(L) Noragami

[Kafriel]

IMO Yato's sense of punishment is the guilt that piled up on Yukine - it was extreme and suicidal for both of them, but at least the burnt hand is the best teacher and Yukine experienced the full meaning of "consequences of your actions". Conversely, had Yato called Yukine out on every sin he had committed, Yukine wouldn't truly understand why the things he did were wrong - besides Yato's nagging about them.

Anyway, maybe not the best way to handle the matter but at least this is now over. Maybe now Yato can focus on fulfilling Hiyori's request...NOT^^

[bakaouji]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Not doing anything and being AWOL all the time is also a way to be a bad father - not an abusive one, but still bad.

lol true. But I was trying to imply that the father who's AWOL is not even being a father at all.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I also wanted to point out that, despite Yato often complained at how Yukine blighted him; Yato never once blamed Yukine for this situation.

But he also didn't do anything to make Yukine feel better and by proxy make him hurt Yato less. Again, if the show acknowledged this I would have no problems at all - but it doesn't. We're supposed to see Yato as awesome for bearing with Yukine, and Yato's role in the whole mess is not acknowledged at all.

For example, when they were fighting Bishamon, Yukine was scared, confused and angry, and Yato of course felt this - and he pretty much told Yukine that he was a wimp who should get his shit together because he was letting Yato down and hindering Yato's performance. Yukine's problems made perfect sense and all he would've needed was some comfort and reassurance from Yato, who failed to give him even that. All the repercussion from this on Yato's part was Hiyori telling him to be nicer to Yukine, and Yato not really complying in any meaningful way.

Originally Posted by shmaster

Really, I feel the blame game is mostly going on in the viewer's head but not between the characters in the shows.

But that's because they're written that way...

[Kazu-kun]

Isn't this the mangakas (they're a team) first work? They have worked as illustrators for other authors before, but I think this if the first time they write the story themselves. And well, it shows. It's all over the place.

And I'm no trying to defend them. Just pointing out a possibility of why the story seems so confusing (and confused) thematically speaking.

Than been said, the plot is interesting and the characters are likable enough (Hiyori is love!), and that's more than I can say about a lot of stuff these days.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But he also didn't do anything to make Yukine feel better and by proxy make him hurt Yato less. Again, if the show acknowledged this I would have no problems at all - but it doesn't. We're supposed to see Yato as awesome for bearing with Yukine, and Yato's role in the whole mess is not acknowledged at all.

For example, when they were fighting Bishamon, Yukine was scared, confused and angry, and Yato of course felt this - and he pretty much told Yukine that he was a wimp who should get his shit together because he was letting Yato down and hindering Yato's performance. Yukine's problems made perfect sense and all he would've needed was some comfort and reassurance from Yato, who failed to give him even that. All the repercussion from this on Yato's part was Hiyori telling him to be nicer to Yukine, and Yato not really complying in any meaningful way.


But that's because they're written that way...

This is what I don't understand, why do you think Yato is portrayed as a awesome hero here? I don't think there is a single viewer in this thread feels this way, yet you seems so bent on believing this is the message the show is trying to tell us.
If anything, I see the show did a good job on showing how dysfunctional an individual Yato is. If I have to complain, the only point I am angry at the show is they change the order of events, which took away the meaning and motive on why Yato bring Hiyori to meet Kofuku.
And the rest is the problem of the system. In the eyes of other cast member, Yukine is in no place to complain as a God do not have to put up with a Shinki like that. They are something that can be easily tossed a way if deemed useless, and since they are already dead, they should be grateful at their chance of un-life in the first place.

To sum it up, I can understand being angry at Yato. I personally find him to be despicable too.
But the show itself did no wrong, things are consistent and in character.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Setting up the resolution of this crisis in the terms of an ablution paints things in pretty stark terms - Yuki is on trial, convicted and sentenced. Repent or die. That it's what must be done in the context of the series canon to save Yato I don't dispute.

That's not what must be done to save Yato. It's what must be done to save Yukine. To save Yato, all they had to do is to get rid of Yukine. Remove his name, or in the extreme case, kill him. No trial necessary at all. Gods aren't bound by morals. If Yukine is inconvenient, Yato can just kill him. But he doesn't.

