2012-10-17, 14:11 | Link #41 | ||
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2012-10-17, 14:19 | Link #42 |
Unheard
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I can understand him wanting a dream world where the girl that never loved him isn't dead, and does love him.
The fact that he doesn't even care why Kakashi killed Rin and hasn't looked for an explanation is iffy though. Kishimoto came up with this way too late in the game, as a means of extending. Really needs to end this whole thing once and for all. The more it's stretched, the less poignant it is. |
2012-10-17, 14:26 | Link #43 | |
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I guess that's okay for me under the light of something like Madara manipulating the darkness inside of him (especially considering he probably continued to do so as Zetsu). Guess we'll see. |
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2012-10-17, 14:29 | Link #44 | ||
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There are conflicts between tribes started over minor disputes (of which emotional appeals would be key), but "world" wars are not begun over such simplistic events. Consequently, there is no thought-process involved in this war that actually makes sense (to me). Quote:
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2012-10-17, 14:38 | Link #45 | |
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I would however like to see how the fourth mizukage is tied in since the glance we got from kisame's flash back show madara with dark hair (could be the shadow) yet here he is old and has white hair. Couldn't be that long. |
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2012-10-17, 15:17 | Link #47 | |
Fallen Angel
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I'll assume most of the readers here are either late teens or early 20's in age. Which is not insulting or a bad thing at all, but teen adolescent puppy love experience is a stretch of the imagination. Look at Helen of Troy- While it's a fusion of mythology and history(historians have generally accepted that there is a factual history behind Troy), the general consensus is that one military leader (Agamemnon=Madara) had a desire to start a war, and needed the aid of another (Menelaus=Obito). Upon the loss of his love (Helen=Rin) at the hands of a former ally (Paris/Troy=Kakashi/Konoha), the one desiring war (Agamemnon=Madara) is able to convince his desired ally(Menelaus=Obito) to follow him into war for his own gains. While the war ITSELF was originated from one man's greed/pride/hatred, a key involvement was due to love. Are you going to criticize Homer for writing the Illiad and using love as a factor for war? Another example is William Wallace in Braveheart. Is this fiction? Absolutely. But his involvement as a key leader in Scottish war for independence against Britain was largely due to his wife's death. Was the war about her death? No. But did it play a large role? Absolutely. That movie won multiple academy awards and nominations for both its plot, execution and cinematography. Are you going to criticize that too? The truth is, love can drive some men to rob banks, murder people, commit suicide and do the most wicked things imaginable. Obito attempted to sacrifice his LIFE for his friend, had half his body destroyed by boulders, so he could entrust the girl he loves unconditionally to that same friend to protect her and spent months, possibly a year in confinement with only Uchiha Madara and some Hashirama clone as his only company. He probably thought about Rin every day he woke up and throughout the day as he trained and finally escapes confinement to save both his friend and the girl he loves, only to see his friend's HAND sticking out of her back from killing her. Is it THAT hard to believe that he would commit himself to some plan to hypnotize the entire world? I'm surprised he didn't want to just blow up the world, to be honest. Bear in mind, he was THIRTEEN when he made those sacrifices. I could barely deal with my best friend dying when I was 13, let alone sacrificing myself and seeing my best friend murder the girl I loved. |
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2012-10-17, 16:25 | Link #48 | ||
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2012-10-17, 16:37 | Link #50 | |
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B) A child's mind is a child's mind. While Naruto's world is dark, there is still an instilled sense of duty and moral obligations and an adolescent teen is still capable of sustaining permanent emotional scarring from a traumatic event such as witnessing a best friend kill the person they love. During the time of Troy, the mythology shows that soldiers began training in their early teens or even under the age of 10. |
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2012-10-17, 16:48 | Link #51 | |||
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One could say that Henry VIII started his religious warfare against the pope because of women. Then there's Cleopatra and Marcus Antonius. In history whenever there were leaders with absolute power, who also in ancient times were often quite young (similarily to Obito) there was a chance that they will cause (directly or indirectly) wars because of love or hate. But i guess many will say that it was just a pretense and not the real reason. I would not compare this ninja war to a large/world war in our world, it's more like a war between clans in ancient times, when there were young leaders with absolute power. I mean Obito's side consists of Obito who lost Rin, Nagato who lost Yahiko, Sasuke who lost his family, Sasori who lost his parents, there's no army and no country on that side, they definitely were not some rational actors like the organizations who made war " in the past 100+ years". And funny thing is not even the ninja alliance is since even their leaders believe in prophecies over rational thinking, as shown when Tsunade and the raikage believe that Naruto is the legendary savior so he can't fail and they let him join the war. So it's better to compare it to wars of ancient times, between two cities or clans. One other thing is that i actully didn't mean literally love between man and woman, it can also be Sasuke's love of his parents and Itachi, for which he wants to destroy Konoha. Quote:
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Nagato's eyes didn't help him to not starve to death. Was it in Madara's plan that in the last moment Konan offers him some food? Or maybe Madara's rinnegan can see the future, so he did see that Nagato will survive Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2012-10-17 at 17:31. |
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2012-10-17, 16:49 | Link #52 | ||
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Essenar, I think you have either quoted the wrong person or theres been a bit of a misunderstanding here. I'm not against the idea of Obito waging war against the world over Rin's death(though I'd agree it could've been written/presented better). I'm glad you posted what you did though, as I now have less to write.
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2012-10-17, 16:49 | Link #53 | ||
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2012-10-17, 17:07 | Link #55 | ||
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as for william wallace, his wife's death was said to be the catalyst to his rebellion, but was just part of a larger whole. his people were being terrorized, oppressed and forced to submission. his wife's death was the last straw. the root cause of that war was really the fact that the scottish people refused to be conquered.
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2012-10-17, 18:13 | Link #56 |
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I love reading this forum but when i come to a Naruto manga forum and the first thing i read is Mel gibson in Braveheart quoted a coupe times theres a problem! I'm sure if Mel Gibson was writing Naruto is would be great!!!
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2012-10-17, 20:44 | Link #57 | ||
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As ronin myael said -and even he overstated it I think- love was no important factor at all in this story but for the love of Achille for Patroclus and that wasn't the kind of love you talk about. The Illiad is all about fate, vanity and honor from men and gods. But more importantly the point isn"t that you can't use love in fiction, that's stupid. Countless works of fiction have done that successfully realistically or not. No, the problem is that in this story it is very badly written even taking into account the character's usual oversensitivity. Although I maintain that brain damage does explain almost everything. Quote:
Obito's personality collapse makes Sasuke look sane in comparison and that's saying something. |
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2012-10-17, 21:27 | Link #58 |
start thinkin bout clones
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obito just wanted rin back, he clearly doesnt care why she was killed, just wants her back.
he even said he didnt care if kakashi lived or died at that moment because he would bring him back with the eye moon plan. so he still feels like while kakashi killed his love, he forgave him enough to allow him to live peacefully in the fake world.
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2012-10-17, 21:52 | Link #59 | |
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2012-10-17, 21:58 | Link #60 | |
Princess or Plunderer?
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Seriously. Obito, you're sick and twisted. Not only because of your obssession for Rin, but also for the fact that you refuse to move on about Rin's death.
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