Macross Frontier - Episode 07 Discussion / Poll

[4Tran]

I replied to the ratings posts in the Generic thread.

Episode 7 is one of the better space battle episodes I've watched in a long time. The choreography and background are just top-notch. I still prefer episode 5 to it, but that's just because the latter's more to my taste. Originally, I thought that the combat would cover the entire episode, so there'd be no way for Ranka and Sheryl to participate, and the solution the creators came up with worked excellently. The continued use of juxtaposition of song and combat is put together to superb use yet again.

Other notes:
- The most maneuverable fighter in the episode was Brera's Valkyrie, and it's capabilities were highlighted by giving it herky-jerky motion rather than the more graceful maneuvers of the other fighters. It's possibly the first time I've seen it done like that in a long time, and it feels just right.

- I love Ranka's cellphone more and more. I can't believe that the creators can keep coming up with new ways to make it look cool. This time, it was using one of the "arms" as an earpiece.

- Seatbelts are a good idea; and I wonder why more science fiction shows don't realize this.

- Ranka liked the concert more than I would have expected, and I think that this tells a lot about her character. Furthermore, for the very first time, she served as a support for someone else. The scene of her connection to Sheryl wasn't Newtype telepathy or anything like that - it was merely a case of Sheryl saying something that only Ranka knew the true meaning of. The shot isolating the two of them from the rest of the concert's purpose was to accentuate their understanding: they were the only two (aside from Grace) who knew that the SMS crew was fighting at the same time.

- Sheryl's brief display of vulnerability was a nice touch as well.

- What we saw should have only been a small part (albeit the most important) of the larger battle - there were about half a dozen NUNS carriers present as well. The SMS was awfully quick to deploy and use reaction weapons. Then again, Macross cannons do more damage, so I'm not surprised that they were used as freely as they were.

- It's a bit of a shame to see Macross Quarter go into melee combat, but that's sort of to be expected. I agree that there should have been more Queadluun-Rea action, but there's plenty of time for that.

Originally Posted by cerrian

It would be awesome to see a full blown war depicted with large scale fleet engagements in Frontier. Unfortunately I highly doubt we're going to see it because it'll require the series to shift its storytelling perspective towards a more strategic/command level perspective which would allow the audience to get a better grasp of the scope of the conflict. If Macross had like 10 more characters and at least 12 more episodes, then I could see that happening.

The biggest problem with that is that while the Macross universe has had its share of large-scale battles, they've generally taken a backseat to the more personal stories. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something to that nature by the end of the show.

Originally Posted by mikesince83

I understand the need to conform to tradition, and for all I know Macross was the series that originated the concept of giant space mechas (I'm not a expert on Macross history). It's just not my thing. I don't mind the smaller mechs transforming, in fact it's a neat concept and implementation.

SDF Macross was the first show to my knowledge to feature spaceships which transformed into mecha, and it was probably the first show to feature fighters transforming into mecha as well.

Other firsts: the Itano Circus (also known as the Macross Missile Massacre) and bridge bunnies.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well the first and last time we saw a mellee attack of a Macross was the famous Daedalus Attack of the SDF-1 Macross, which used a concentrated pinpoint barrier punch.

[Wesley84]

...The Vajra Mothership looks like the plant from Little Shop of Horrors.

[cerrian]

Here's some food for thought:

Do you realize that within these first 7 episodes, we have had 6 different insert songs. With the exception of ep. 2, there has been a unique insert song for each episode. At this rate it'll be more of a bloody musical than a mecha show.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by cerrian

Here's some food for thought:

Do you realize that within these first 7 episodes, we have had 6 different insert songs. With the exception of ep. 2, there has been a unique insert song for each episode. At this rate it'll be more of a bloody musical than a mecha show.

Shhh. Don't jinx it. It's happened before in Macross and can easily happen again.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by cerrian

Here's some food for thought:

Do you realize that within these first 7 episodes, we have had 6 different insert songs. With the exception of ep. 2, there has been a unique insert song for each episode. At this rate it'll be more of a bloody musical than a mecha show.

Six? It'd be seven if you count the different covers for What 'Bout My Star, and eight if you count SMS Squadron Song ~ That Girl is an Alien. If you go as far as to count the Nyan Nyan song, that'd be nine. It's obviously Satelight's way of making the singles and OST as irresistible as they can (and it seems to be working).

