Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Kitsu Breaker]

Deko x Shinka OTP FOR THE WIN!

People will be surprise how many crazy people have healthy, productive and good lifes. It´s not like been ´´normal´´ is responsable when the ´´anormal´´ people can have the samethings, Look how many actor, directors, artist, etc, and refuse the reality and have better live than us.

It´s not something easy but even a good job is not something easy

[Goggen]

I think a lot of people aren't really getting the point, if they think Rikka dropping her chuunibyou is altogether a good thing.

Look, Rikka isn't just being crazy with her chuunibyou behavior. It's become part of who she is, her identity. She's an unusual and eccentric girl, but she's not crazy. She's also still a young teenager, her personality will change and evolve over time as she grows up. It's not right to expect her to "snap out of it" over night. Her now acting "normal" isn't a good thing at all, because she's not being herself - she is surpressing her own personality in order to conform, in order to be what other people - specifically, her family - want her to be. She threw away all the stuff in her room not because that was a logical thing to do, but because her mother wanted her to. She visits her fathers grave, not because she herself wants to, but because "it would make mom happy". I don't want to go on a rant about Rikka's mother, but honestly, what kind of parent demands their child completetly shed their own identity and personality and become a robot?

By the way: I recommend watching the ED again and paying close attention to the lyrics. They suddenly make a whole lot more sense after this episode.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Random32

The series has taken a severe turn toward realistic since it's start.

I disagree. Tell me, what's realistic about a girl swinging her twin-tails around like bolas and using that hair as weapons? And that happened this episode.

Also, plenty of episodes in the first half of this anime were largely comedic. So saying that this series took a "severe turn" towards realistic "since the start" is massive over-exaggeration. This series became somewhat more realistic about half-way through the show (at the earliest), but has maintained some unrealistic elements all the way through.

1. Neither of them have "dealing with reality" as a major theme.

Sure they do. There are several difficult realities that Oreki is made to confront in Hyouka. Learning to deal with the dark truths behind a lot of mysteries is a common element in Hyouka.

I could make a similar defense of Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate, but it would be harder to do without getting specific in a spoiler-esque way, so I'll skip it here.

2. Clubs that don't do anything are common in anime. It's a nice happy fluffy fantasy. This is a series that deals a fair bit with reconciling reality with fantasy.

And yet, Rikka's Club was active right up through Episode 10, after the switch to more serious was made. Rikka's Club was never brought down by teachers thinking it was a "nice, happy, fluffy fantasy" but by Rikka's own choice.

This anime does not present clubs in any more serious a fashion than Hyouka or Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate do. So I don't think there's any legitimate basis to treat student clubs in this anime any different than you would in those two shows (and countless more beside).

What about the club in Kokoro Connect, by the way? You can't tell me that Kokoro Connect doesn't deal with some serious life issues, because it does. But KC's student club is totally nonsensical, truly nothing more than a place for a group of five friends to meet in an organized fashion and socialize together.

With those two in mind. May I suggest that, like how reality is crashing down on Rikka, reality is crashing down on Chuu2.

So much so that girls go around using their hair as bolas-weapons.

I don't think "reforming" is the right way to say it. "Reject and later bring it back just for fun" is better.

There's a reason why I'm using the word "reform". It's not just that the way Rikka uses chuunibyou has to change. It's also that the way Rikka herself perceives chuunibyou has to be reformed. In other words, I think it's important for her to be able to view the chuunibyou of her youth in at least a somewhat positive light, for reasons I'll get to in my reply to Klash.

In any event, perhaps "rehabilitate" would be the better word for me to use here.

Also, that aside, would she take enjoyment from it though? It's a coping mechanism that is closely related to family problems and her dead father. She has fun, but would she enjoy it later, or would it be a pretty nasty reminder?

Does she seem happy now to you? Does this episode put forward, or even hint, at anything that can believably replace what she had before? I certainly don't see it.

Rikka has gone from one extreme to the other. She needs to find a happy balance between the two, imo.

If she continues her chuunibyou antics, it shouldn't be more than roleplay distinct from her personal reality.

Well, unless she can turn it into a career, perhaps (like an acting or seiyu career, I mean). But yes, I basically agree.

To converse normally, either she has to fake accepting reality to them (bad), or accept reality. There isn't really a way around accepting reality.

She has to accept her father's death. I would argue that a big part of her was already getting reality beyond that. Remember how Yuuta used to translate Rikka's chuuni-speak into meaningful conversation? That's because Rikka's chuuni-speak often did refer to things that were happening in reality, and just dressed them up in colorful language.

That sort of dressing up is ultimately harmless, insofar as the reality behind it isn't lost sight of.

