[Manga] Chapter 338 Discussion

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Yeah he fought against the 1st Hokage...and that's it....there is no further info who won or who was stronger...

But if Kakuzu killed the 1st and took his heart he would've used Mokuton jutsu's already...so i doubt it...

And as i mentioned before...the fact that small teams from Konoha (mostly chuunins, 1 genin and some jounin) can beat Akatsuki members...is....making me think that all those rumors where indeed...rumors..(about them defeating a country etc. etc.)

[Zek]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

But would Oro really allow Sasuke to get stronger than he is? It would be kind of a gamble seeing as Oro will eventually have to take over Sasuke, and if Sasuke is stronger, then it may not happen the way he wants. Sasuke doesn't have the same reverence for Oro as the rest of Oro's minions. He doesn't call Oro with the "-sama."

I don't think it matters, as long as he's got the curse seal. Even if Sasuke isn't yet a slave, Oro can probably just make a handseal and immobilize him or something, like the Hyuuga's seal.

I'll go on the record right now as predicting that Oro will successfully take Sasuke's body, without any interruptions or maybe after another failed "Save Sasuke" arc. Then eventually Sasuke will kick him out from inside, with a combination of his incredible "main character" willpower and some motivation from Naruto.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

But if Kakuzu killed the 1st and took his heart he would've used Mokuton jutsu's already...so i doubt it...

Not neccassarily... i think Kakuzu's hearts do not last forever... he has hinted to them eventually stopping; as in eventually his hearts do wear out and need to be replaced... If the hearts only last about the life span of the person they were taken from, and considering how old the 1st hokage would be if he were still alive, the 1st hokage's heart probably would have worn out by present day... However, i would still highly doubt that Kakuzu killed the 1st, fore if he did he would have certainly mentioned it... i mean, the only thing that tops saying that you fought with one of kohona's strongest is by saying you killed him

And as i mentioned before...the fact that small teams from Konoha (mostly chuunins, 1 genin and some jounin) can beat Akatsuki members...is....making me think that all those rumors where indeed...rumors..(about them defeating a country etc. etc.)

Well, one thing we always got to take into account is questioning the strength of those countries... i mean afterall, while the fire country is protected byt he strongest of ninja villages, there are some countries that smaller lesser known villages or no village at all... ofcourse, considering the size of a counrty and the amount of power and chakra it would take is still very great, these feats are still impressive for a single man; just not AS impressive if you jump to certain conclusions... The rumors are indeed true, though the facts may be a bit twisted by false assumption...

Not to mentoin we also have to look at the types of attacks ninjas use... some like sasori and deidara have techniquies that can be highly destuctive over a large area, thus perfect for destorying large places such as cities... however, ninjas who may match their skill level such as kakashi, just plain choose not to practice such highly destructive abilties in favor of smaller techniquies designed well for fighting single opponents (seeing as the need for massive destructive attacks hardly ever comes up)... by all means, some of the jounin that go against akatsuki could possibly match their destructive power if they really wanted to, but they just have no need for such power and thus choose not to practise it in favor of mastering normal combat...

[blazerushmore]

Originally Posted by ajay29

I agree, theres got to be some reason for sending Sak n Sai to Shika, and i actually liked Hidan, i thought he was (is?) badass and his attitude gave a welcome contrast to the seriousness of the the other Akatsukians...
Still, if he dies then i want Zetsu to show up...followed by Shino.....

I think that, while there may yet be something to the Hidan saga, Sakura was merely sent to get her out of the way for Naruto. If you've noticed, for the greater part of the whole story, Sakura has always either been unconscious or not around anytime that Naruto has done something ridiculously awesome.
Kishi seems to be keeping her from realizing Naruto's full strength at every turn.

And it doesn't surprise me too much that Hidan seems to be completely falling into Shikamaru's hands. 1) Hidan is considered the most foolish and stupid of the Akatsuki. 2) Shikamaru is capable of thinking ahead 100 moves. The combination of Hidan's foolishness and Shikamaru's genius add up to an inevitable end for Hidan.

Also, consider this: Shikamaru knew back-up was coming. It's quite possible that he included this in his plan. So, even if Sai and Sakura are going to aid him in some way against Hidan (assuming Hidan isn't already done for), I don't think that it would in any way detract from his plan, it probably reinforces it.

[chitgoks]

i hope theyd at least show naruto (especialy when thsi gets animated) how fast he's become. coz even if he's got that power now, he's lame if he cant even move fast.

as for hidan, i suspect he'll never die (since he's immortal) but his scattered pieces within the earth may be hard to merge him back so he'll be stuck there forever...

Originally Posted by FireDetei

Im not sure why everyone is conserned about how powerful naruto has become, talking about taking down an Akatsuki member alone.

Most of the Akatsuki members are ment to be S-rank nin. Amazing powerful nin wanted by all countries because of their evil actions etc. Sasori was known for wiping out en entire country by himself. yet dispite being this powerful, Sakura, a chunnin, took down Sasori alone.....and shes not really THAT impressive. Shes a medical nin, most of her techniques i would assume would bemore construction than destructive.

