2007-11-04, 10:24 | Link #21 |
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Not every one is a genius like sasuke, itachi, pein, e.t.c. and not everyone cab train like naruto so not every one will be able to master all elements.
But if every one could use all elements easily, why would it be lame? We will get to see more different elemental jutsu. |
2007-11-04, 21:49 | Link #23 | |
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Either way, given Kakashi Handles 2 Elements outside his original affinity, I don't see a reason why a skilled Shinoby could not handle the 5 of them. I see it that having the affinity of an element is you can handle say element to its full potential, while any other elements can be used as secondary choices of Jutsus, in this case you don't find yourself in that type of loop of everyone pulling out the correct counter.
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2007-11-05, 20:31 | Link #24 | |
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Lets say Naruto's affinity is wind and Sasukes is fire. So Naruto will naturally be stronger in the use of wind, because it comes naturally to him, whereas Sasuke's strength lies more with fire and therefore he'll be stronger in that area. It makes sense than to use the areas where you'll gain the greatest amount of power with the greatest amount of ease. So learning other elements and to use them would not be easy, but rather it probably would take longer and put more strain to use. Since Naruto's affinity is stronger than Sasuke's than it makes sense for Naruto to use more wind. This does not nec. mean that he only has to use wind, but he should pick techniques which will be more effecient. In other words he can learn other techniques to maybe surprise an opponenet, but if he soley concentrated on techniques that he cannot naturally use than those techniques are just watered down version than if the person could use those elements naturally. Now I believe that it was mentioned compining two elements would become a BL, therefore since FR is formed by putting some wind element into normal rasengan than adding water to it would actually become a BL. Therefore IMO it makes perfect sense that Yamato would say something like that, because he knows Sasuke will put emphasis on his strengths. |
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2007-11-06, 06:25 | Link #26 | |
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Fire > Wind. If Sasuke's "Main" affinity is fire, and Naruto's "main" affinity is wind, then the Fire will just be even stronger. As in, you're telling me Yamato taught Naruto's wind and then instead of training him in water, is going to let his main affinity become even more dangerous to him? Doesn't make sense. |
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2007-11-06, 06:43 | Link #27 | |
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2007-11-06, 11:36 | Link #28 | |
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No, you got that wrong. There is no such thing as "Main affinity", there is only elements of affinity, each person has only one, but each person is capable of learning Jutsus of other Elements outside their affinity. and then, the reason why Naruto practiced with wind, it because that's his element of affinity, and the purpose to focus on this in the trainng, was made to finish the Jutsu Yondaime started.
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2007-11-06, 13:42 | Link #29 |
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@El Frenchie ^ Rurik I think explained it better than I did. I was trying to say that people naturally only have 1 affinity, but they can learn to use elements not attributed to their affinity.
I know that it terms of science and in the real world it seems fire is stronger, but even in the real world fire cannot survive without air. Lets say you can control air molecules. There is a small candle with a flame lit. You remove the air surrounding the candle, which creates a vaccuum. The flame will extinguish since it cannot survive without the air that fed it. So even though in the real world fire grows stronger with more air it also grows weaker with less air. As you can see the "pokemon" idea of elements does have it's flaws, but one must remember that it's a work of fiction therefore real life science does not need to really apply. I mean Kishimoto has lightning stronger than earth, but one can easily claim that earth can be used as a ground and therefore will redirect the current and therefore earth should be stronger than lightning, but in a work of fiction there is no need to get so complicated. In a sense sometimes it's just better to look at things simply rather than trying to construct complex scenerios, which the author probably never intended. Many people when they learned about the elements did express concern about elements and affinities being placed in Naruto so you were not the only one to question the idea of using elements, but the use of earth, wind, fire, and water (lightning was considered by many cultures to be another form of fire) has been used by many cultures in both religion and stories. |
2007-11-06, 18:56 | Link #30 | ||||
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-But- it doesn't mean that one person couldn't have more than one affinity at birth. If Sasuke just lived working on his fire jutsu, he just could've been unaware of his second affinity, much like Naruto was completely unaware of his wind affinity. Quote:
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As given, we have a chain of elements who each have a weakness and strength compared to the others: Fire > Wind > Lightning > Earth > Water > Fire. That's what Kishi told us. And that's why I'm wondering why they wouldn't teach Naruto water if it is possible to teach elements. ======= Other thing: Quote:
As in, there's no point giving -any- affinities at birth, they'll just learn them. AND IF for example, your affinity at birth is more powerful/easy-to-use/"puthereatacticaladvantage" Then why is Sasuke only using Raiton lately? This screams plothole. |
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2007-11-06, 23:35 | Link #31 |
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About all this elemental affinity stuff, it's just that an affinity. If you have an affinity for a particular element, than that means you naturally will lean towards it. Any technique involving it will be easier to learn for you than it would be for someone else who lacks that affinity. Think about in the real world how the majority of the top athletes in the world all have certain gene sequences that lend themselves to superior performance. However, despite this genetic edge there are others who by sheer virtue of training and hardwork can compete at the same level.
