Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by shinigami99

Lol if not for Kallen bursting in at that scene, a massive CluClu moment would've happened(most likely a kiss) quelling all these shipping wars once and for all. However as it stands, shipping wars will continue till God knows when.

Then again, they had to outright make Kallen an enemy just to give C.C. that moment in the first place.

[Train Samurai]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Then again, they had to outright make Kallen an enemy just to give C.C. that moment in the first place.

Or not, all the moments before she was never the enemy

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Train Samurai

Or not, all the moments before she was never the enemy

"All" doesn't add up to that many in R2. Plus, Kallen was captured for almost all of them. Same difference.

[Train Samurai]

Originally Posted by youngde

I have to say, some of you aren't giving Kallen the credit she deserves. She won, fair and square against Suzaku. He had his live on hax, she had the superior frame; they were even, but she BARELY pulled off the victory, albeit, not enough to actually keep going and stop Lelouch. It would be horrible planning on their part to do something so unpredictible as depend on Suzaku to stop Kallen, but not get killed or kill her in the process. It would be an incredibly stupid way of doing things when they could have just faked his death much easier in the two month gap between capturing Damocles and Lelouch's 'death.'

There are too many things that could have gone wrong. And don't give me the 'he predicted Schneizel's answers speech.' Lelouch and Schneizel think very much alike (their ideals and dreams are very different, but they think alike). Knowing what Schneizel knows and what kind of person he is, he could extrapolate from that.

Lelouch, however, was clearly not expecting Kallen to bust into Avalon, etc. He did not have her factored in perfectly. And at any rate, he knew that Kallen had superior mech hax and Suzaku had 'live on' hax; other than that, they had always prooved to be about even. He would have been a fool to have something so important be determined by the flip of a coin.

Also, Suzaku himself admitted that the fight was even; saying that he was talking to Kallen makes no sense to me. Both of them appear to be talking to themselves as to why neither can win. At any rate, to have the final match up between the two main mechs in the series to be staged would be a major slap in the face. It seems to me in the end the Black King and Queen won their respectively battles, which is fine by me...artistically and thematically.

youngde, signing off.

A Kallen fan declared Kallen won the fight, that's not surprising at all
Seriously it was a standstill, her objective was not to beat Suzaku but to stop Lelouch which she FAILED to do, Suzaku acted as Lelouch's sword still the end in that he would stop anyone from killing him which he DID and it payed off for both of them in the end. Lord, it seems like all you saw as the Lancelot explode but ignored the fact that Kallen had her chestplate left and was plummeting to her death.

Originally Posted by morbosfist

"All" doesn't add up to that many in R2. Plus, Kallen was captured for almost all of them. Same difference.

Eh, whatever floats your boat

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Train Samurai

A Kallen fan declared Kallen won the fight, that's not surprising at all
Seriously it was a standstill, her objective was not to beat Suzaku but to stop Lelouch which she FAILED to do, Suzaku acted as Lelouch's sword still the end in that he would stop anyone from killing him which he DID and it payed off for both of them in the end. Lord, it seems like all you saw as the Lancelot explode but ignored the fact that Kallen had her chestplate left and was plummeting to her death.


Eh, whatever floats your boat

Um, dude, I was just saying that Suzaku didn't take a fall and 'die' like so many other people are saying. And at any rate, Kallen was the one that got a decisive final hit in, even Suzaku admitted that. If she hadn't been on the side of a flying fortress, she would have just fallen over (mind you, she may have died when Lancelot exploded, but that's not certain). The fight was pretty much even, just like all the others, but Kallen BARELY came out ahead.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by shinigami99

Lol if not for Kallen bursting in at that scene, a massive CluClu moment would've happened(most likely a kiss) quelling all these shipping wars once and for all. However as it stands, shipping wars will continue till God knows when.

Considering that Kallen was interrupted at least four or five time this season, I think C.C. had it coming.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by youngde

Considering that Kallen was interrupted at least four or five time this season, I think C.C. had it coming.

