The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 12]

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

That he stops recording after the flash and then starts up again is interesting.

Isn't it just Yuki's hand blocking the view ?

[ac195]

I'll say it again, those peeps who are grasping at straws to still hate on Haruhi are just still butthurt about E8 or just lingering trolls.

I love how they can pick apart a show by just a single paused frame... one you wouldn't even notice unless you went into the show with an already negative mind set.

[Nochgo]

These last few episode was pretty well done I thought, except the animation. The Sighs section of the novel was one of few novel parts i skipped, so its enjoyable to watch the process of the movie making. The more and more I watch, the more affection I feel for Mikuru (which was never there until now) and more annoyed I get at Haruhi, but well, Haruhi is just being Haruhi I guess.

Lol at Koizumi snagging the contacts. Wonder if he is excited to add laser beam eye to his list of esper powers.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Nochgo

Lol at Koizumi snagging the contacts. Wonder if he is excited to add laser beam eye to his list of esper powers.

Probably not, since Nagato specifically says that the contact has no actual power. It's just Mikuru with alternate color eye = Mikuru Beam.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by GDB

Probably not, since Nagato specifically says that the contact has no actual power. It's just Mikuru with alternate color eye = Mikuru Beam.

...minus the variants Nagato has crossed of the list with each bite.

[Ithekro]

Isn't it just Yuki's hand blocking the view ?

Partly, but the pause would be too long, and he moves the camera to a downward angle...before Yuki intercepts shot number two (which would have unblocked the camera lens to looking at concrete). After shot number three, at Itsuki, Kyon brings the camera back up and Yuki takes off running.

It is possible that they editted some of that in post, but it looks more like he stopped recording when the screen blacked out on him, then started up just before Yuki took off running, since in the film you see the flash, darkness, refocus on Mikuru's face, Mikuru drops her arm, then Yuki tackles her....followed by Kyon's hand (and body) movements as he runs over to them. He then turns off the camera.

I wonder if he has it set so that it will only record when his thumb is holding the button rather than press it once to record. I somehow remember the older Sony camcorders use to work like that.

[worldruined]

Originally Posted by Nochgo

Lol at Koizumi snagging the contacts. Wonder if he is excited to add laser beam eye to his list of esper powers.

Nah, he has to add it to the Organization's collection of Holy Haruhi Relics.

[Archon_Wing]

A very good episode, I thought. Unlike something like Sighs I, where I was sometimes checking to see when it was going to end, this one kept me watching. Also, I didn't find anything wrong with the art; which I did in the previous episodes.

There's plenty of funny moments such as the comment about hardcore fans, Haruhi's BB guns, Kyon's camera focus, and the note about executing people twice. Haruhi is quite the dictator. We learn the reason for Yuki's odd behavior in episode 00, and as usual she saves the day.

Of course, the story itself is kinda meh, with Haruhi's over the topness bordering on sadism, outright crossing into it when Mikuru gets sick, and seemingly undoing practically all the character development she has gone through for the sake of a few cheap laughs at Mikuru's expense. It feels out of character even for her. But at least Kyon tries to intervene, to keep her enthusiasm from going too far and the other two are trying to help. 8/10

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Of course, the story itself is kinda meh, with Haruhi's over the topness bordering on sadism, outright crossing into it when Mikuru gets sick, and seemingly undoing practically all the character development she has gone through for the sake of a few cheap laughs at Mikuru's expense. It feels out of character even for her. But at least Kyon tries to intervene, to keep her enthusiasm from going too far and the other two are trying to help. 8/10

This is a bit off-topic, but... Sighs, as a novel, may have been a slight overcompensation on the author's part. I think that Sighs is meant to demonstrate that Haruhi's core characterization, drives, and personality has not been altered whatsoever by the events of the Melancholy novel. Sighs is meant to show that the end of the Melancholy novel is not a permanent solution to a permanent problem but merely an one-time solution for an unique problem (the problem could, in theory, rise again, but it is an unique problem). In other words, the overarching issues arising from Haruhi's character remain. She's still impulsive, she's still reckless, she's still overbearing, and she's still lacking empathy for the feelings of others.