I don't see anything against turning her delusions off forever, what I see is against turning her delusional activity off forever, i.e., she should still have fun pretending, but it should be pretending. No where am I getting the vibe that Rikka should keep honestly searching of her father and running away from reality.

I completely agree with this (so no, we don't disagree here). Of course Rikka shouldn't honestly keep searching for her father.

But "chuunibyou" isn't just delusions. For most people, it's role-playing (like it was for Yuuta and Mori Summer). Yuuta wasn't delusional when he was Dark Flame Master, he was just having fun.

This is why I'm saying Rikka shouldn't have to turn off her chuunibyou persona forever. She clearly enjoyed much of it as simple fun (this is seen by how she frequently called one aspect or another of it "cool").

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Then, why the very same show does apply the sense of realism more often than not?

It doesn't to student clubs. And it doesn't to everything. And frankly, I would argue that at least half of the scenes in this anime are comedic rather than serious. And much of the comedy is obviously over-the-top slapstick comedy. Now, I'm skipping over some of the clubs-discussion since I think I covered most of the key points in my reply to Random32.

As for the characters, that's certainly another story.
Actually, if their relationship evolves beyond just being "partners in chuunibyou", that wouldn't be a problem which actually occurred there, as Rikka didn't see her relationship with Yuuta as "chuunibyou" after realizing she loves him.

You're not getting what I'm saying. Chuunibyou is ultimately what brought Rikka and Yuuta together. Nothing is going to change that. It's established history.

Suppose Rikka and Yuuta have a very successful relationship and end up married one day. Suppose on their 5th wedding anniversary they talk and reminisce about their first meetings with each other. Chuunibyou will inevitably come up. It is a core part of their romance narrative.

If Rikka has forever denied herself chuunibyou, and looks back on it as something entirely negative, then that means she can't cherish how her and Yuuta came together like she ought to be able to. She'll feel shame and lingering hurts when thinking back on what brought her and her husband together. That's an awful place to be, so I think it's highly beneficial for chuunibyou itself to become rehabilitated in Rikka's mind. And I think the only way that happens is if Rikka can divorce her chuunibyou from the death of her father. That admittedly might not be easy, but I think it can be done, and I think the way to do it lies directly through Yuuta, actually.

Past chuunibyou shouldn't just be a source of shame for Rikka. There's too many important friendships and romances now tied into it in Rikka's mind. These relationships are with people that Rikka needs in her life, so those relationships should be rooted in something that Rikka doesn't look upon with shame.

In fact, after her discussion with Shinka, she actually was fending off, so it isn't really connected that much anymore, otherwise she wouldn't be able to be around Yuuta in this episode like she did with Sanae.

I think you're badly misreading Rikka here. She's fending off Sanae, but it's obvious that it's deeply hurting her and numbing her to do so. Rikka is not very forceful with Sanae - nothing like how Yuuta was to Rikka in the early going of this anime. Rikka is really like a dead man walking whenever Sanae confronts her in this episode. That's because Rikka knows what she's losing here. She's losing a dear friend.

It doesn't have to be this way. And it shouldn't be.

Rikka cannot act like a middle schooler forever.

You know, we live in a world today where video games are more for adults than kids, where super hero comic books are frequently more for adults than kids, where anime is frequently more for adults than kids, and where comicons and animecons are typically more for adults than kids (and where chuunibyou runs rampant).

All of these things would be considered "for kids" at one time.

Times have changed, Klash. It's no longer that strange for an adult to embrace his or her "inner chuunibyou" from time to time. I'm honestly amazed this has to be stated on an anime message board where a large number of the members (including you and I) are over the age of 20.


Finally - We all agree that Rikka needs to move on from her father's passing. So why you and some others keep bringing that up as though I disagree with that is bizarre to me. We agree on that.

Where we disagree is that I think some of Rikka's chuunibyou was rooted in simply enjoying it and finding it "cool". That much can be preserved.

And while I see what you mean by "changing filament", Rikka needs an off switch regardless. She can't be in chuunibyou mode all the time, no matter what the core motivation behind it is. Even if Rikka's chuunibyou is rehabilitated, she'll still need to know how to switch back and forth between "chuunibyou" and "normal" (much like how Yuuta can now do that).

[Random32]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. Tell me, what's realistic about a girl swinging her twin-tails around like bolas and using that hair as weapons? And that happened this episode.

idk, maybe you laughed and took it as comic relief, but I personally took it as a sign of desperation and anger.

Also, plenty of episodes in the first half of this anime were largely comedic. So saying that this series took a "severe turn" towards realistic "since the start" is massive over-exaggeration. This series became somewhat more realistic about half-way through the show (at the earliest), but has maintained some unrealistic elements all the way through.

