Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[I Fail at Life]

Below represent's how each character is in, GSD.

Athrun -->
Kira --> *blank stare*
What Cagalli has become in Destiny --> and --> ,
Lacus -->
Shinn --> ,

I only did the Main, Main ones. Agree or Disagree?

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Hmmm....nope, seems about accurate. XD

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

He killed and murdered good people and even nearly killing his lover and her sister....

The good people, as in the Atlantic Federation-influenced Earth Alliance?

As for Athrun and Meyrin, Shinn did hesitate, and in the TV Movies, he shed a tear, as if he was thinking, "I'm sorry".

Also, was it shown that he had some second thoughts about the Destiny Plan, before Rey prodded him?

As for Luna, at that point, AFAIK, she no longer had feelings for Athrun.

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Ok there are a lot of things that can be said about Shinn, but he is not a flip-flopper..

I'm talking about Athrun being a flip-flopper.




Back to the Shinn question: I think what motivated Shinn was him seeing Freedom during his escape from Orb, and feeling that it was responsible for the deaths of his family, despite the still-canon explanation of "crossfire between Freedom and Calamity, and leaving it unclear on who fired first".

What they should have done is to have the SFreedom served as more motivational fodder for Shinn.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Banpresto ...

... has nothing to do with SEED Destiny.

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

The difference is is that at least most other Gundam protagonists knew and accepted that it was peace through war like a lot of wars throughout history.

It wasn't some ultra-idealistic view of "everyone understanding eachother" or "no more fighting" or anything like that. And if they DO take that route, they make the outcome pretty realistic like The 08th MS Team where, in the end, it started AND ended with just Shiro and Aina really going for it, with even those closest to them thinking they were a bit crazy. Or simply changing things up like earlier 00 did with them doing their interventions, but with the full intention of becoming the targets by getting the world united to fight against them rather than continuing to fight amongst themselves.

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

1.) Kira and the others foolishly believed that THAT war would possibly be the end of ALL wars. (Much like how the Allies thought that WWI was such a thing.) Not so much with the others. They had the hope to end THAT war, but they weren't SO naive to think that their fighting would end it ALL though. Especially some others who have witnessed the darkness and corruption on each side.

I don't know who you're talking about, but whoever it is, it's not Kira Yamato from SEED and SEED Destiny.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

The good people, as in the Atlantic Federation-influenced Earth Alliance?

I meant Orb. He never hesitate to strict against a nation who he once called home.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I meant Orb. He never hesitate to strict against a nation who he once called home.

In other words:

• Against the Earht Alliance = Face-ish
• Against Orb = Heelish
• When Orb is harboring an EA official (Djibril) = Something is rotten in Denmark

Going off-topic, despite it being superior to the anime, video game adaptations of CE works are still non-canon, according to Sunrise's Gundam Canon Policy.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Which is too bad considering unofficial works tend to do a better job at SEED/SEED Destiny and other AUs than even the animes themselves, lol.

[Mad Pierrot]

1.) Kira and the others foolishly believed that THAT war would possibly be the end of ALL wars.

Kira in the end accepted that wars were inevitable to mankind which is why he becomes a regular soldier at ZAFT. Just like every soldier he will fight to avoid conflicts rather than retiring as he did post SEED. However, he only fought in Destiny for Orb's sake in contrast to what everybody says he was against everybody. In the last episodes he just faced Durandal for all that thing about the Destiny Plans and those consecutive murder attempts ZAFT made.

I think what motivated Shinn was him seeing Freedom during his escape from Orb, and feeling that it was responsible for the deaths of his family, despite the still-canon explanation of "crossfire between Freedom and Calamity, and leaving it unclear on who fired first".

The Destiny movies actually added a flashback that Shinn has. He pretty much becomes shock but my guess is that he saw himself as the guy putting civilians in danger.

I think all versions of Super Robot Wars emulated the same ending of SEED Destiny with minor optional changes typical in RPGs. SRW Z did a 180 turn degree to the story where everybody behaves differently. It made the biggest nonsensical scene from Destiny even more nonsensical. Another Century's Episode R made its own post Destiny story where Shinn is now working alongside Kira and Athrun. Lol at Shinn using "san" with Kira.

