's quite a standard here...

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i readed ... -snip- (i repead myself) does not mean it is cheap, for you but not for me (maybe others too)....

LV.7 don't forget to quote the new person you're writing to. People will think that you're still addressing your posts to BossKagaxx instead of me.

Spoiler for Lv.7 Esper vs LV.0 lecture:

Fine, but at least give more concrete reasons and more grounded arguments about why you think it "isn't cheap" next time. I explained why I think it is, so at least try to legitimately argument yours to make things even.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

and please dont take this as a insult but i think that the last sentence i quoted made me a bit mad your opinion is not more right than that of me, i dont know why you wrote the last sentence like that (maybe sleepy) but i will overlook that before i start to rant....

I see. Then, first, I apologize if I hurt you in some way because of that. I will try to put it in an another manner next time.

Now, as I already said, it's for your own good. I even said it again above.
Of course my opinion isn't of greater value than yours, and that's the point : defend in a fair manner. I said that because I want you to actually fight back by honestly using your brain instead of pulling jokers like "an opinion is an opinion" card or the "let's just agree to disagree" card because I felt like you'd do it from your previous posts ... which you somehow did in the end. Not baiting, btw, honestly wanting fair debate between fellow Toaru readers.
Or if you prefer, it would go like this :

Originally Posted by Kamijou Touma's fake morals

It's true that it's just opinions, but there are times when the most subjective opinions need to be explained. One of them is when it's used to back up statements similar to "tch, it would have been better if that brat died" which are meant to be heard, debated and/or taken as reference by others.

If you don't think it's cheap, then back it up with solid arguments other than "I think it's not cheap, because I think so. Moreover, I like it and other people feels the same way". It's only after that that you can legitimately invoke the right to "just agree to disagree" all you want ; because in that particular case, both parties would have already given honest and weighted line of reasoning that the opponent stubbornly refuse to accept.

But if you insist on mindlessly voicing your thoughts here and there without even giving any concrete footings to them, then I'll have to destroy that illusion of yours.

Whatever, I can't force it on you if you don't want to, but I just wanted you to post better quality posts in the future so we can have more fun "massacring" each other with words.