On a different note, it seems possible that 1 & 7 and 2-6 were all chosen for a specific reason than to give the first half one ED, and the second half another. I wonder if they'll switch back to Diamond Crevasse or go with yet another song.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Episode 7 is one of the better space battle episodes I've watched in a long time. The choreography and background are just top-notch. I still prefer episode 5 to it, but that's just because the latter's more to my taste. Originally, I thought that the combat would cover the entire episode, so there'd be no way for Ranka and Sheryl to participate, and the solution the creators came up with worked excellently. The continued use of juxtaposition of song and combat is put together to superb use yet again.

Taking turns at bat and the apparent ease of it sapped my interest in the battle. I thought the first person perspective from Alto as he watched Ozma blow away everything in front of him was interesting though. It was like being there yourself.

Some seem to think Ranka and Sheryl caused the battle to be lacking. I don't really believe there was all that much they could've added to it, but I also see how the parts with Ranka and Sheryl weren't really needed since we're bound to cover the same ground again at a later time. Basically "No hard feelings, and I'm still a fan of yours".

Episode Four's Jutaposition is still the best one by far. Tossing in the heart made by drive trails really makes it hard to top.

- The most maneuverable fighter in the episode was Brera's Valkyrie, and it's capabilities were highlighted by giving it herky-jerky motion rather than the more graceful maneuvers of the other fighters. It's possibly the first time I've seen it done like that in a long time, and it feels just right.

And it's possible he has two others just like it. I think the last time I saw something like that was in a video game. Also, I believe it implies that not only are they manueverable, but they're really tough as well, since cutting corners like that and the instanteous acceleration implies a very high number of Gs. Assuming the fighter still has to be built to withstand them, it'll be very hardy indeed.

- Seatbelts are a good idea; and I wonder why more science fiction shows don't realize this.

Half the time there aren't even any seats.

- Sheryl's brief display of vulnerability was a nice touch as well.

For whatever it may have really meant. She is a performer afterall, and I wouldn't have put it past her to exaggerate a bit. You know, for the fans, for the stage.

- What we saw should have only been a small part (albeit the most important) of the larger battle - there were about half a dozen NUNS carriers present as well. The SMS was awfully quick to deploy and use reaction weapons. Then again, Macross cannons do more damage, so I'm not surprised that they were used as freely as they were.

It's hard to tell, since the attacking force was made up of entirely strikecraft. The SMS and Spacy might have outnumbered the Vajra ten to one for all we know. Just would have been nice for dialogue to fill in the gaps a bit...

- It's a bit of a shame to see Macross Quarter go into melee combat, but that's sort of to be expected. I agree that there should have been more Queadluun-Rea action, but there's plenty of time for that.

The bigger shame is that apparently it was either transform and rush in directly or run away altogether. As if Quarter being there single handiedly decided the outcome. Just more proof that I shouldn't expect anything from the regular military beyond being background explosions.

The biggest problem with that is that while the Macross universe has had its share of large-scale battles, they've generally taken a backseat to the more personal stories. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something to that nature by the end of the show.

They ought to take a bit more care while developing characters during battles. I would really have rather learned about Michael's and Klein's childhood outside of a battle where it could have been elaborated on. In addition, dragging Cathy through the mud just to show the difference between the SMS and UN Spacy, how much cooler the former is over the latter, is uncalled for.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by cerrian

Here's some food for thought:

Do you realize that within these first 7 episodes, we have had 6 different insert songs. With the exception of ep. 2, there has been a unique insert song for each episode. At this rate it'll be more of a bloody musical than a mecha show.

That's quite alright in my book Most of the songs so far have been pretty good.

What we saw should have only been a small part (albeit the most important) of the larger battle - there were about half a dozen NUNS carriers present as well. The SMS was awfully quick to deploy and use reaction weapons. Then again, Macross cannons do more damage, so I'm not surprised that they were used as freely as they were.

The Vajra fired it's main cannon the first moment it came out of fold. I think the captain was quite logical to quickly take out a high threat target before other ships become space debris.

[Burner of Anime]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Or like that bunny from the Search for the Holy Grail.