Sure they do. There are several difficult realities that Oreki is made to confront in Hyouka. Learning to deal with the dark truths behind a lot of mysteries is a common element in Hyouka.

I don't think its the same "facing reality" though. Hyouka dealt with the darker realities behind a lot of common day things. Chuu2 deals with accepting those common day things instead of creating a fantasy world to deal with one's inability to accept it.

In any event, perhaps "rehabilitate" would be the better word for me to use here.

I would agree.

Does she seem happy now to you? Does this episode put forward, or even hint, at anything that can believably replace what she had before? I certainly don't see it.

She lost a significant part of her, of course she isn't happy now. That doesn't mean that bringing it back will make her happy later.

How many people happily reminisce about that time when life hurt so bad they lost themselves in beer everynight?

But "chuunibyou" isn't just delusions. For most people, it's role-playing (like it was for Yuuta and Mori Summer). Yuuta wasn't delusional when he was Dark Flame Master, he was just having fun.

Yuuta did it because he had the minor delusion of thinking it was cool. Rikka did it because she couldn't accept the fact that her father was dead, and needed a way to run away from reality.

Sure the end result is similar, but Rikka's motives for her chuunibyou behavior are a lot worse.

Times have changed, Klash. It's no longer that strange for an adult to embrace his or her "inner chuunibyou" from time to time. I'm honestly amazed this has to be stated on an anime message board where a large number of the members (including you and I) are over the age of 20.

It's still strange. We are still a minority. Sure modern times has made our minority quite big, and new technologies allow us to connect to each other better, but that doesn't really stop "ordinary" people from looking down on us.

Example: I went to Wreck-It Ralph with a bunch of friends, and all the parents looked at us with "stay away from my kids you fucking pedos" expressions.

Example2: This is actually closer to Chuu2. LARPing, especially the fighting each other with swords and stuff type, is still regarded as weird, and LARPers are generally considered acceptable targets to make fun of.

[Dauerlutscher]

It's obvious for me that Rikka used her chuunibyou as a way to run from reality. Alcoholics and drug addict people do that too. They have two things in common with Rikka.
1- Running away from reality.
2- The addiction/delusion is controlling their lifes so much that they will have problems.
Rikkas currently behavior is comparable to the situation when you take the Alcohol/drugs away from the junkis. They can't run away from reality anymore and are forced to face reality. Manny of them can't handle that and get extremely mad or just depressed (Rikka).
And again. As long Rikka accepts reality and doesn't run away from it, and as long she clearly knows that her "delusions" are nothing more for her than just playing and she can stop with that anytime, than there is no problam if she has fun from time to time.
It's the same with alcohol. As long you know what you are doing, and only drink from time to time and only for fun and not to run away from reality, there is no problem with it. But the moment you use it to run away from reality, it becomes a huge problem.
And unlike Rikka, Yuuta and Shinka were never running away from reality and clearly know when it was time to turn their "delusions" off.

So what I think we wil see in the next eisode is that Rikka accepts reality completely. She won't use her chuunibyou to run away from it anymore and will realize that she doesn't need to completely stop with having fun. Somthink like that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

She also pushed those same friends away in the second half of this show when we were introduced to her family situation. Shinka didn't know, Kumin didn't know, and even Dekomori didn't know despite being friends with her longer than Yuuta has.

You write this as those it's strange. Many kids, and even many adults, compartmentalize in this way. Most people have sides to themselves, or personal background details, that they don't share with casual friends (which is all Shinka and Kumin are to Rikka).

This isn't something light that naturally wears off with time.

How many people endure significant lost at a young age? Now, how many of those people eventually move on from it? That's not to say there's no lingering effects from it throughout the rest of their lives, but people tend to move on, and find a way to be happy in life, nonetheless.

The key is having a good support structure in place (or creating one) that better enables a person to move on. Rikka never had that before, but she gained that through Yuuta and through her club (which is another reason why I view Rikka's club in a more positive light than you, Klash, and Random32 seem to).

Now, speaking of what she gained through Yuuta...

I don't think you understand how important it was that Yuuta was constantly there not just to support her, but to keep her in check as well.

No, I fully understand just how important Yuuta's support was to Rikka. I've stressed that many times on this thread.

I don't understand how I'm supposed to answer this question when you don't count her family, you don't count her teacher, and you don't even count her peers.

I count her teachers. Where did I say I don't count her teachers?

Also... why the hell would anybody equate her peers with her elders? Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

She clearly acted out during her first meeting with Yuuta in class, pretending that her eye and arm were hurting.

This would have been a problem, if most people caught on to the "pretending". But, IIRC, they didn't. IIRC, they thought that Rikka really did have health concerns.