Let me ask you where you think morals come from, in this world. It's the blight that tells Yato that Yukine has done something wrong. Either, there's an absolute abstract system of morals, or it's Yukine's conscience that's responsible for the blight. I don't believe the series is setting up an absolute moral for two reasons:

- That system would have to be independent from gods, and only accessible to them via dead humans. That seems needlessly convoluted for something we can't grasp anyway.

- Phantoms seem to be born of "bad" emotions. It would make sense to me that that this is one and the same: "bad" is what leads to phantoms.

The problem isn't one of external good or bad, if I'm right. Yukine is acting against his conscience but rationalising away. The only chance he has is to face up to it. He must face up to it. That is not a beaurocratic thing. You can't extort a confession. If he doesn't mean it, he'll turn into a phantom (and take the "judges" with him, as the show implies).

But as Yukine was reading off the litany of his own crimes - pretty theft, lust, lying et al - what I was hearing is, "Yup - that's a teenager". There's a reason the rest of the human species tends to regard adolescents with suspicion and often worse - they're difficult. They can be self-centered and often dishonest. Does that mean they should be killed to make life easier for the adults?

God:Shinki =/= Father:Son, no matter what Hiyori said this episode. There is a key difference: The older generation helps shape the conscience of the younger generation, partly via social sanctions. The younger generation then tests out the limits of that. Thus evolves a conscience.

A god does not pass down morals. Rather they learn about their shinki's morals via the blight system. The trial, as we see it here, is more akin to peer pressure than to parent/child. "Only a shinki can judge another shinki." (And it takes three of them, and if they fail they risk their own existance.)

My guess is that a psychopath shinki would not produce any blight, even if she were to murder people left and right. (I say "she", because I'm specifically thinking of our little Nora. She might be one. A psychopath, who can do bad things with impunity, because she honestly doesn't see anything wrong with it.)

When Yukine got to his greatest crime of all - envy - it only made me more convinced I'm not connecting the dots the way Noragami is. Why in the hell shouldn't Yukine feel anger at his lot in life, when he's denied so many things the average child his age is not? Yeah, he's annoying and surly and exercises poor judgment but I just don't see why that makes him the villain in all this.

This isn't about some abstract system of right or wrong. Sustained envy is bad for the soul. It attracts phantoms that already exist, and probably creates new ones, if you're no longer protected by your body.

I don't think the key here is justice. It's emotional stability. You accept your lot, and then you either embrace it or try to change it. But you don't sit around feeling bad feelings. There may be parameters here: how intense are your emotions, how much can you bear...

Frankly, it's the system that sucks - dead people are used as weapons by Gods and expected to like it, and if they display very normal fallibilities and weaknesses they can bring their master to the verge of death. It's not that Yukine is such a terrible kid - if anything, the moral of the story is that 14 year-old boys should damn well never be shinki, because they're pretty much all like this (or would be, in Yukine's shoes).

I agree with this - to an extent.

Where all this really gets difficult - and interesting - for me is that I'm not sure what the series is asking me to think and feel here. That's been the case for a while, and I'm no closer to knowing even now that the arc is complete. Are we supposed to believe that Yukine got exactly what was coming to him or are we to rage at the injustice of the system?

Neither. We're supposed to be reliefed that everything turned out fine in the end. I don't think moral judgement comes into it at all.

And we're supposed to realise just what the three shinki actually risked to save both Yato and Yukine. This is more about recognising the threads of the social web this show is weaving.

For example: If Bishamon were a shinki rather than a god, her feelings of vengeance would lead to a blight: right or wrong?

What we have here, it seems, is a very typical dysfunctional family, right down to the adolescent son being the scapegoat for all their problems - with the one important caveat that the cost of that dysfunction is the father dying in agony unless the son is killed or set straight. Like I said, I blame the system more than the participants - but whether I'm supposed to, I've no idea.

Here's how I see the system:

Humans have problems. They ask gods for help. That relationship gives gods their power. More believers is more power.

Humans' problems also create and attract phantoms. Those phantoms feed on and exacerbate these problems. Gods are powerless against these phantoms, unless they have weapons that come, yet again, from humans (dead ones, in that case).

But these weapons have themselves the potential to turn into phantoms. The closer they are to phantoms, the less effective they are on them. Makes sense, no?