One of which was from C.C herself. Turnabout is fair play.

[Train Samurai]

Originally Posted by youngde

Um, dude, I was just saying that Suzaku didn't take a fall and 'die' like so many other people are saying. And at any rate, Kallen was the one that got a decisive final hit in, even Suzaku admitted that. If she hadn't been on the side of a flying fortress, she would have just fallen over (mind you, she may have died when Lancelot exploded, but that's not certain). The fight was pretty much even, just like all the others, but Kallen BARELY came out ahead.

She didn't win. She destroyed Lancelot Albion but Suzaku survived and Kallen would have fallen to her death if Gino hadn't caught her. This led to her failing to stop Lelouch, which was her true objective anyway.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Train Samurai

She didn't win. She destroyed Lancelot Albion but Suzaku survived and Kallen would have fallen to her death if Gino hadn't caught her. This led to her failing to stop Lelouch, which was her true objective anyway.

Didn't think about that, that's true. But in a duel imo, the winner is the one who doesn't die first. If my opinion on this scene is wrong, so that suzaku was not acting, suzaku would have lost (if he had really died), even if kallen would have died right after him.

But in code geass world, the people think that suzaku lost and died, so in a way, who cares XD

Since no one died, now i think it's a tie.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by youngde

Um, dude, I was just saying that Suzaku didn't take a fall and 'die' like so many other people are saying. And at any rate, Kallen was the one that got a decisive final hit in, even Suzaku admitted that. If she hadn't been on the side of a flying fortress, she would have just fallen over (mind you, she may have died when Lancelot exploded, but that's not certain). The fight was pretty much even, just like all the others, but Kallen BARELY came out ahead.

In Batman, more specifically Batman begins, the environment plays a very big role to whether you lose or win. Anyhow I have no comment on the fight.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Train Samurai

She didn't win. She destroyed Lancelot Albion but Suzaku survived and Kallen would have fallen to her death if Gino hadn't caught her. This led to her failing to stop Lelouch, which was her true objective anyway.

She may have lost her objective, but she won the fight, that's what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Narona

Didn't think about that, that's true. But in a duel imo, the winner is the one who doesn't die first. If my opinion on this scene is wrong, so that suzaku was not acting, suzaku would have lost (if he had really died), even if kallen would have died right after him.

But in code geass world, the people think that suzaku lost and died, so in a way, who cares XD

Since no one died, now i think it's a tie.

Thank you. At least some people realize that Suzaku wasn't taking a dive, which is the whole point I was trying to make in the first place. (At least we know that Kallen could have beaten Bismark, even w/ his Geass hax since she's even w/ Suzaku.)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by youngde

She may have lost her objective, but she won the fight, that's what I'm saying.



Thank you. At least some people realize that Suzaku wasn't taking a dive, which is the whole point I was trying to make in the first place. (At least we know that Kallen could have beaten Bismark, even w/ his Geass hax since she's even w/ Suzaku.)

I've tried convincing them before, youngde, it didn't work. >__>

[Narona]

Originally Posted by youngde

Thank you. At least some people realize that Suzaku wasn't taking a dive, which is the whole point I was trying to make in the first place. (At least we know that Kallen could have beaten Bismark, even w/ his Geass hax since she's even w/ Suzaku.)

I am not that stubborn with the people who not debate with an aggressive tone. I have my own view on this scene, but if I am wrong and that suzaku was not acting, then imo, suzaku lost the fight.

[Droplet]

Kallen's SEITEN was apparently more powerful than the Albion and Kallen herself was a prodigious pilot. In her duel with Suzaku, she should've won if Suzaku didn't have his "Live On" hack activated. On the other hand, if Kallen used anything less powerful than SEITEN, but still slightly more powerful than Albion, then in my opinion she might have lost instead.

I also think that it's a tie.

