2010-08-05, 12:33 | Link #21 |
Left for TFF
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I.D.s are EXPENSIVE!
Really, they can be made by anyone (Linith, Rio and Lutecia have all made I.D.s), but the cost isn't always worth it. It's why most Bureau members go with Storage devices, cheaper, less AI to worry about, and they can do most of the work anyway. (Though apparently the lack of AI means that they don't get too reliant on the device helping them do the work.)
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2010-08-05, 13:02 | Link #22 | ||
♨(ゝω・)v
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: フェイトの中
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^ Storage devices also convert mana faster iirc.
So apparently, that Huckebein airship thing might be a Lost Logia. Dunno if you guys poked that in the manga thread, but I'll probably end up looking at Analyzer later today. Quote:
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I think the Japanese wiki mentioned something about magic power and precision being doubled, but lol.
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2010-08-05, 13:22 | Link #23 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I think it's more of a trust issue. Not everyone is willing to put their trust in a machine with a mind of it's own. They fear the Terminator effect, as it were. |
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2010-08-05, 13:40 | Link #24 | ||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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2010-08-05, 14:15 | Link #25 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Yes, because prison planets are just ripe with parts for magical weaponry and ten year olds are so much more wealthier.
Seriously though, we don't have any clue what an intelligent device costs to buy or build, but saying cost is the reason why the bureau doesn't equip their personnel with them while kids hand them out to one another like they're candy is rather silly. |
2010-08-05, 14:19 | Link #26 |
Left for TFF
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Well, from what Linith said in the Sound stages, she had to get lots of parts and stuff for them, so... *Shrugs*
As for Lutecia, well, her mother was a former Bureau member, she could call in a few favors for parts for her daughter, don't you think?
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2010-08-05, 14:24 | Link #27 |
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Rein Zwei, the answer is in her name: Reinforce. Not only fire control, but one would assume enhanced spell power and mana control, as well as enhanced defenses (Vita says she would have died if it weren't for Rein).
As for devices, we've established that a mage can use two, the question is why not? Personal preference could account for it, but personally if one device can do everything I need, why do I need a second? A spare? One gun isn't that expensive, but equipping your entire force with two guns each can be a bit pricey. |
2010-08-05, 14:28 | Link #28 | |||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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Besides, the Terminator Effect argument kinda falls apart when you consider that most ID we see never even come close to rebelling... Quote:
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2010-08-05 at 14:39. |
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2010-08-05, 14:30 | Link #29 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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There are also devices like Cross Mirage, which, while being two pistols for the most part, is considered a single Device.
Basically, what I wanted to know when I brought up the subject in the Q&A is whether or not a mage would suffer consequences, be it physical, mental, or magical, should he try to use two separate Intelligent Devices at once.
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2010-08-05, 14:37 | Link #30 | |
Banned
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If built well, the devices shouldn't strain, but help out. Now, if you're talking about Nanoha picking Bardiche up and using that in the midst of battle along with Raging Heart, that would be interesting. Bardiche may be tuned more towards Fate, and thus Nanoha probably couldn't use it as well as Fate, but she technically might get some use out of it. On the other hand, she might not bother because she can use RH to great effect already. Simple more hassle to pick up another device. So you'd have to clarify whether the second device would be built/tuned for the mage, or whether you have them picking something up on the fly. |
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2010-08-05, 14:51 | Link #32 | |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
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Of course, if some unforeseen circumstances forces one to wield an unfamiliar ID, I reckon they still wouldn't use them unless necessary because they're not used to it. Imagine a trained swordsman suddenly having to use a spear...
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2010-08-05, 14:53 | Link #33 |
Writer, Jester, MtG nerd
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Well, its plot armor at that point, it can if its useful to the story and it doesn't as it pertains to the story. if you mean it needs to be attached to a certain blood type, then again thats a made up fact thats not stated in cannon.
right, it may just be unwieldy being treated as completely foreign (untrained) weapon/device. I imagine that can be reconciled as the story progresses.
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2010-08-05, 14:57 | Link #34 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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Well the way I figure it, using two Intelligent Devices would allow a mage to either lay down a lot of spells in a short period of time, thanks to the processing power of two different spell-use Devices working together, or possibly allowing the mage to use spells much, much faster (like two computers working together on a single task).
But I figured something like that couldn't happen without some sort of price being paid, and we already know that overused magic can be dangerous.
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2010-08-05, 14:58 | Link #35 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I really don't think cost is the reason most troops don't use them. Quote:
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There shouldn't be. We know handling multiple devices is possible, we have a growing list of examples of that, and intelligence can be adjusted to compliment one another rather than conflict. |
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2010-08-05, 15:26 | Link #36 | |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
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Look, I respect your theory, but I won't go around dismissing the cost theory. Afterall, one custom ID may not seem to cost much, but arming an entire army is a different issue altogether; you'll want to cut corners anywhere you can. Why give ID's to low-powered grunts? What are they gonna use the Intelligence for? If they prove themselves to be somewhat special, then we'll give them something more.
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2010-08-05, 15:28 | Link #37 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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Steed does, however, aid Thoma in the use of Mid-Childa style magic, and therefore has the potential to be a weapon. Look at Raising Heart: no true weapon systems on it, unlike Bardiche, but arguably one of the most powerful weapons in the series because it aids Nanoha with her magic.
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2010-08-05, 15:31 | Link #38 |
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Well, Steed isn't the sort of I.D. that is useful for much (it seems like) outside of support and picture taking.
Price has to be considered... But I think the biggest thing is probably the fact that not all I.D.s like their users. Take Raising Heart and Yuuno for example. Raising Heart worked for him, but it preferred Nanoha, since she wanted to make things "go boom now". And we saw Bardiche and Raising Heart both go "not going to work, nope, not going to work, give us cartridges. We got our butts kicked because of cartridges, we want cartridges too! Give us shiny bullet power!" And Armed Devices are more suited for Belka-style magic than Mid-style magic.
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2010-08-05, 15:49 | Link #39 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Like you said, if money is an issue you'll want to cut corners anywhere you can, and random orphanage kids or 'friends of a colleague's daughter' would be among the first corners to cut. Nanya raised another good point: ID's are basically unison devices (in fact, I recall unison devices directly being called 'the design idealogy of the Midchildan Intelligent Device to extremes' in the A's booklet) and we know of the lovely term called “Unison accident.” ID's, being sentient, could pretty much experience the same compatibility issues -albeit with less extreme results- resulting in the plain old 'pull the trigger for it to work' devices being preferred. |
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2010-08-05, 16:09 | Link #40 | |||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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I'm also starting to think that ID's probably take more time to make and since it must be designed to fit with the users specialization, the reason TSAB doesn't give its grunts ID's is that it's just not worth the time and effort; most of them doesn't have advanced magic skill anyway. like I said before, what would low-level grunts use the Intelligence for, anyway? It's not like they have that much magic power to require special multitasking anyway... Also, nepotism. PS: What's a unison accident?
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