So where do the gods find these weapons? Clearly, they have to linger. Why do dead people not pass on (presumably to the "far shore", but I'm not sure about that). Clearly, not all dead people hang around. I expect dead people who hang around to have certain hang-ups, or unresolved issues that keep them back. And that makes them vulnerable to phantomisation.

So what do you think happens to dead people who stick around and don't become a shinki? I see three possibilities: they hang around until they disappear; they hang around until they turn into phantoms; or they hang around until they pass on. That little girl who waited for her mother certainly turned into a phantom. If Yukine hadn't happened by her, how long would she have held out?

The world's an unfair place: you either accept that and move on, or you don't. Between these two poles sit Gods and phantoms; Gods feed on hope and phantoms feed on despair. But ultimately humans are alone with their emotions and have to resolve their issues.

If people didn't have bad emotions there would be no phantoms; but they also wouldn't pray to gods. Yato quite literally can't "lower himself to Yukine's level". No matter what he does, it won't create a phantom. He can feel all the bad emotions he wants to (or doesn't want to) and he'll still stick around. He's invulnerable to his own feelings; but he's not invulnerable to his shinki's feelings. The shinki on the other hand is invulnerable to what the god feels, but very vulnerable to his own feelings.

Except that they also interact in the real world (not only through their spirit link - embodied by the naming) and what the god does (as opposed to what s/he feels) has an effect on the shinki's feelings. So, yeah, Yato wasn't helpful, but any mistake during a communication could probably escalate the problem.

If a father told his teenage son that his regular teenage troubles are going to kill him, how do you think that would make the son feel? I think there's a very good risk of double blighting.

Rather than in terms of justice or social responsibility systems, I think the show works on a level of tranquility vs. emotional imbalance. That's where good and bad lie; and only what was once humans is susceptible to that (Gods only through a spirit link with a human; and that makes sense, since their power comes from our hopes, too).

I may be wrong, but that's how see it. Am I making any sense?

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Isn't this the mangakas (they're a team) first work? They have worked as illustrators for other authors before, but I think this if the first time they write the story themselves. And well, it shows. It's all over the place.

And I'm no trying to defend them. Just pointing out a possibility of why the story seems so confusing (and confused) thematically speaking.

Than been said, the plot is interesting and the characters are likable enough (Hiyori is love!), and that's more than I can say about a lot of stuff these days.

Adachi? She worked by herself. But her mentor was dead by the time she started on this, and she admitted she had been spoiled with her mentor guiding her through 21 volumes of Alive (their previous work). But can I easily see how her mentor had continued to influence her in this manga, in both how the plot ties itself together in their functional structure, or how its casts are characterized.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I may be wrong, but that's how see it. Am I making any sense?

It makes sense, but the issue is that if this is what the show is going for, it doesn't portray it properly. Our primary pot of view and the main player who saves the day is Hiyori, and she doesn't see it that way. As a result, we are left with an unclear message.

Originally Posted by shmaster

Adachi? She worked by herself.

I thought Adachi was a pen name for two women. That's what I heard at the very least. And I did know they worked with the author of Alive. They illustrated the manga for him if I remember correctly.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I thought Adachi was a pen name for two women. That's what I heard at the very least. And I did know they worked with the author of Alive. They illustrated the manga for him if I remember correctly.

Sorry, I meant to say Adachi handled the plot writing this time.

And yes, Adachi and Toka are a team.
Adachi drew characters and Toka handles the background.

[White Manju Bun]

Well can't say I didn't see this ending coming, figured neither would actually die. I was glad that Kazuma did help.

I still think Yukine deserved a bit more of an actual punishement, even before the absolution (sp?) started. I mean the kid is a jerk. Of course Yato didn't help much but still he was a jerk They both were jerks

Not sure I totally buy Hiyori's lecture to Yukine being the reason he stayed but if that works for the writers then Im good.

Interesting to see what the next 3 epis will be since this arc is over.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Kyouka

so i started watching epiosde 9 and i was like whoa did it skip a episode?
then i realized i forgot to watch episode 8 gosh jolly being busy irl sucks hehe

I skipped episode 8 too wondering what was happening. Well at least we have some decent development finishing.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I may be wrong, but that's how see it. Am I making any sense?