Then, she acted out against every club she visited, towards peers that weren't part of her class that you could presume to be "used to her".

This is only a problem if the clubs go to the teachers about it. Perhaps they didn't, or at least if they did they didn't make a huge deal about it.

If you're discounting every non-serious example as well as serious cases with her family, then there's not much left to the show.

My point is that we don't see Rikka often acting out in class. In fact, we barely see it all. So I think some people on this thread are overstating the immediate problems caused by her chuunibyou. Presumably, Rikka wasn't acting out in class a lot... or she really would have been sent off to a shrink or something. She was likely just viewed as a bit weird and eccentric.

I don't understand how her dissatisfaction with being "normal" suddenly translates to going back to the way things were, where she had to turn every social situation, from meeting other people in clubs to dealing with the survival of her club to her own academic career into a battle in search for the Unseen Horizon.

I never said it did translate into that. I'm simply saying that she doesn't need to rid herself of chuunibyou entirely.

Originally Posted by Random32

idk, maybe you laughed and took it as comic relief, but I personally took it as a sign of desperation and anger.

There's a difference between "realistic" and "serious".

Case in point: Superman is obviously not realistic. I doubt any real world science will show you that going from living under a red son to living under a yellow sun will turn you into a god among men.

However, Superman is a serious character. His stories generally aren't made to make you laugh.


Like any fictional world, Chuunibyou's gets to determine what's normal within it. Those determinations limits the degree to which we can apply strict realism to the fictional world. They don't mean we can't take it seriously through.

Long story short, "serious" does not necessarily equal "realistic". If you want an anime example of this, just look at Shin Sekai Yori. That show is starkly serious, almost unrelenting so. Yet it has obvious fantasy elements to it.

I don't think its the same "facing reality" though. Hyouka dealt with the darker realities behind a lot of common day things. Chuu2 deals with accepting those common day things instead of creating a fantasy world to deal with one's inability to accept it.

So do you think Chuu2 is arguing that escapism is always wrong? Totally invalid?

I honestly doubt that. Not to mention the incredible irony of an anime show conveying such a message. It's like a line of heavily marketed and merchandised "Capitalism Sucks!" T-Shirts making quite a bit of capital for the owners and makers of the line.

She lost a significant part of her, of course she isn't happy now. That doesn't mean that bringing it back will make her happy later.

So what do you suggest then?

How many people happily reminisce about that time when life hurt so bad they lost themselves in beer everynight?

This is a deeply flawed analogy, so much so that it's frankly ridiculous.

You guys really ought to quit the absurd alcoholism and heroine analogies. They just make you look like your desperately grasping at straws to me.

Why is it so hard to think that Rikka should re-embrace some chuunibyou? In a rehabilitated format?

Yuuta did it because he had the minor delusion of thinking it was cool.

That's not a "delusion". That's an opinion. People can legitimately disagree on what's "cool" or not. There's nothing "delusional" about Yuuta and Rikka finding some chuunibyou items "cool".

That's no worse than somebody finding Superman's S-symbol or Iron Man's costume or Sephiroth's theme music "cool".

Sure the end result is similar, but Rikka's motives for her chuunibyou behavior are a lot worse.

The point that you and some others on this thread keep completely ignoring is that Rikka's embracing of chuunibyou had to do with more than her father alone. She also found chuunibyou "cool" in and of itself. How many times do I have to repeat myself here? The evidence is right in the anime, for crying out loud.

It's still strange. We are still a minority.

Yeah, that's why the Batman movies, the Transformer movies, the Avengers movie, and other such "geek culture" movies are selling so phenomenally well.

No, my friend, this is pop culture now.

Some people think it's strange, sure, but millions upon millions of people embrace it. Just keep your present company in mind, and it's all good.

I will say that at my place of work, men in their 20s and 30s commonly talk about comic books and video games. I daresay that a man in his 20s/30s that doesn't play video games at all is the exception, and not the rule, today.


As for LARPers, many view them as weird, sure. Does that stop them from functioning in society? I'm sure many LARPers are in decent jobs and/or have good stable families.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Goggen

I think a lot of people aren't really getting the point, if they think Rikka dropping her chuunibyou is altogether a good thing.

Look, Rikka isn't just being crazy with her chuunibyou behavior. It's become part of who she is, her identity. She's an unusual and eccentric girl, but she's not crazy. She's also still a young teenager, her personality will change and evolve over time as she grows up. It's not right to expect her to "snap out of it" over night. Her now acting "normal" isn't a good thing at all, because she's not being herself - she is surpressing her own personality in order to conform, in order to be what other people - specifically, her family - want her to be. She threw away all the stuff in her room not because that was a logical thing to do, but because her mother wanted her to. She visits her fathers grave, not because she herself wants to, but because "it would make mom happy". I don't want to go on a rant about Rikka's mother, but honestly, what kind of parent demands their child completetly shed their own identity and personality and become a robot?

