2013-03-11, 01:25 | Link #4501 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Maho and Katyusha
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The problem was that they were unable to get hits at ranges so close that ... darn it, even Erwin and her team managed a better hit rate in their first fight ... with a StuG. Given their (lack of) skill they had no right to be overconfident against anyone, but normally, if you are a middle schooler vet fighting primary school newbies, it'll take enormous mental discipline not to be overconfident. And as for the "highly distracted and not used to" part, I thought you were telling me up there Maho had great leadership. Shouldn't she have focused them? As for the tree part, Maho herself was saved by a tree later on (I don't think you should be kicked out for losing 1/10000 fights, but if you lose or even tie to a bunch of primary school kids in this fashion you deserve it). Besides, they actually missed several shots before they clubbed the tree. Clearly, luck wasn't their primary problem... Quote:
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Besides, just look at the scene. If your mind isn't full of the idea that Kuromorimine are supposed to be the champs, do Miho and Co look more like members of a victorious army maneuvering to deliver the final blow or a defeated one running away from being hunted down? Quote:
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Katyusha is adequate as a platoon commander and shows it in last year's fight. But as a company or overall commander she isn't up to it... But at least she does have redeeming attributes. The Pravdan girls must love her. They humored her whole plan to lose several tanks for a dogeza. Nobody seems the least bit bothered about the threats of the dark classroom. Or the need to spend 3 hours in the snow waiting for Oarai to surrender when they could have speeded up the process by blasting the church entrance wider followed by a shooting gallery. They might even have been game enough to add the nice finishing touch of precision shooting out 3 of Oarai's tanks (if you accept the theory the Pravdans deliberately shot at less than their maximum lethality there to chase them into the church, it is possible to interpret all those M-kills and F-kills not as "They only managed those" but "They sniped at the tracks and guns and got them", the latter of which would be impressive even at the close range). You can actually make a case for it, because while they only got 4 hits, of which 3 were effective, they basically sealed off what passed for Ooarai's firepower. The StuG lost its mobility and along with it its ability to be a threat against not directly ahead, the Panzer IV's turret jammed and they even remembered to clip the M3's 75mm. What's left are a bunch of 37, 47 and one 75mm close support gun, none of which were likely in theory to cause damage to their T-34s and up. Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2013-03-11 at 07:57. Reason: Decided to Open a New Post after all |
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2013-03-11, 03:14 | Link #4502 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Accuracy seems to be fairly bad for all the schools. However standard German tactics would be long range fire, so Maho did set up the ambush correctly. Plot dictates poor accuracy it seems.
But on the other hand, this is sport. Could have been an off day. Every team has an off day.
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2013-03-11, 05:04 | Link #4503 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 54
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Pick the players before the tank? well,.... My choice would be 1. Captain : Darjeeling - She can provide stability and diplomacy that this all-star team ( = lots of strong egos ) needs. I don't remember seeing her make a poor decision. Her team made Final 4 last year and this year as well, right? ( Tank choice : Comet , Centurion, or whatever the best British Tank you can reasonably afford and maintain ) 2. Vice-captain : Nishizumi Miho - you need a miracle worker. The reason I have her as Vice-captain instead of captain is that if you have all-star team, all of them will insist on doing things their way and Miho seems bit timid to keep these strong willed people in control. ( Tank choice : best version of Tiger I or Panzer IV you can reasonably afford and maintain ) 3. Gunner 1 : Nonna - One of few girls who can hit something at long range ( Best Soviet Tank you can reasonably afford and maintain ) 4. Gunner 2 : Naomi - Another girl who can hit something at long range ( Sherman Firefly or M26 Pershing , which ever gives better bang for buck ) 5. Reizei Mako + Akiyama Yukari : I would give the 5th tank to this pair. While the captain or the vice-captain might need their brains and skills, if things get chaotic, you need each tank to be able to make the best decision possible, and this combo might be the best in processing power ( Mako ) and amount of stored data ( Yukari ) . If I have to choose only 1 of the 2, I would choose Akiyama Yukari as she would be the best choice as an aide to the captains. ( Tank choice : E-50 if permitted, though lack of real combat experience may still make this risky choice. Would go with best possible version of Panther, Panzer IV, or Jagdpanther , that you can reasonably afford and maintain. Do note that Jagdpanther has the upgraded transmission that would have solved so many of the problems Panther tank had ) -------------------- You mentioned T-34s, but I heard that in addition to problems with radio and gun-sight, it was a very uncomfortable tank to be in. I also heard that fuel economy of T-34 were not good. Would the crew still stick to T-34 if they were given choice to drive and maintain another tank? (Note: I did hear that T-34s were easier to maintain or repair, so that might be a plus to the crew who have to help out on the repair/maintenance ) Also are there any tanks you would not buy because they are too expensive, too hard to maintain, consume too much fuel, or too uncomfortable for the crews?
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Last edited by wontaek; 2013-03-11 at 05:46. |
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2013-03-11, 06:25 | Link #4504 | |
Megane girl fan
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Age: 55
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Endless "Oh yeah" Soul
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2013-03-11, 10:12 | Link #4505 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well, that is undeniable.