I'm not saying you don't (even though I don't quite agree) but tbh I'm not sure this is what the point is supposed to be. The more comments I read all over the internet, the more I think that we're supposed to think that Yukine is a horrible, bratty, annoying, etc. character who should've gotten an ever harder punishment, and Yato is an awkward but noble soul who almost sacrificed his own life trying to save Yukine, and Yukine can never repay him for his kindness - because this is the most common reaction I see, and frankly it resonates with the vibe I'm getting from the show. (Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong places, but I remember people who read the manga warning about Yukine being horribly unlikeable, and how everyone would hate him.)

Which makes me think that if this is NOT what the anime/manga is trying to say then it's not doing a good job at getting its point across...

[apotheosis]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

God:Shinki =/= Father:Son, no matter what Hiyori said this episode. There is a key difference: The older generation helps shape the conscience of the younger generation, partly via social sanctions. The younger generation then tests out the limits of that. Thus evolves a conscience.

A god does not pass down morals. Rather they learn about their shinki's morals via the blight system. The trial, as we see it here, is more akin to peer pressure than to parent/child. "Only a shinki can judge another shinki." (And it takes three of them, and if they fail they risk their own existance.)

I agree. Societies keep control of/teach children in a variety of ways. There are guilt societies like Christianity as well as shame based societies like the ancient greeks ... or fear based societies that rely on martial control/etc (fascists, nazis, etc) . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society

However, the Shinki don't try to learn the list of Yukine's crimes and judge him based on some value system. The key is for him to confess & make peace with the dissonance that he created for himself.

Is it fair that Yukine is harmed to this extent for relatively petty crimes? Certainly not under any human system, but that is hardly by accident. They aren't human! The writer is trying to show how they are alien in many ways, one of which is their system of values & behavior. This is a great writing choice IMO - there are far too many supernatural/alien anime or other stories that put our exact system of values on exotic creatures/races in vastly different situations.

Hiyori is also our window to 'normalcy'. The writer is clearly aware that the value system here is not the same as normal human society & shows us the human reaction by her objecting to what is happening to Yukine! The Shinki and gods are used to this set of values & behavior so don't object & even disagree with Yato's decision to risk himself. I think some people are taking a subset of the cast's opinion for the show's direct voice for what the correct value system is ... which is a mistake. Particularly when there is actually a counterexample given!

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Rather than in terms of justice or social responsibility systems, I think the show works on a level of tranquility vs. emotional imbalance. That's where good and bad lie; and only what was once humans is susceptible to that (Gods only through a spirit link with a human; and that makes sense, since their power comes from our hopes, too).

I may be wrong, but that's how see it. Am I making any sense?

Yes, I tink tranqulity vs emotional imbalance is a greaty way to describe one of the key conflicts of this show.

Both Yato and Yukine apologize to everyone & particularly Hiyori at the end of the ep ... so I don't see it as the show blaming just one person.

[Preciize]

Not really one to hate on Yukine, but his facial expression in the beginning made me wish I could punch him. Yato is dying because of HIM and instead of having any kind of regret, he has that look of disgust on his face. What a douchebag.

NOW! Now, that I've gotten that off my chest I'm glad everything ended well. Touching scene at the end (loved the OST). Glad that Yukine finally wholeheartedly apologized for everything he did. Sometimes something horrible has to happen for someone to truly repent for their actions and make a change. Yato and Hiyori are both great and I hope Yukine can appreciate them both going forward.

I hope Kazama won't be punished for helping Yato. And I wonder if the guy with Nora also used to be one of Yato's Regelia.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I'm not saying you don't (even though I don't quite agree) but tbh I'm not sure this is what the point is supposed to be. The more comments I read all over the internet, the more I think that we're supposed to think that Yukine is a horrible, bratty, annoying, etc. character who should've gotten an ever harder punishment, and Yato is an awkward but noble soul who almost sacrificed his own life trying to save Yukine, and Yukine can never repay him for his kindness - because this is the most common reaction I see, and frankly it resonates with the vibe I'm getting from the show. (Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong places, but I remember people who read the manga warning about Yukine being horribly unlikeable, and how everyone would hate him.)

Which makes me think that if this is NOT what the anime/manga is trying to say then it's not doing a good job at getting its point across...

For me, the writing was subtle and effective. Take, for example, the scene where Yukine applies for a job with Tenjin. Tenjin explains names to Hiyori, but the anime does not rub our nose into the fact that Mayu (formerly Tomone) now works for him. But this has implications: what if Yukine had asked Yato to resign?