By the way: I recommend watching the ED again and paying close attention to the lyrics. They suddenly make a whole lot more sense after this episode.

I wouldn't make that assumption about her mother. What Rikka did this episode might be the result of her mother's pressure. But it could also be Touka's. Or Yuuta's. Or herself. Or, most likely, a combination of all of them. It seems to me that throwing away stuffs and visiting the grave are all Rikka's call this time. I think putting the blame on her mother for the zombie Rikka is jumping to conclusion at this point.

Much to my chagrin, we still know too little about her mother. First I assumed she just abandoned her children, then in the light of last episode it seems like she did try her best to stay with them, but Rikka's rejection of her was too strong that she thought it's better to put some distance. I think that's a fair decision. Maybe not the best, but it doesn't seem to me like she is a bad parent. I really wish for the last episode to put some lights on this topic.

I don't have much to add to the great discussion about how good or bad dropping her chuunibyou altogether is, but here's why I think that's a necessary bitter pill for the current Rikka, at least in the short term: Her chuunibyou is like the blood vessel to the tumor that is the issue of dealing with her father's death. It is unavoidable that some of the vessels in the normal tissue has to be cut off. It's ok to let the good part grows back later, but right now this measure is necessary.

[Triple_R]

Even though I've wrote a lot on the chuunibyou debate, I will admit that I feel like I haven't quite hit on the full, core essence for why I feel and think the way that I do on it.

Then I saw papermario13689's avatar, and it hit me like a ton of moe.



I want that Rikka back. I want that lively, energetic, fun-loving, "sparkle in her eyes" Rikka. And I think it's very clear that certain aspects of chuunibyou bring this out of Rikka like nothing else can.

I want Rikka to smile again.

[Random32]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You write this as those it's strange. Many kids, and even many adults, compartmentalize in this way. Most people have sides to themselves, or personal background details, that they don't share with casual friends (which is all Shinka and Kumin are to Rikka).

You're forgetting Dekomori. Until Yuuta, her best friend.

This would have been a problem, if most people caught on to the "pretending". But, IIRC, they didn't. IIRC, they thought that Rikka really did have health concerns.

Was Rikka pretending or delusional?

I never said it did translate into that. I'm simply saying that she doesn't need to rid herself of chuunibyou entirely.

From reading around of what you have said. I think there is some misunderstanding between us all.

So why not a nice table?
Rikka's

Chuunibyou actions	Okay
Chuunibyou delusional reality	Not okay
Motivations for delusional reality	Really not okay

There's a difference between "realistic" and "serious".

Case in point: Superman is obviously not realistic. I doubt any real world science will show you that going from living under a red son to living under a yellow sun will turn you into a god among men.

However, Superman is a serious character. His stories generally aren't made to make you laugh.

Even with that distinction made, I don't really think that Dekomori's actions are not realistic. She's breaking down and is trying to cope, sorta like Rikka, but more temporary.

So do you think Chuu2 is arguing that escapism is always wrong? Totally invalid?

I think Chuu2's point is that you shouldn't run away from reality. That isn't "escapism is always wrong," it's "escapism shouldn't be used as a coping mechanism."

You guys really ought to quit the absurd alcoholism and heroine analogies. They just make you look like your desperately grasping at straws to me.

They are all coping mechanisms. As for seriousness, I think that losing grasp of reality completely is nearly as bad as alcoholism.

Let's say someone nukes my hometown. I can't accept reality, and run around acting like the event never happened, and that all my emails back to my family are not being replied to because of a vast government conspiracy, and am dedicated to seeing my family again.

That is exactly what Rikka is doing. Making up a reality where her father is still alive, then proceeding to reject the one around her in favor of it.

It's not hurting my physical body like drugs would, but it's still very very bad.

Why is it so hard to think that Rikka should re-embrace some chuunibyou? In a rehabilitated format?

I think Rikka can, and it wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure that it would work out well. Depends on her really.

That's not a "delusion". That's an opinion. People can legitimately disagree on what's "cool" or not. There's nothing "delusional" about Yuuta and Rikka finding some chuunibyou items "cool".

Okay wrong word choice on my part. However, Rikka's chuunibyou wasn't just finding something cool, it was a rejecting reality.

Yeah, that's why the Batman movies, the Transformer movies, the Avengers movie, and other such "geek culture" movies are selling so phenomenally well.