Naruto is a normal nin, who uses destructive techniques. One should only assume that naruto would be a better fighter than sakura due to their different specialisations in different types of techniques.

Sasori who wiped out a country, or kakuzu who.....beat up kakashi?

firedetei: sakura beat sasori because of sasori's grandma. if it had been a one on one, sakura would surely die as she wouldnt know how to defeat sasori. but with tsubama's info she was able to defeat him. this goes the same to kakashi and/or shikamaru. if shikamaru fought hiden directly alone, he wouldnt have known about his secret.

so akatsuki ppl are powerful, you need more than one nin to fight against any one of them.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by blazerushmore

I think that, while there may yet be something to the Hidan saga, Sakura was merely sent to get her out of the way for Naruto. If you've noticed, for the greater part of the whole story, Sakura has always either been unconscious or not around anytime that Naruto has done something ridiculously awesome.
Kishi seems to be keeping her from realizing Naruto's full strength at every turn.

Sakura knows Naruto's strength better than most. She saw him beat Kiba and Neji, take on Sasuke on the rooftop, fight against the Itachi clone and battle with Oro. The only real battle she missed was when Naruto defeated Gaara, which I'll admit has probably been Naruto's most awe-inspiring victory so far. She also saw him perform the Wind Rasengan this past chapter and remarks that she believes Naruto can defeat Kakuzu. She still doesn't fawn over him like she did Sasuke every time he did the slightest little thing though.

And it doesn't surprise me too much that Hidan seems to be completely falling into Shikamaru's hands. 1) Hidan is considered the most foolish and stupid of the Akatsuki. 2) Shikamaru is capable of thinking ahead 100 moves. The combination of Hidan's foolishness and Shikamaru's genius add up to an inevitable end for Hidan.

As it's been said before, Shikamaru is this series' Batman. He can beat anyone with enough prep time

Also, consider this: Shikamaru knew back-up was coming. It's quite possible that he included this in his plan. So, even if Sai and Sakura are going to aid him in some way against Hidan (assuming Hidan isn't already done for), I don't think that it would in any way detract from his plan, it probably reinforces it.

I think Shikamaru planned to end it at that attack. He knew back-up would be sent by Tsunade, but he didn't know who was coming or when they would arrive. For him to count on such uncertain variables even as a contingency plan seems unlikely.

[Kotengu]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

But would Oro really allow Sasuke to get stronger than he is? It would be kind of a gamble seeing as Oro will eventually have to take over Sasuke, and if Sasuke is stronger, then it may not happen the way he wants. Sasuke doesn't have the same reverence for Oro as the rest of Oro's minions. He doesn't call Oro with the "-sama."

The more I look back on Oro, the less I'm inclined to think that he really cares weather or not Sasuke becomes stronger than him. He's kinda got a nihilistic personality, and doesn't care what results his actions bring about other than destruction or chaos(and maybe some beifit for himself). Pluss Sasuke has a different relationship with Oro than his other minions do.
-THIS PART IS IMPORTANT-
Sasuke has given up on relationships. Period. Following that logic, he's no longer battling lonliness like the other half of the narutoverse. If he found that Oro could no longer give him what he wants then he won't be with him anymore. If he finds out how to get MS without oro, then oro's screwed. SAUSKE IS USING ORO!! He doesn't care what happens AFTER his goals are acomplished cuz he gave up everything else. But he won't let ANYONE get in his way. Not Naruto, not Sakura, and not Orochimaru. (the practicallity of these events are meaningless)

oro is slick cuz he's Helping sasuke to get 'what he wants'. He 'dyed' sasuke to his color (pushed him to thinking in a nihilistic fassion) and now is taking advantage of that mindset. No one but oro would help sasuke to take on Itachi (for revenge), so that's what he promised him.

Oh yeah. I read these posts about why naruto would be soo strong, but I say it shouldn't be that much of a surprise. IMO naruto wasn't a whole lot stronger after he came back from the timeskip. Pluss all he really did was rely on Kyuubi chakara (which was corny). But he did show us some interesting things.
1.) He could fool Kakashi with and without Sharingan (he complelty owned kakahsi before he whiped out sharingan with his bushins during bells training)
2.) His Speed at doing the justu is now lightnig fast and can be used DURING his taijusu! As seen against Chio's surprise attack, and duing his Bells training

NOW what we do know is that naruto has been training for at least 24 hours. We also know we can multiply that by 1000 for his clone augmentation to his training. 24000 hours is like 1000 DAYS! Which ends up being like another 2.7 years! In one day narurto's Training was equivalent to 2.7 years of training. I don't care who you are, we haven't seen anything that can match that. Not Sharingan, not even the Hyperbolic time chamber! That's SICK! If he trained like that every day for one year it would be equivalent to him training for 972 years. With this new training, Naruto could easily be 9 times more powerful than the most powerful ninja who ever lived.