It's called a Vorpal Bunny in the Monty Python skit. In this case, the KM Bunny is perfectly harmless save for the auto-cannon resistant armour and tactical nukes

Not the sort of weapon that can be easily deployed in defense, unless it's batroid form has something amazingly kickass as well.

Anything with Yoko Kanno tends to be a sound and song fest. With Macross, it's probably the dream setup for as many unique insert songs as possible.

[Westlo]

Macross Plus had like.. what 7-9 insert songs over 4 OVA episodes? So Frontiers a little bit behind Plus when it comes to that haha.

[Woland]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Macross Plus had like.. what 7-9 insert songs over 4 OVA episodes? So Frontiers a little bit behind Plus when it comes to that haha.

Yes but... four 45 minutes long OAV :P

[Tabris]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

And it's possible he has two others just like it. I think the last time I saw something like that was in a video game. Also, I believe it implies that not only are they manueverable, but they're really tough as well, since cutting corners like that and the instanteous acceleration implies a very high number of Gs. Assuming the fighter still has to be built to withstand them, it'll be very hardy indeed.

I really don't think that Gs will have a massive effect on a ship in microgravity environments. I don't know a lot about space (nor do I really care, also lol realism in anime) but even turns like that shouldn't have that much impact on a ship in space.

I'm sure it is tougher than a normal VF and we know it's much more agile too, but still, Gs shouldn't mean a lot in space...I think

[Anh_Minh]

Inertia is the same in space as it is on Earth. (One of the mysteries of the universe: why are mass and gravitational attraction proportional?)

[Tabris]

Ah right, fair enough

[Expendable GM Pilot]

I guess I wasn't pay attention but where are you guys getting this info from? That the guy's name is Brera and he's piloting a VF-27.

[StratoSpear]

I just watched the raw... and i gotta say, EPIC PWNAGE!!! Who would have thought of a Gerwalk-Mode Macross? I really can't get enough of the Macross's High-Speed Acceleration-whilst-Transforming scene.

The music really fits well with the scene. Any idea what's the title of the song played when Macross transformed?

Edit: Lets use a new term; "Pull a Macross"
Meaning: Variable Mobile Fortresses transforming whilst accelerating at uber speed...

[Wild Goose]

@Wesley: If ya don't like Frontier so much, ya don't havta watch it. It gets tiring listening to griping and griping again and again.

"You can take the most outstanding man or woman and nitpick them to death, and manage to find some fault in them. Or you can take the average man or woman and start looking for good qualities and find them in abundance. It all depends on what you're looking for." - Zig Ziglar.

Just a thought, k?

That said, it does look like SMS is a lot more capable than NUNS is. Even though there's an advance force with Quarter (at least 4 ships that I make out judging from defold sigs, of which 2 are Guantanamos and one Uraga), SMS is charging in and racking up kills. One does wonder though, how many VF-25s they've got there; looks like they've got plenty of brown grunt VF-25s at any rate, enough to spare at least 4 of them on CAP for Quarter. Actually not having a CAP would be incompetant, really. And not only VF-25s, they've also got Ghost fighters.

Ozma's Armored VF-25S is fuck awesome. I don't care that Roy intercepted an Itano circus, I don't care that SEED's done this before, NOTHING beats a Macross missile bukakke. It ain't Macross without an Armored Valk dumping its payload. And the speed.... jesus, he's zipping all over the place blasting the shit outta Vajra. And I've just realised that he has an extra radome on his Armored Valk. Not as big as Luca's recon/EW rig, but more like a ship-style radar.

Klan and Mikhail felt natural to me, and pretty much confirmed my pre-7 idea of them having some sorta connection. Though Mikhail's making references to them as kids suggests that maybe Mikhail is a full Zent, just micronised. I predict Mikhail/Klan. Or rather, Klan being on top.

Luca's got interesting names for his Ghosts alright.

Holy shit that was some missile bukakke from Ozma's Armored alright. Jesus... he's gotta have dumped at least 200 missiles right at them. Interesting that he says they're the opening act; looks to me like NUNS is letting them go first and see what they're up against, then they'll deploy the VF-171s.

Jesus H Christ. The Konig Monster. LOL at how they asked Kanaria to be gentle with the hull tho. :P

It would appear that the Vajra mothership is on a whole different level than the NUNS, what with the fold reactor and folding into areas where there's fold distortions.