All those are mainstream now. Call me back when Kodomo no Jikan sells phenomenally well.

Some people think it's strange, sure, but millions upon millions of people embrace it. Just keep your present company in mind, and it's all good.

That's with everything. I think people obsessed with sports are weird.

The problem is when the people that look down on it so greatly outnumber those who don't. Then "keeping present company in mind" means "don't do it at any place where it isn't you and your best buds alone."

As for LARPers, many view them as weird, sure. Does that stop them from functioning in society? I'm sure many LARPers are in decent jobs and/or have good stable families.

I was never saying that they can't function in society.

I'm saying that boldly associating yourself with LARPing will probably get you a lot more weird looks than friends.

Maybe LARPing isn't weird enough for you for my example. So how about this one, lolicon. Would you suggest that I should openly tell people irl, "I like looking at cartoons of underage girls as it turns me on a lot."

[-Necromancer-]

Like triple R above me says. I'd prefer the old rikka back D: the Moe and evergetic version of her is so cool yet cute xD and together with the boy ( i never remember the boys names?

[Goggen]

Originally Posted by Hyper

I wouldn't make that assumption about her mother. What Rikka did this episode might be the result of her mother's pressure. But it could also be Touka's. Or Yuuta's. Or herself. Or, most likely, a combination of all of them. It seems to me that throwing away stuffs and visiting the grave are all Rikka's call this time. I think putting the blame on her mother for the zombie Rikka is jumping to conclusion at this point.

I don't know if I'm really putting the blame for zombie Rikka on her mother. That work was done before she got there. What I'm saying is Rikka is basically substituting her own personality with a fake one that is what she believes her mother wants to see. But it doesn't seem to be just a baseless belief on her part, since apparently her mother is specifically asking her to do stuff like getting rid of the chuuni related stuff in her room. I suppose we don't really know to what extent her mother is influencing her current behavior, but she at the very least makes up a significant part of the reason for it.

Originally Posted by Random32

Was Rikka pretending or delusional?

I'll reply to this specifically, because I think there's a lot of confusion about this point.

Rikka is not delusional, nor was she ever.

I mean, yeah, she was "delusional" in a joke-y sense of the word, but she didn't really believe her own delusions. She was aware that her make-believe was just that - though she would obviously never admit it, as that would break character. Sure she got caugth up in her own fantasies to an annoying degree, but it was still just make-believe. So yes, Rikka was pretending. And if that wasn't clear before from those moments where she briefly breaks character or "cheats" in her chuunibyou rants by filling in parts of her sentences with "blah blah blah" when she couldn't think of anything cool on the fly, for instance, it should certainly be clear after this episode. If she was truly delusional, she wouldn't have been able to just switch it off like that.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Random32

You're forgetting Dekomori. Until Yuuta, her best friend.

I'm not forgetting her. However, do we know precisely how much Dekomori knew about Rikka's personal background?

Was Rikka pretending or delusional?

It honestly doesn't matter from the perspective of the other students. Either way, they thought that Rikka really was feeling physical pain and needed medical attention. So it's not like this "acting out" came across as such.

From reading around of what you have said. I think there is some misunderstanding between us all.

So why not a nice table?
Rikka's

I think I've been quite clear on all of these.

My answers:

Chuunibyou actions	Beneficial
Chuunibyou delusional reality	Not okay, if she truly thinks it's real
Motivations for delusional reality	Not okay

Even with that distinction made, I don't really think that Dekomori's actions are not realistic.

Her emotional state may be realistic, but what she does with her hair isn't.

I think Chuu2's point is that you shouldn't run away from reality. That isn't "escapism is always wrong," it's "escapism shouldn't be used as a coping mechanism."

I honestly think that Chuu2's "point" might be something different than this. It's point may well be that it's fine for people to continue to embrace chuunibyou as a way to bring added happiness and fun into their life.

They are all coping mechanisms.

No, not necessarily. Loads of people drink a lot just for fun. Same with heroine use. They may turn into coping mechanisms, or they may just be bad habits that people engage in for fun.

As for seriousness, I think that losing grasp of reality completely is nearly as bad as alcoholism.

Good thing Rikka never lost grasp of reality completely then, for reasons I've already stated.

Okay wrong word choice on my part. However, Rikka's chuunibyou wasn't just finding something cool, it was a rejecting reality.

My point is that the "rejecting reality" part can be separated from the "I just find this cool" part.

You can dress up as a Starfleet Officer, and playact as one, without seriously thinking that Scotty is about to beam you up.

All those are mainstream now.

Which is exactly my point!

The following are now mainstream for adult viewers:

1) A movie about a man who dresses up like a bat to fight against a psychotic serial killing clown.