[Destined_Fate]

Eh, they built it up very well in Z and L for Shinn not to end up like his TV version. Z even has Stella canonically living as per Z2.2 ending showed if you unlocked the True End Path so Shinn had far less reason to hate Kira even if Kira was still a major jerk.

L even overwrites the scene where Shinn takes out the Freedom. Again, Stella canonically lives(though Shinn must lower her down to get her as a pilot) so Shinn doesn't hate Kira. The Minerva and Shinn than let the Archangel go free instead of Shinn one shotting Kira.

Feel bad for Shinn x Stella fans since even when she's canonically alive in these games she isn't pushed as a romantic interest for Shinn, it's always Lunamaria no matter what. Rey on the other hand gets shipped with Stella by Banpresto though. So there's that.

[kaito-kid]

what does canonically mean?

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

what does canonically mean?

Means "true" in terms of the official story as it really happened. Like Stellar dying in SEED Destiny is "canon". Events saying otherwise in other media is "non-canon".

"Non-canon" being events entirely separate, made-up, that don't take place in the actual, official story.

[kaito-kid]

ok.. In that case, isn't the fact that Stella died ehmm.. 'canon' ?

[Destined_Fate]

Canon doesn't have to refer to the Original Story, it just has to refer to the material on hand(In game canon being its own canon while TV/Movie is "Official" canon). The games use their own "canon" and treats some things from the story as "non-canon" for their game. Such as Stella living is canon for SRW Z Saga and L even though in the show/movies Stella is canonically dead.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

It can depend on point of view too, I suppose.

When I think "(non-)canon", in this case, I think when pertaining to the stuff the material is connected to. In this case, SEED Destiny. All the different things in the games, mangas, novels, etc are "non-canon" to me. Only the stuff actually in the original material is "canon".

But thinking in terms of each individual piece of media, yeah, stuff will be "(non-)canon" in that sense too.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

It can depend on point of view too, I suppose.

When I think "(non-)canon", in this case, I think when pertaining to the stuff the material is connected to. In this case, SEED Destiny. All the different things in the games, mangas, novels, etc are "non-canon" to me. Only the stuff actually in the original material is "canon".

But thinking in terms of each individual piece of media, yeah, stuff will be "(non-)canon" in that sense too.

If anything, the different canons are something fans made up to avoid going crazy over changes in the sidestories that doesnt add up with the original material.

As bandai(or was it sunrise?) stated, animated works are " canon " (i don't remember what they actually said, but something like that) while the rest isnt, as in

What the Animated works say > Non-animated works say, if a conflict in material appears, the animated works is always the " truth "

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Yeah, I recall that being said too. Though, I believe official encylopedias and such were counted too (in terms of things like MS specs and such)

Even if the works of other games/manga/novels/etc doesn't exactly conflict with anything in the official timeline; still not canon. (ex. Crossbone Gundam.)

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Even if the works of other games/manga/novels/etc doesn't exactly conflict with anything in the official timeline; still not canon. (ex. Crossbone Gundam.)

Yes, I agree. but this is why I don't understand what Destined_Fate is talking about..

[Mad Pierrot]

Rey on the other hand gets shipped with Stella by Banpresto though. So there's that.

...What? Man I didn't even link those two once. Still, I think there is even less Shinn X Stella in most games and the films. The games and the films make Shinn think of her as a younger sister.

There are times when canon is really questionable if the author from the original work is responsible for new ones works such the Gundam Evolve OVAs changed the fate of Hathaway or the Zeta movies that changed the downer ending or the new Evangelion movies.

[Washu-Chan]

And here are the CE canon statuses, with newer versions of similar works taking priority:

• Primary: Seed (original), Seed TV Movies, Destiny (original), Destiny Final Plus, Destiny TV Movies, Seed HD Remaster, Destiny HD Remaster (possibly)
• Secondary: Astray mangas, Stargazer
• Tertiary: Suit CDs
• Alternate: Manga adaptations of Seed/GSD, Destiny: The Edge, Seed/GSD video games (including the SRW games)

I think that Sunrise's official policy concerning Gundam canon is that only animated works are canon, and everything else is "expanded universe" material. I know that it applies to UC, but does it apply to AU shows (G, Wing, X, Turn A, Seed, 00, AGE)?

[monster]

If we go by that classification, Stargazer should be in the "primary" section.