I admit to a certain bias. In real life, I often have a hard time taking sides, or casting blame. This is part of why I gravitate towards anime: it's easier, on avarage, to watch an anime without playing judge than a comparable western show. (Of course, personal responsibility in anime comes at a higher social price, too.)

I admit to surprise on both fronts: I never saw Yukine as a particularly bad boy, nor did I ever see Yato as a hero. I tend to agree, for example, with your assessment of Yato's not trying to communicate with Yukine (though I'm probably more pessimistic about the sucesschance and the involved risk), but I think that's entirely in character. Yato is the type to teach you swim by throwing you into the water; he doesn't intend to let you drown, but he does seem a bit of a gambler that way. (None of this is quite conclusive: for example, I can fit Yato's dreams of grandeur into this, but it's not quite a natural fit. It's more an impression-in-progress, if you see what I mean.)

Originally Posted by apotheosis

Both Yato and Yukine apologize to everyone & particularly Hiyori at the end of the ep ... so I don't see it as the show blaming just one person.

I'm quite happy to read your post; it makes me feel less... strange. This particular instance, though, isn't conclusive, I think. I tend to agree with your assessment (but I'd have to re-listen to Yato's inner monologue to be sure), but this scene can easily be seen as Yato apologising for Yukine. Especially if you see Yato/Yukine as some sort of father/son or aniki/otouto relationship. Rather than an admission of being wrong, this could be a display of manners. Yato would be apologising by association with Yukine, not for anything he himself has done.

I can't rule out that interpretation even for my way of viewing the show.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by apotheosis

Is it fair that Yukine is harmed to this extent for relatively petty crimes? Certainly not under any human system, but that is hardly by accident. They aren't human! The writer is trying to show how they are alien in many ways, one of which is their system of values & behavior. This is a great writing choice IMO - there are far too many supernatural/alien anime or other stories that put our exact system of values on exotic creatures/races in vastly different situations.

Hiyori is also our window to 'normalcy'. The writer is clearly aware that the value system here is not the same as normal human society & shows us the human reaction by her objecting to what is happening to Yukine! The Shinki and gods are used to this set of values & behavior so don't object & even disagree with Yato's decision to risk himself. I think some people are taking a subset of the cast's opinion for the show's direct voice for what the correct value system is ... which is a mistake. Particularly when there is actually a counterexample given!

I second and third and fourth this!
Exactly what's on my mind!
The characters are simply working things out in their own system that just happen to be different from us. Saying this is a blame game really appears to be a leap of logic to me.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I admit to surprise on both fronts: I never saw Yukine as a particularly bad boy, nor did I ever see Yato as a hero. I tend to agree, for example, with your assessment of Yato's not trying to communicate with Yukine (though I'm probably more pessimistic about the sucesschance and the involved risk), but I think that's entirely in character. Yato is the type to teach you swim by throwing you into the water; he doesn't intend to let you drown, but he does seem a bit of a gambler that way. (None of this is quite conclusive: for example, I can fit Yato's dreams of grandeur into this, but it's not quite a natural fit. It's more an impression-in-progress, if you see what I mean.)

My problem is that there's a very clear imbalance in their positions that the show doesn't seem to consider (nor most viewers from what I see), which makes me unable to see Yukine and Yato as equals. Yukine is a child stuck in a really horrible situation that he doesn't quite understand; Yato is a millennia-old deity who is perfectly aware of everything, and who is also in a guardian position for Yukine. From where I stand, Yato bears most of the responsibility since he's the one who 1) knows everything, and 2) is in the position to do something to prevent things getting really bad. But the show doesn't seem to acknowledge this, and treats the situation as Yato being really considerate and kind in his own way, and Yukine being too ignorant and wicked to appreciate it until Hiyori figuratively slaps him and makes him see how his thoughts and actions are hurting Yato, and makes him realize how great and kind Yato is for bearing with him.

(Never mind that the show seems to treat the whole situation for Yato as a choice between two extremes: get rid of Yukine, or die because of him. It's like "reach out to him" "try to comfort him" etc. are not even options. Hiyori tried to do this with Yukine, and while naturally it didn't work for various reasons, for a while I thought the show was going for Yato realizing he needs to treat Yukine better; but then it turns out that according to the show Hiyori was misguided and Yato's way was the right one. Gah!)