2) Movies based on a 80s children's cartoon series and popular toy line. Big giant robots in disguise!

3) A movie about superpowered people in colorful costumes fighting against a trickster god. Gamma radiation. Super Soldier Serum. The whole nine yards.

I don't know about you, but that sounds like "Chuuni-style" entertainment to me.

Call me back when Kodomo no Jikan sells phenomenally well.

Your shifting goalposts here. That's poor form in a debate.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Goggen

I don't know if I'm really putting the blame for zombie Rikka on her mother. That work was done before she got there. What I'm saying is Rikka is basically substituting her own personality with a fake one that is what she believes her mother wants to see. But it doesn't seem to be just a baseless belief on her part, since apparently her mother is specifically asking her to do stuff like getting rid of the chuuni related stuff in her room. I suppose we don't really know to what extent her mother is influencing her current behavior, but she at the very least makes up a significant part of the reason for it.

I wouldn't even assume that her mother makes up a significant part. Here is one scenario I can think of that make her mother should get almost no blame for the current Rikka: Unlike Touka or her grandparents which she use chuunibyou-speech, Rikka completely refused to talk to her mother after her father's death. So when Rikka talked to her again last episode, she is overjoyed. You can imagine a hugging scene and stuff. Rikka interpreted that as "Her mother is happy that she took off her eye patch and colored contact and talked normally." But that was not true--her mother was happy solely because her daughter finally talked to her again. Yes, she will be happy if Rikka is graduated from her chuunibyou, but that was not her concern currently. It is Rikka who assumed that her mother is unhappy with her chuunibyou-self.

Now that scenario takes a lot of assumptions, so I wouldn't argue that's the case. My point is we know too little to put any blame on her mother. Also, while it's true that those around her certainly deserve some of the blames, I personally think the zombie Rikka is the result of she doing it to herself mostly. Still, I recognize that is a subjective take on my part.

Originally Posted by Goggen

I'll reply to this specifically, because I think there's a lot of confusion about this point.

Rikka is not delusional, nor was she ever.

I mean, yeah, she was "delusional" in a joke-y sense of the word, but she didn't really believe her own delusions. She was aware that her make-believe was just that - though she would obviously never admit it, as that would break character. Sure she got caugth up in her own fantasies to an annoying degree, but it was still just make-believe. So yes, Rikka was pretending. And if that wasn't clear before from those moments where she briefly breaks character or "cheats" in her chuunibyou rants by filling in parts of her sentences with "blah blah blah" when she couldn't think of anything cool on the fly, for instance, it should certainly be clear after this episode. If she was truly delusional, she wouldn't have been able to just switch it off like that.

You are probably right, but the anime-Rikka, to me, comes out as dangerously closed to truly delusional, or on the way to be. I actually believed that she was not delusional since I heard her said "wait for me to put the contact back on" in the first episode. But after the event at the beach, I am actually not sure, especially when the situation is directly related to her father's death. It is one of those "pretending long enough and you forget which is your real self". I think Touka for one probably had a huge sigh of relieve when she saw that Rikka can still just switch it off. That she was not too late.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Hyper

But after the event at the beach, I am actually not sure, especially when the situation is directly related to her father's death. It is one of those "pretending long enough and you forget which is your real self". I think Touka for one probably had a huge sigh of relieve when she saw that Rikka can still just switch it off. That she was not too late.

It's more like it has become part of her persona. She started at a very young age and like it or not it is part of her identity. When she plays or Dekomori or Yuuta that is her "real self". This isn't like KC's Iori Nagase, where she wore different persona's throughout her life to appease everyone.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Elestia

It's more like it has become part of her persona. She started at a very young age and like it or not it is part of her identity. When she plays or Dekomori or Yuuta that is her "real self". This isn't like KC's Iori Nagase, where she wore different persona's throughout her life to appease everyone.

I actually think of someone like Koizumi when I mentioned the confused identity. Anyway, I didn't mean to say that she has trouble with her identity or personality, but that she start having trouble with recognizing what is reality. It is ok to play around, but it's not ok to forget that she is playing around.

[erneiz_hyde]

Spoiler for Umineko comparison:

For this episode, Rikka=Ange
Sanae=Maria
The Club=Marriage Sorciere

A few episodes earlier, Rikka=Maria with Touka=Rosa.

Also, how Rikka was unfazed at all Sanae's fantasy attacks screams "Endless Nine" though very different in tone

As far as Japanese media is concerned, I have yet to see a case where 'chunibyou' actually accounts to a character being an actual delusional, rather than an elaborate make believe or just pretending (look at Okabe).

