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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 791 | 63.74% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 163 | 13.13% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 95 | 7.66% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 67 | 5.40% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 17 | 1.37% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 18 | 1.45% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 7 | 0.56% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 7 | 0.56% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 4 | 0.32% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 72 | 5.80% | |
Voters: 1241. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-07-16, 12:14 | Link #5781 | |||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Also, word to the "Code Geass is not all that big on realism" thing. If I don't see the show portaying ZR as but the tragic, horrible result of Lelouch (and Suzaku) having been pushed over the edge for good, then even if I were to agree that their grand plan doesn't make the tiniest bit of sense (which is an opinion I can certainly understand and even get behind to a point), I'd still not see it that way. Come on, realistically, Lelouch would have dropped dead from exhaustion without ever stopping Damocles. Errr, I mean, look, they totally killed the realism with the stamina running gag! Get it? Running gag. Haha. ...All right, I'll shut up now. Quote:
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2011-07-16, 13:14 | Link #5782 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2011-07-16, 14:09 | Link #5783 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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I don't understand what you mean about Lelouch forcing anything on anyone. By the end of Zero:Requiem, Lelouch dies, and the various world governments are left to pick up the pieces. Where does force remotely play into things here? In any case, it is possible for the world to be a happy place without Lelouch, isn't it? No matter how much conflict in Code Geass' world, shouldn't the inherent humanity of the peaceful people of the world be enough that at some point, at some time, it is reasonable to expect that the world will have become a pleasant enough place to live in? At the end of R2, the major villains have been defeated. Politically, the causes for war across the great nations have all been removed too. Is it really that ridiculous to then accept a happy ending? It's not like anything is actually ruined by having someone like Ohgi for Prime Minister. To say that the world managed to become a happy place after Zero:Requiem is not a stretch at all. I think that it is only personal resentment of certain characters, and attachment to others, which might make one think otherwise. |
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2011-07-17, 07:11 | Link #5784 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I'll post it later... the pic... |
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2011-07-17, 13:53 | Link #5785 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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2011-07-17, 20:09 | Link #5786 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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And by "becoming evil to destroy evil", Lelouch was referring to necessity. The Zero Requiem, in addition to being quite possibly worse than anything that could be directly attributed to his rebellion, was arguably unnecessary. More on that in a bit. Quote:
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You know what it reminds me of in real life? Conan O'Brien losing the Tonight Show and Jay Leno, whose evening talk show bomb sabotaged the former ratings, ending up as the Tonight Show host in his place. Truth In Television, evidently. Let's face it: Lelouch could have done a lot more for the world if he were to live on as a good leader instead of sacrificing himself and taking so many people down with him. Ohgi on the other hand demonstrated anti-leadership ever since he became fixated on Villetta. Diethard even lampshaded it in Turn 20! Quote:
And Villetta and Cornelia are major charlatans at the end, in addition to Karma Houdinis. As for Lelouch, it isn't only about the world being better overall without Lelouch than if he were to not do the Zero Requiem and live on as a good leader instead, but also how he just plain got a raw deal. Not to mention the betrayal and everything that followed, Zero Requiem included, could have been averted if not for a few crucial things, pretty much shifting the final outcome. And there's a trope for endings presented as happy even though there are some serious issues: Esoteric Happy Ending. Last edited by azul120; 2011-07-18 at 16:27. |
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2011-07-18, 15:09 | Link #5789 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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As long as we're referencing TV Tropes though, it must always be said that tropes are not inherently good or bad. It depends on how they're used, of course, but also on how the audience chooses to look at them. Which brings us back to the previous discussion earlier in this topic. |
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2011-07-18, 16:25 | Link #5790 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Added to my earlier post in case Sol Falling comes back to reply. |
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2011-07-25, 15:01 | Link #5792 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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They not only protected people but they gave their lives for world peace. I know they might have done it unwittingly but they managed to be martyrs. Is it really their misfortune ... probably but many of them outlived Lelouch in the end so I think they wont complain much.