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If Maho is going to follow a German doctrine that emphasizes long range fire, she should follow the doctrine by training her people until they can do just that. Not just skip the training and tell them to fire "as per doctrine" anyway. Quote:
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I'll have to pick Naomi and Nonna. These are the only two super gunners we've seen, and gunnery is both so important and apparently so hard to achieve in Senshadou, that this has to outweigh any other condition. You see good gunner, get good gunner and leave everything else to wait... To be honest, Nonna isn't that good a vice commander anyway. She's always fawning over Katyusha, instead of doing things a vice-commander should be doing if the captain insists on Eating-then-Sleeping. So I have three more people. Nishizumi Miho should take the equivalent of the staff officer role. She's probably will still be relieved to learn she is not commanding anymore, and she does have a bright or at least unconventional mind when it comes to Tankery. Besides, she actually takes gunnery seriously (Oarai gets a very high hit rate by Senshadou standards). In battle she can take the Reserve Platoon to the extent Senshadou has one. So I have two more people. Captain's job will be a toss-up between Kay and Darjeeling, with Kay having a bit of an edge. For one thing, Darjeeling is classy. That is not the same as diplomatic - in fact, one can consider her slightly sarcastic and a bit barby. Besides, the Captain sets the tone of the team, and Darjeeling's team looks a bit too prim and proper for my taste. Further, I have to consider my recruitment. New Tankery pros probably come disproportionately from the big schools - which would mean Saunders, Pravda, St. Glorianna and Kuromorimine. The more carefree Saunders and Pravda tankers probably won't like St. Glorianna's more formal style. Kuromorimine I'm not sure yet - the school is strict, but the students are variable. I don't see Erika doing well in St. Glorianna (though maybe we should stuff her in anyway ... might straighten her out...) Still, maybe this is all moot because the day I didn't want Maho (a Kuromorimean) probably was the day day when I lost all opportunity to recruit from Kuromorimine. The upshot is that a team led by Kay probably appeals to a broader demographic than one led by Darjeeling. The final blow to Darjeeling is her team's gunnery, which even by the low standards of Senshadou is abysmal. No elite gunner. Constant misses at short range on nearly non-moving targets. At least Pravda had an excuse and managed to clip off guns and tracks, and the latter may even be interpreted as a sign of rather good gunnery. For all the flak I put on Kuromorimine's high school gunnery at least they are missing at long range. And Saunders can at least whine that their enemies were running as fast as they can. The scene where all three tanks didn't put effective counterfire on Miho's PzIV as it swept past was almost Momo-worthy. As a final blow, remember that Senshadou drivers are generally as good as their gunners suck, yet a St. Glorianna tank was one of only about three tanks to lose control in show (the others being Volleyball and Mallard team tanks but they were extremely green and the St. Gloriannan tank was not). If all the formality actually led to results Darjeeling would still have a chance, but it doesn't. So Kay it is, now we have 1, the vice captain. Toughie here. I can put Katyusha here, she's not perfect but Nonna will be happy at least, and keeping your sniper gunner happy is important. Besides, she does have charisma, and if I ignore the wiseness of the COA selected in Ep 8, the COA was at least well executed. Kay's probably broad-minded enough to work with her, too - she manages to work with Alice after all. If I ignore that, I can stuff Darjeeling in here, but somehow I don't think she'll be thrilled to work under Kay and the two's work styles are different enough I suspect my team's atmopshere will worsen. Nah, let's not. Let's go with Katyusha and she won't write new plans that revolve around the need for others to dogeza again. |
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2013-03-11, 10:15 | Link #4506 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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2013-03-11, 11:18 | Link #4508 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The late war German tanks all qualify - all of them were a pain to maintain, and they drank up a lot of fuel. Even over distances of 20-30km, it was preferable to move the tanks to a railhead and then move them by train than it was to drive them there.
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2013-03-11, 11:19 | Link #4509 | ||||||
Senior and Demented
Join Date: May 2006
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Until shown otherwise I'm going to assume that the other teams have at least some semblance of plausibility. You are of course free to disagree, but I find motivational and behavioral suspension of disbelief harder to swallow than the un-obtatinium that floats their boats. So for my enjoyment of the series I'm going to stick with my assumption. Quote:
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Maybe Ep11 will change my mind, but I don't judge from previews (because they can be misleading). Quote:
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2013-03-11, 11:31 | Link #4510 | |
Senior and Demented
Join Date: May 2006
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Granted I have a soft spot for clam, reserved, dignified leader types (Jean-Lu anyone?) and Darjeeling is all that (and super cute - love the braids!). She's more forceful/decisive than Miho and would certainly get the best out of Miho's tactical genius and the other girls skills. Darjeeling's got the looks to appeal for the sponsors, Nonna will also fill a specific eye-candy niche and Yukari's geekiness and enthusiasm appeal to the hardcore tread heads. Still I'd consider this to be a bit much of a dream team to be actually affordable. Darjeeling's going to be an expensive draft pick as a Captain with a proven track record. That's going to make it hard to recruit Miho (who regardless of how the last battle turns out will have made a name for herself) or Nonna (who might also have her effectiveness reduced without Katyusha - forget this team going up against Pravda - Nonna might turn coat!). Naomi, Mako and Yukari seem affordable, though I hope Saunders treats their ace shot well.