NOW with that put into perspective, Naruto being able to take on kakuzu after an aditional 2 years of training AND an entirely new jutsu to back him up seems alot more plausable.

[Rurik]

Actually, I already made the Math, And Naruto has trained for some 20 Years:

First of, He is training with at least 1000 Clones, and he trained thought the 6 days it took Akatsuki to seal both Sanbi and Nibi, So it should be some 8 Days of real Training time actually.

In this case he has trained 8000 Days or so, If you divide this into 365 days a years Have, the Total amount will be 22 Years.

[Kotengu]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Actually, I already made the Math, And Naruto has trained for some 20 Years

I stand welcomly corrected!

But yea. 20/22 years is a crazy amount of time. If naruto only showed a month's worth of improvement I would be sourley dissapointed! He should be AT LEAST as good as Kakashi now cuz he's been training longer than Kakashi has been alive (counting the previous 12 years as well). I hope Kishimoto hasn't built this training up too much cuz We should be expecting something rediculously huge from naruto.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Rurik

In this case he has trained 8000 Days or so, If you divide this into 365 days a years Have, the Total amount will be 22 Years.

Reason why Yamato just has to go.

Originally Posted by Kotengu

He should be AT LEAST as good as Kakashi now cuz he's been training longer than Kakashi has been alive (counting the previous 12 years as well).

Doubtful. When he completes the thing he might surpass Kakashi, not jus with 50% of it done. Then again if he was it wouldn't be the first time Kish annoyed me ^^.

[chuckcsf]

I thought he was using around 200 clones...

[EadTaes]

Just want to kow. Did anybody else notice Naruto has the Kyuby's eye on page 6. What do you think it means also.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by chuckcsf

I thought he was using around 200 clones...

If he was doing Taju Kage Bushin, which is what we been implied it is, then is at least 1000 clones.

[Sabaku Kyu]

I thought Kakashi stated that he was only using 200 clones as well. Also, the earlier figures assume that he trained 24 hrs/day, when he obviously took time to rest, eat, etc. I think training 16 hrs/day with Naruto's stamina, is a generous estimate. If you do the math with 200 clones, training 16/hrs a day for 8 days, then Naruto has spent only around 3 years training. If you assume he was training with 1000 clones, he has spent over 14 yrs training.

[Xellos-_^]

Considering the nature of the Shadow Clone does Naruto even need to sleep?

Say he makes 200 clones

50 are training
50 doing mission
100 are sleeping/resting

He can keep doing it forever.

Also since it takes 2 clones to do the rasengan

with 200 clones he can shoot 100 rasengan at his enemy. It might not be enough for the High Level Ninja's but for against a army of low level ninja's thats more then enough. He is one man army.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I thought Kakashi stated that he was only using 200 clones as well.

Any idea when?

In 315 Kakashi said Naruto is to be training with 1000 clones at all times.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Yeah i think Naruto will become the perfect fighter....1 on 1 or 1 on (numerous enemies...like the Sannin)

I think that if Naruto trained for soo long....it should be natural that he can do normal rasengan with 1 hand...

(offtopic: btw what anime is that Xellos? she looks like Ichijou from School Rumble..

Spoiler:

[chuckcsf]

Originally Posted by miss rave

Any idea when?

In 315 Kakashi said Naruto is to be training with 1000 clones at all times.

Kakashi was only explaining that if he would train with 1000 clones, Naruto will gain 20 years of experience in a week.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I thought Kakashi stated that he was only using 200 clones as well. Also, the earlier figures assume that he trained 24 hrs/day, when he obviously took time to rest, eat, etc. I think training 16 hrs/day with Naruto's stamina, is a generous estimate. If you do the math with 200 clones, training 16/hrs a day for 8 days, then Naruto has spent only around 3 years training. If you assume he was training with 1000 clones, he has spent over 14 yrs training.

When You talk about someone training time you don’t begin to subtract the Hours he took to rest to come up with a figure, You only count the days and that’s it. Resting and eating and Taking a dump is part of training, so its been said.

For Instance, You don’t say that Naruto learned the rasengan in some 2 weeks opposite to the whole month he took to learn it, just because in that time spam he rested.

Or that Yondaime didn’t really took 3 Years to Develop the rasengan, as so other Example.

And I don’t recall right now Kakshi mentioning Numbers, but in fact the need of Yamato to keep Kyuby on check for Naruto to create Clones to train is something bigger than 200 clones, in this case 1000 clones.

EDIT: Kakashi indeed said it was 1000 clones, Chapter 315 page 1 and page 09:

"Your Taju Kage Bushin, that’s how we are going to do this in a short amount of time"

"While we train you are to have at least 1000 clones training with you at all times"

[Hunter]

Naruto didn't always train with the same number of clones.
At first he had at least a thousand. One clone per leaf on a tree so I would say between one and two thousands clones.

When he started to try to merge the Rasengan with wind chakra however the concentration needed for the Rasegan forced him to cut this number to 200 clones.