[Skellington2612]

You are the delusional here... Kallen was a pretty good pilot just accept... that fight was a tie... Kallen falling to her death is the same as Suzaku not being able to escape from the exploding Lancelot... he would have died as well as Kallen... don´t let your biased hate to her blind you... Kallen would have been able to beat Bismarck with too much effort but she was able... moving faster she could have...

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Train Samurai

Hmmmmm........

Convince them of what perhaps?

Look for it yourself. My own discussion on the matter was on a different thread and was weeks ago. I only made mention of it, I was not participating on this debate.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

o_o;; Is there some reason that everyone is making such a big deal over Kallen and Suzaku's fight here?

They both survived. End of story.

[FoxxFireArt]

Originally Posted by Zetsubou Bunny

o_o;; Is there some reason that everyone is making such a big deal over Kallen and Suzaku's fight here?

They both survived. End of story.

How did Suzaku survive anyways? Not only was his cockpit lanced by the Guren's arm. The whole thing blew up good.
I think that kind of outcome would of been too hard to predict. Too much of Lelouch's plan depended on Suzaku surviving, I guess. Push comes to shove I guess C.C. could of played the part, but that would of meant she would of had to be Zero. That doesn't really work out.
I just don't see how you could predict that Kallen would defeat Suzaku in such a way that would give the appearance of Suzaku's death. Even more so when you consider the only reason the two had to fight was because Gino took out the shield, allowing the Guren in.
Not to mention that Kallen would just happen to pass out after she defeated Suzaku. That always seemed a bit too convenient, Though if she hadn't you know eve with her wings out of commission she would of kept fighting and pressed Lelouch's hand. Seeing how Lelouch wasn't as crazy as Schneizel I doubt he would of used the FLEIJA teh same way. Schneizel seemed ready to launch FLEIJA to set an example.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

How did Suzaku survive anyways? Not only was his cockpit lanced by the Guren's arm. The whole thing blew up good.
I think that kind of outcome would of been too hard to predict. Too much of Lelouch's plan depended on Suzaku surviving, I guess. Push comes to shove I guess C.C. could of played the part, but that would of meant she would of had to be Zero. That doesn't really work out.
I just don't see how you could predict that Kallen would defeat Suzaku in such a way that would give the appearance of Suzaku's death. Even more so when you consider the only reason the two had to fight was because Gino took out the shield, allowing the Guren in.
Not to mention that Kallen would just happen to pass out after she defeated Suzaku. That always seemed a bit too convenient, Though if she hadn't you know eve with her wings out of commission she would of kept fighting and pressed Lelouch's hand. Seeing how Lelouch wasn't as crazy as Schneizel I doubt he would of used the FLEIJA teh same way. Schneizel seemed ready to launch FLEIJA to set an example.

Nice post.

But I guess Suzaku could have taken a dive if you consider that he and Lelouch planned on Gino letting Kallen into the shield. That they had planned it out perfectly on how he would lose and knock out Kallen at the same time. That Suzaku planned it out so he would lose in a way that didn't involve her using radiation or slicing /stabbing through his armor and reaching him. That Suzaku must not have fought all out even though he said so himself how strong Kallen was....(in contrast he had nothing to say about Bismark)

Anyway I think the entire fight at that point in the series/episode was pointless and made little sense in the grand scheme of things

[Clegger]

I thought the final fight between Suzaku and Kallen was a tie. I'm still not sold that Kallen's final blow is what made the Lancelot explode. The time between her blow and how long it took for the Lancelot to explode makes me think Suzaku self destructed on purpose. I'm not saying he wasn't trying to win because he had to destroy the Guren or the plan would fail, what I am saying is he took advantage of the way everything played out.

He had time to tell Kallen that her blow did reach him, for Kallen to start falling and enough time to get out of the way of the explosion. So I see the scene as Suzaku trying to win outright, not being able too, Kallen's final blow making the Lancelot useless and Suzaku taking advantage of the situation and faking his death.