It may become an escape mechanism, but so can many other things. Without even looking at the most notorious examples of alcoholism and drugs, there's: gaming, reading, watching, etc. So many 'fun' things can become an escape mechanism if done out of proportion. I'd say so is the case of chuunibyou. It isn't an inherently 'bad' thing.

And such, I can't say I condone to throwing all of Rikka's chunibyou out of the window. And deep down, a part of Yuuta also thinks so, but he is now deeply conscious about how 'irresponsible' for him to say that to Rikka. OTOH, Rikka also knows she shouldn't cold turkey her habits, but she needs Yuuta to confirm to that (as Sanae alluded). And so we arrive at the current ぎこちない situation, the hooks they try to tie keeps missing each other. I think there is only one way the narrative could go from here (because there is only one that keeps recurring throughout different series I could think of that leads to a somewhat happy ending).

To quote Keima, "I can already see the ending!"

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Hyper

I actually think of someone like Koizumi when I mentioned the confused identity. Anyway, I didn't mean to say that she has trouble with her identity or personality, but that she start having trouble with recognizing what is reality. It is ok to play around, but it's not ok to forget that she is playing around.

I can accept that she couldn't recognize the reality of her father's death, thus the whole Ethereal Horizon pitch from Rikka. But her speech throughout the entire series implies she is very aware of the situation around her. How she interacts with others also show that she is more anchored to reality than people really allude to.

Others have already pointed out that Rikka's imaginations doesn't interfere with her regular school life. Nor have there been any hints or clues that points to past incidents where her behavior has gotten her into serious trouble.

[Triple_R]

Elestia makes some excellent points here.

I think that chuunibyou has become such a large part of Rikka's life that it has become inextricably mingled with Rikka's personal sense of self. Liking this play-acting, liking these "magical" items, liking this colorful Okabe Rintarou-esque terminology and mannerisms, that is part of who Rikka is, like it or not.

Completely divorcing her from that is naturally turning her into a shell of her former self, because so much of what made her her has now been removed despite her genuine fondness for it.


And yeah, we're not talking about an one year fad, we're talking about something she's been since a very young age and has embraced for several years.

It would be like if somebody told my 14-year old self that I had to stop reading comic books, stop dreaming about super hero adventures I used to come up with, and stop all of that sort of "geek" stuff. It would have left me a shell of my former self too, with life seeming much more dreary.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by Elestia

I can accept that she couldn't recognize the reality of her father's death, thus the whole Ethereal Horizon pitch from Rikka. But her speech throughout the entire series implies she is very aware of the situation around her. How she interacts with others also show that she is more anchored to reality than people really allude to.

Others have already pointed out that Rikka's imaginations doesn't interfere with her regular school life. Nor have there been any hints or clues that points to past incidents where her behavior has gotten her into serious trouble.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

[In an interview]
Ishihara: I paid attention to keep the chuunibyou theme and to illustrate the comedic elements. Having experienced it myself, I have some pretty embarrassing chuunibyou moments. (laughs) If I tried to portray that element seriously, this story would cross over to become darker, so I tried to portray it more comically by making the chuunibyou moments humorous.

I believe this is why we never see Rikka got in trouble because of her chuunibyou--the staff intentionally avoid showing those. I vaguely remember that they even brought up something about trying to make Rikka's classmate tolerate her behaviors more than usual. I cannot find the source though so I might be mistaken. Even if we ignore or decide that Ishihara comment doesn't apply, I think the fact that she has trouble making friends before meeting Yuuta also said a lot about her trouble. Not to mention that every flashback of Yuuta and Nibutani chuunibyou-day is portrayed as very lonely.

I agree with you that her interaction, especially in the first half of the series, show that she is just having fun. But it's different when it directly involve her father. She comes out to me as "clinging" to her imagination rather than playing with it in some situations, which is dangerous IMO. Problem is, the "situations" included anything involving her family. And she cannot avoid her family, especially now that she'll live with her mother.

My opinion is that chuuni-Rikka is fine. It is what defined her character, both in-universe and as an anime character. However, right now she is using it to avoid accepting her father's death and it is pushing her toward being truly delusional. She can has her fantasy back when she dealt with that issue. And consider everything, I agree with almost everyone here that it is practically guaranteed that she will have it back next episode. What I'm looking forward to see is "how".

[Dop]

In next week's episode, Yuuta goes around department stores telling all the little children queuing at Santa's Grotto that Santa isn't real.

From the toned down colour palette at the start of the episode to pretty much all Rikka's appearances you can see that she's been knocked back and lost her joie de vivre.
In a way she's in the situation Yuuta was in at the start, packing everything up and trying to be "normal", but this time it's not really of her own volition, she's just trying very hard.