As I said, I wouldn't be so sour over this arc if Yato's responsibility was at least acknowledged in any way, but it wasn't. If Yukine has to apologize to Yato then Yato also needs to apologize to Yukine (and everyone else).

Maybe the show is trying to present a "non-human" system, but if that's the case, it completely fails to address how cruel and unfair it is from a human's perspective (re: Hiyori admitting that she was mistaken and defending Yato's way of thinking in the last ep), and in fact it seems to agree with how the system works.

[Dark Wing]

So I guess everyone is agreeing that while this arc wasn't a bad one it could've been handled a little better and wrapped up a bit tighter?

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

(Never mind that the show seems to treat the whole situation for Yato as a choice between two extremes: get rid of Yukine, or die because of him. It's like "reach out to him" "try to comfort him" etc. are not even options. Hiyori tried to do this with Yukine, and while naturally it didn't work for various reasons, for a while I thought the show was going for Yato realizing he needs to treat Yukine better; but then it turns out that according to the show Hiyori was misguided and Yato's way was the right one. Gah!)

I do get what you mean. But I think it's just the return swing of the Hiyori pendulum. It's the character arc structure: we've been dealing with Yukine's problem for now. Hiyori is smart, but she's morally naive. She's the type to make such judgements (reflected in her almost childish admiration for that wrestler, and her heroic impulses, too). I think what we've seen so far is thesis and antithesis. Synthesis is yet to come.

Hiyori: wait, is Yato even working on my problem? That unreliable bastard! Look how he's treating poor Yukine. Oh, wait, he does have a reason for this after all. So he's kind after all. Oh, good.

She's chronically incapable of heeding warnings. She misinterprets it when Yato tells her to go to Kofuku should "something happen to him". I don't think she accurately gauged his motivation during the suicide episode. She's chronically uncapable to grasp the darker aspects of the phantoms: to her, they're more like monsters to defeat. She has that heroic impulse to rescue people, and that's in sharp contrast to Yato, who usually lets people work out things for themselves.

So, yeah, I think we're seing the backswing of the Hiyori pendulum of naivity. Hiyori's point of view is not the statement of the show. Since the upcoming arc is anime orignial, I doubt I'll get to learn whether I've been wrong (wouldn't be the first time).

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I do get what you mean. But I think it's just the return swing of the Hiyori pendulum.
...
She's chronically incapable of heeding warnings. She misinterprets it when Yato tells her to go to Kofuku should "something happen to him".

Maybe I missed something, but from what I saw there were two things in connection with Hiyori:
1) She barely knows anything because Yato doesn't bother telling her anything really important. (For some reason he tells her a bit more than he tells Yukine, though, but most of that is still cryptic fragments.) Therefore I don't think she can be faulted for misinterpreting things and situations. How should have she known what he really meant when he said "should something happen to me go to Kofuku" when she didn't know what was happening to him due to Yukine's thoughts and actions, and to what extent?

(Really, the more I think about it, the more everything comes down to Yato simply failing to communicate with Yukine and Hiyori.)

2) Therefore she does what she deems best in any given moment. Yato is an unreliable guardian? She takes on trying to help Yukine. Yato pursued by Bishamonten? She goes to Kofuku because Yato told her to go to Kofuku if something happens to him. Ayakashi are threatening people and Yato seems unwilling to deal with them? She tries to take them out herself.

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

She has that heroic impulse to rescue people, and that's in sharp contrast to Yato, who usually lets people work out things for themselves.

And see where that got him and Yukine...

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Hiyori: wait, is Yato even working on my problem? That unreliable bastard! Look how he's treating poor Yukine. Oh, wait, he does have a reason for this after all. So he's kind after all. Oh, good.

But from her POV she's right, and she has no mind-reading skills. Is Yato working on her problem as she'd paid him to do? No, even though nothing seems to be stopping him. And as for Yukine - I still don't see how Yato had a good reason for treating Yukine the way he did, and I found Hiyori's sudden turnaround and acceptance was very jarring.

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

So I guess everyone is agreeing that while this arc wasn't a bad one it could've been handled a little better and wrapped up a bit tighter?

Let's just say that this arc wasn't a bad one and it could've been great, but the resolution and the wrap-up was a HUGE let-down, and unless something extremely awesome happens in the last episodes I'm going to remember the show as "that story which treats its first main conflict in a really cringe-worthy way."