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2013-03-11, 13:34 | Link #4511 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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For the other teams, I admit it's possible that they have better fit than Polish 7TPs or Chi Has, but the best plausible case for those other schools is that they have kit one step down from what Saunders, Pravda and St. Glorianna carry. If they have similar or better kit they'll be called the tough schools but there seems no indication of that. And if their kit is one step down from the others, they will be sufficiently inferior to Kuromorimine that it won't be much of an accomplishment to win. Which makes one wonder how popular Senshado really is. The total number of schools participating, even accounting for the fact they are in huge carrier ships, is rather low and with the exception of the "greats", any time we actually get to see something of another school's equipment it is plainly as non-competitive as bringing a spruced up family car to Formula 1 racing. But that's another topic. Quote:
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[quote]Hmmm... I recall the scene differently. Seems like the girls are all demoralized, and Miho's giving them a pep talk on "you did your best no shame in losing to an expert team" rather than taking a group that's out for blood and making them doubt themselves. Here's what happened. They were chased into the church and Pravda fired a few more rounds at the church before stopping. Pravda's reps come in and demand surrender. After they leave, everyone was pissed by the arrogant demand. The Volleyball team (Isobe) captain was saying "Who's going to kowtow", Momo is going "She just wants everyone lower than her", Erwin was going "Fight to the end" and even the Freshmen team captain (Sawa) was going "Let's fight this through". Right up to this point, they were out for blood. Then Miho says they are surrounded and if the Pravdans attack simultaneously there might be casualties. Her team expresses support for any decision she makes. It Mako who said first "It was great to have made it to the semi-finals. No need to push it." And that's when things started to get somber ... for a few seconds before Momo protests. This is where Miho effectively echoes Mako's sentiments and comes close to what you remember she said. Cue the runup to the Wham Line. So yes, it is Miho that's splashing cold water, and then had to resurrect the fires in Ep9. It is possible if she just rode on everyone's fighting spirit, we won't ever have to learn about Oarai closing at all. Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2013-03-11 at 13:35. Reason: Mild amendment |
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2013-03-11, 14:14 | Link #4512 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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It is also possible that Ooarai losses the Finals. Episode 12's title is "This Fight Won't Be Dismissed!" ("Ato ni wa Hikenai Tatakai desu!" (あとには退けない戦いです!) )
That could mean a draw or disqualification for all we know. Or the fight is so good it will not be forgotten. Of Miho and Maho's mom want to dismiss the fight entirely and the daughters will not let her.
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2013-03-11, 15:31 | Link #4514 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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For those arguing with manga material, I admit I have not kept up with it, but the parts that I did read did not actually match the anime perfectly. Certain elements were different in the manga. As far as I'm concerned, that means the manga is wrong, and also makes its trustworthiness suspect in areas that the anime did not cover. Until we see an anime representation of the Anzio battle, I will continue to judge it based on what the anime did show.
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2013-03-11, 18:51 | Link #4515 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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If they actually win this one, then its just too perfect. Oorai should lose, keep the school and continue brushing up their senshado. And hey, we leave things open for second season. - Tak
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2013-03-11, 20:46 | Link #4517 |
Moderate Haruhiist
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Very difficult, but overcoming odds has always been part of Ooarai's narrative. So yes, I'm in the camp that Ooarai will win, but how will be obviously up to Mizushima. Entertainment has to be balanced with Verisimilitude.
By the look of the preview it looks like that, at the bare minimum, the Lee will be knocked out in episode 11. Kind of hard to defend it in the middle of a flooded field and without cover.
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2013-03-11, 21:46 | Link #4518 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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So the title is more like "Now it is a Fight from which We Cannot Retreat!" Quote:
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Besides, Rabbit Team is the only "original" (there from Ep1) team not granted its Moment of Awesome yet (I don't think they've even been graced with a hit yet), and this is the last chance. Surely Mizushima won't be so cruel as to make them the butt monkeys to the last... Personal preference would be for them to take out Erika's tank. It'll be tough because the M3 is not known as a tank killer, but if you stuff a T45 HVAP into the gun (T45 HVAP won't be a standard loadout, but then the M2 gun is just a older, shorter version of the M3 gun that does use it so the HVAP should feed and fire at a lower velocity, there should be enough for a side, or even lower front hull penetration. And it'll be the ultimate comedic end of Erika, who richly deserves such a slap. |
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2013-03-11, 22:38 | Link #4519 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The only way to make Erika's defeat more demeaning would be to somehow have the Type 89 take her out instead, and I don't think even the best of contrivances could arrange for that to be possible.
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2013-03-11, 22:47 | Link #4520 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Moreover, I believe humility can serve as one of life's greatest lessons. - Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-03-11 at 23:16. |
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comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
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