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2011-07-25, 16:21 | Link #5793 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Also remember that Lelouch destroyed large parts of Britannian culture, and since those who served him were Britannian soldiers, they were forced to do the exact opposite of what a soldier is supposed to do. That is, harm their own people and directly aid in the destruction of their own culture. As for outliving Lelouch, this is likely moot as there is nothing to indicate that they were freed from his Geass control, meaning they would be mindless puppets until they die. One could argue that from a certain viewpoint, they effectively 'died' the moment Lelouch used his Geass on them. Though you are technically corect (the best kind of correct) in that they wouldn't complain, as they would lack the free will to do so, but their families, friends, and loved ones would likely suffer a great deal. * Yes, this is a deliberate nod to one of Xander's earlier points about realism in the series. |
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2011-07-25, 21:47 | Link #5795 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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2011-07-26, 01:30 | Link #5796 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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As well, it is a fact that Lelouch destroyed many aspects of Britannian culture as I said, and enforcing the destruction of one's own culture is contrary to what a soldier is supposed to do. As such regardless of the truth, the world will know these soldiers destroyed their own culture, fought on behalf of a tyrant, and opressed their own people (all of which is true) along with the rest of the world, and merely "believe" that they helped murder innocents en masse (which is only theoretically untrue). In other words, these soldiers were shafted pretty badly, and realistically,* alot of people close to them would be affected by this, but world peace requires that none of it be exposed. * Again, a nod to Xander's point about realism in the series Last edited by Betteroffer; 2011-07-26 at 01:41. |
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2011-07-26, 18:42 | Link #5797 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I am sure Leloouch made a plan for them to rejoin the society as a good commoners. I reckon Orange Kun did ungeass them in the end too. Then again ZR would not be needed if Suzaku ( and bit of Lelouch ) would not need to clean Euphemia's name. At the very least Lelouch did not destroy cities with nukes ( like Schneizel planned ). |
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2011-07-28, 00:32 | Link #5798 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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If Jeremiah cancelled the Geass placed on them, then they would regain all the memories of the things they did while under Lelouch's control. In addition to possibly exposing the truth about ZR, this would also reveal the existence of mass mind control abilities to the world or at worst, the existence of Geass itself. And that is only if the soldiers are actually believed. Even if the rumors of mass murder were a trick, the soldiers would still suddenly be aware of a period of several months where they were powerless in their own bodies as they were made to oppress their countrymen and destroy their country's institutions. We know for a fact that Lelouch was "putting down" the forces of nobles who wanted to retain their titles, so they were fighting their fellow soldiers for awhile. How would they seek psychological help for this without revealling themselves as soldiers of Lelouch? |
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2011-07-28, 11:47 | Link #5800 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Not that this discussion makes a lot of sense, in the absence of any figures to make a proper comparison, but
"worse than Charles" doesn't necessarily mean Lelouch had to kill more people in two or three months than his father did in an unspecified but greater number of years. He just needs to take actions that are publicly considered as far more oppressive, reprehensible, arbitrary or authoritarian, something which isn't exclusively measured in terms of carnage alone. Even enslaving his soldiers and turning them into mindless stormtroopers counts as one of those apparently unprecedented offenses. Lelouch did, no doubt, end up spilling a lot of blood...but his entire Evil Emperor act wasn't limited to that. In fact, Lelouch only referred to the Mad Princess Euphemia, not Charles, when making any sort of explicit reference about how much death would ensue as a result of his actions. As for the idea itself, I believe my opinion requires no further elaboration at this point. Quote:
For every Nazi caught and tried for his crimes there were literally thousands who never received so much as a slap on the wrist and most of those punished were sentenced to very light sentences in the long run. Nuremberg was the exception, not the rule, and the later denazification efforts were usually quite generous and forgiving in comparison. Of course, we don't know exactly how many people were turned into faceless slaves by Emperor Lelouch, nor should we expect any official statistics on the matter to be logistically possible or remotely realistic. Therefore, if we were to somehow assume that Lelouch's slave soldiers are going to receive a similar treatment, then most of them aren't likely to have much of a problem in post-war Britannia as far as judicial affairs are concerned. That's not to say they wouldn't be affected in other ways (such as dealing with some psychological fallout, though this is impossibly hard to measure with any degree of accuracy), regardless of the show's inherently unrealistic status, but it wouldn't exactly be fair -nor, ironically, realistic- to conclude they are all uniformly destined to suffer. Last edited by Xander; 2011-07-28 at 12:16. |
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