The same principle is operating here, the affinity means that should you train it the elment that you have that affinity for will, in general, produce techniques of superior strength than someone who lacks that affinity. However, none of that precludes the option of learning about techniques that involve elements you do not have an affinity for or having an affinity for more than one element. We know that Kakashi and most likely his dad have lightning elemntal chakra affinity and that special white chakra. Also Kakashi has learned doton, kaiton and suiton techniques. The thing about a bloodline is that this allows you to blend elemental chakra types together to create new ones. So long as you are simply using multiple elemental types and staying within the limits of the 5 you haven't violated any rules that Kishimoto has established. It is highly possible that Sasuke has two elmental affinities, both lightning and fire. As an Uchiha it can be assumed he has fire, lightning could be considered iffy. However, for anyone who says that since he's Uchiha him having another elemental chakra affinity either makes him an incredibly rare ninja or is just plain and simple out of the question I have to ask, where do you think more Uchiha come from? Madara was the first Uchiha and his children would be the only ones who would inherit his Sharingan. However, unless the Naruto-verse is planning on getting especially funky he would have had to mate with a woman to produce children. Those children would also have to mate with other (non-Uchiha) to produce more children and establish the clan proper. All of those other people could easily bring in the requisite genetic variation to have all the other elemental affinities floating around the gene pool. It's just that the Uchiha clan value the fire element (most likely cause that's Madara's exclusive affinity) and use knowledge of techniques that involve it as a rite of passage, which would naturally result in any other elemental techniques and/or affinities being ignored until they begin new training as chunins. Funny enough, this is when Sasuke learned chidori, in training for the final leg of the chunin exam and after having established himself as a man of the Uchiha clan by mastering Kaiton techniques. As far as Sandaime's title of The Professor goes, as others have said he knew every jutsu in Konoha, while Orochimaru in his quest to know every jutsu period would definately know jutsu that would not be present in Konoha. For Kakuzu, the fact that he knew and was capable of performing all the techniques of all the elemental chakras is a big thing. Kakashi said that most Jounin know 2 elements and that it takes a lot of time to learn them. Having total mastery of all 5 elements and being able to use them so freely would indicate that he is a high class and very powerful ninja, which he was. I mean think about it, Kakashi and Sarutobi are some of the few ninjas who don't have a bloodline that we have seen use more than 1 elemental jutsu well and even combine them together for more effective attacks and they are both considered powerful ninja. Kakuzu outclasses both of them in this regard and borders on having a bloodline limit in terms of proficiency thanks to his heart trick. This allows him to have an affinity for all 5 elemental chakra types, something that most likely is impossible. Elemental techniques are also considered very powerful, so it would be a big deal for Kakuzu to have the abilities he had. Finally about Pein, his Rinnegan allows him to master all 6 elements. Since we only know of 5 so far, it is quite likely that the 6th is exclusive to Pein/those with Rinnegan. I also proposed a theory in another thread that the 6th is some kind of void element that allows for elemental fusions. However, we don't know what Jiraiya's comment means. It could be taken at face values and mean he has affinity for all the elemental chakras allowing him to do any elemental jutsu and like Nidaime doesn't need a source for them, or a bit deeper and mean he can do any elemental fusion like the Yonbi (most probable in my opinion), or something else entirely. Regardless as was established with Kakuzu, having mastery of all the elements is a big thing and denotes an especially capable and powerful shinobi, which Pein certainly is. |
2007-11-07, 03:01 | Link #32 | |||||
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2007-11-07, 08:07 | Link #34 | |
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and remember during the chunnin exams when kakashi said "sasuke is like me" this makes me think that his affinity is lightning not fire. |
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2007-11-07, 09:18 | Link #35 | |||||
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Without this rule created by Kishi, any Shinoby could had used all the elements at the same power, and thus Kakuzu ability wouldn’t had been that cool to begin with. Quote:
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2007-11-07, 10:56 | Link #36 | |
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2007-11-08, 00:01 | Link #37 | |
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I imagine with a clan like the Uchiha there would have been tons of men and women who would have wanted to marry into it so that their children would inherit the Sharingan, an obviously dominate genetic trait that is passed down to every child. Heck this could be the origin of the Katon jutsu test. Madara would only want talented ninja coming into his clan and since he prized fire elemental affinity he would want any newcomers to show that they were proficient in it, especially if they had no affinity for it, meaning all newcomers would need to be either genius ninja themselves or jonin level at minimum. However I am doubtful that the elemental affinity gene would be linked with the Sharingan gene. We know that elemental affinities are passed hereditarily and have been for some time. The odds of that gene which deals with a chakra type also possessing the DNA for the eye mutation that is the Sharingan seems unlikely. Heck I doubt the Sharingan is a single gene anyway. With everything that it does (chakra manipulation, enhanced eyesight, the physical change that is the Sharingan, chakra sensing eye cells, etc...) it's doubtful that any single gene would encode that much information, even master genes in the human body don't encode for that much. |
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2007-11-08, 07:03 | Link #39 | ||
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2007-11-08, 08:24 | Link #40 |
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I would agree except for the paper test. Based on one's chakra affinity, the paper reacts a certain way. Fire: it burns, Wind: it splits, Lightning it crinkles. Since the paper seems to only react one specific way per person, that determines your true affinity and having two or more affinities normally isn't possible, else the test wouldn't really be reliable. That's not to say a shinobi can't become proficient in using other elemental jutsu and maybe even prefer to use an element that isn't their affinity, it's just that they will always have a natural inclination towards one element even if only slightly.
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