I'd write more but I gotta run now. Curses.

[Ardi220288]

Woah awesome episode the battle just pure win for me specially gearwalk macross and the freaking cannon (plus sherlly topless shot )

[SymphonicRain]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Interesting that he says they're the opening act; looks to me like NUNS is letting them go first and see what they're up against, then they'll deploy the VF-171s

I think they had already been deployed, just not displayed on screen at all. Remember the Macross was deployed together with two plane carriers and there was a brief scene involving relaying orders to dispatch squadrons from the plane carriers.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

@Wesley: If ya don't like Frontier so much, ya don't havta watch it. It gets tiring listening to griping and griping again and again.

"You can take the most outstanding man or woman and nitpick them to death, and manage to find some fault in them. Or you can take the average man or woman and start looking for good qualities and find them in abundance. It all depends on what you're looking for." - Zig Ziglar.

Just a thought, k?

Okay. Here's another: I'm tired of people telling me what to do, what I can and can't say, about their favorite series, and I'm REALLY sick of people personally attacking me because of it. And as if I don't point out the good in a series when it's there, though I will express doubts and pessimism, usually with a wry sense of humor, when I find grounds for it.

That said, it does look like SMS is a lot more capable than NUNS is. Even though there's an advance force with Quarter (at least 4 ships that I make out judging from defold sigs, of which 2 are Guantanamos and one Uraga), SMS is charging in and racking up kills. One does wonder though, how many VF-25s they've got there; looks like they've got plenty of brown grunt VF-25s at any rate, enough to spare at least 4 of them on CAP for Quarter. Actually not having a CAP would be incompetant, really. And not only VF-25s, they've also got Ghost fighters.

I think I counted six other carriers with Quarter. There were a number of VFs on Quarter's flight deck, but I don't know what kind they were. Logically, Quarter's status as a Macross Battleship/Carrier Hybrid would limit the number of fighters they have on board, and you can kind of see it how there doesn't seem to be all that much interior space, even for the fighters themselves.

Quarter would have problems if they needed to launch fighters quickly me thinks.

Ozma's Armored VF-25S is fuck awesome. I don't care that Roy intercepted an Itano circus, I don't care that SEED's done this before, NOTHING beats a Macross missile bukakke. It ain't Macross without an Armored Valk dumping its payload. And the speed.... jesus, he's zipping all over the place blasting the shit outta Vajra. And I've just realised that he has an extra radome on his Armored Valk. Not as big as Luca's recon/EW rig, but more like a ship-style radar.

I laughed when he starting locking on to everything and fired a bunch of missles, but didn't the Vajra have some kind of chaff, along with the ECM in the first episode? Not to mention the Vajra didn't seem to be using the missles they supposedly had.

Klan and Mikhail felt natural to me, and pretty much confirmed my pre-7 idea of them having some sorta connection. Though Mikhail's making references to them as kids suggests that maybe Mikhail is a full Zent, just micronised. I predict Mikhail/Klan. Or rather, Klan being on top.

Everyone seems to think he's a half, though it makes more sense for them to know eachother if he's a full. Although I don't really like them together. Mostly because I don't really like Michael. Don't hate him, but I don't like him either.

Luca's got interesting names for his Ghosts alright.

All Biblical names. I wonder if it's meant to mean something for Luca's character or if the writers are just being smarter-pants.

Holy shit that was some missile bukakke from Ozma's Armored alright. Jesus... he's gotta have dumped at least 200 missiles right at them. Interesting that he says they're the opening act; looks to me like NUNS is letting them go first and see what they're up against, then they'll deploy the VF-171s.

No, there were other groups of fighters that'd been launched. You can see the drives during one close up of Alto just before they'd engaged the Vajra. I'm fairly certain they aren't from the SMS, due to the number of them.

It would appear that the Vajra mothership is on a whole different level than the NUNS, what with the fold reactor and folding into areas where there's fold distortions.

It's in a different weight class (much more massive than Frontier). There's no evidence it's disproportionally more powerful. And we're not sure what the Fold Reactor is supposed to mean at this point. If it's simple power generation or has something to do with navigating distortions.

I do say it's probable that the mothership had been reinforcing the groups of strikecraft that were attacking the Galaxy ships from close by, and simply folded in to counter the Frontier Fleet.