Sighs is meant to hammer that home, and to show that there's an awful lot of work left to be done on the part of the rest of the SOS Brigade.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is a bit off-topic, but... Sighs, as a novel, may have been a slight overcompensation on the author's part. I think that Sighs is meant to demonstrate that Haruhi's core characterization, drives, and personality has not been altered whatsoever by the events of the Melancholy novel. Sighs is meant to show that the end of the Melancholy novel is not a permanent solution to a permanent problem but merely an one-time solution for an unique problem (the problem could, in theory, rise again, but it is an unique problem). In other words, the overarching issues arising from Haruhi's character remain. She's still impulsive, she's still reckless, she's still overbearing, and she's still lacking empathy for the feelings of others.

Sighs is meant to hammer that home, and to show that there's an awful lot of work left to be done on the part of the rest of the SOS Brigade.

Yea, fair enough. I do actually think Sighs is appropriate as it offers the question of "how much you can take", but a bit too extreme. But as (wikipedia shows) this is set after stories like Lone Island Syndrome and gah... Endless Eight , I'd think Haruhi has gained some kind of concern of what others want. I found the part where Haruhi is demanding Mikuru shoot a beam to stretch my suspension of belief. Yes, she made an excuse about that, but I don't think she's the type of person to confuse metaphors with reality. She's a smart person, and she would not expect something out of someone that can't happen. Now those outfits, are another story.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I found the part where Haruhi is demanding Mikuru shoot a beam to stretch my suspension of belief. Yes, she made an excuse about that, but I don't think she's the type of person to confuse metaphors with reality. She's a smart person, and she would not expect something out of someone that can't happen. Now those outfits, are another story.

Two possibilities with that scene (which I'll admit is a bit bizarre at first glance):

1. Haruhi simply wasn't clear enough initially about what she wanted. Like she explained to Kyon after he intervened, she simply wanted Mikuru to act like she was shooting a beam. This is a believable possibility because Haruhi's directing skills are, well, a bit on the novice side shall we say. I think that most Haruhi fans are used to seeing Haruhi excel at whatever she does... so seeing her flailing like this (and she really is flailing at making this movie; Kyon's snark about the quality of the movie-making itself is quite justified) may be a bit jarring. Maybe Haruhi's not being mean so much as she doesn't really have a clue in this world of how detailed and specific Movie Directors should be.


2. This is the more intriguing possibility, but it's also the one most fraught with raising other issues. Perhaps Haruhi knows more than she's letting on. Perhaps at some subconscious level, Haruhi knows she can bend reality. "Mikuru, shoot that beam for me! You can do it... I'm giving you the power to do it!" Or... maybe a better way of stating it is that Haruhi has grown used to the world bending to her wishes, and since she now wishes for Mikuru to shoot a beam...

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Two possibilities with that scene (which I'll admit is a bit bizarre at first glance):

1. Haruhi simply wasn't clear enough initially about what she wanted. Like she explained to Kyon after he intervened, she simply wanted Mikuru to act like she was shooting a beam. This is a believable possibility because Haruhi's directing skills are, well, a bit on the novice side shall we say. I think that most Haruhi fans are used to seeing Haruhi excel at whatever she does... so seeing her flailing like this (and she really is flailing at making this movie; Kyon's snark about the quality of the movie-making itself is quite justified) may be a bit jarring. Maybe Haruhi's not being mean so much as she doesn't really have a clue in this world of how detailed and specific Movie Directors should be.

Yes, this is the more logical explanation and the episode clarified pretty quickly. It just didn't initially come across as that to me. It really looked like Haruhi wanted a beam to come out, being so unusually forceful rather than her typical grabbing you and dragging you along routine.

2. This is the more intriguing possibility, but it's also the one most fraught with raising other issues. Perhaps Haruhi knows more than she's letting on. Perhaps at some subconscious level, Haruhi knows she can bend reality. "Mikuru, shoot that beam for me! You can do it... I'm giving you the power to do it!" Or... maybe a better way of stating it is that Haruhi has grown used to the world bending to her wishes, and since she now wishes for Mikuru to shoot a beam...

That's an extremely disturbing possbility.

[Ithekro]

Interestingly enough, Sigh was the second novel. At the time there was only Melancholy and no other stories out yet. We are introduced to Tsuruya in this novel, and see just how far Haruhi can go. Before getting the other stories that come between Melancholy and Sigh which shows other aspect of Haruhi and the other's personalities, and after as we see Haruhi normalizing in the aftermath of Sigh.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Interestingly enough, Sigh was the second novel. At the time there was only Melancholy and no other stories out yet. We are introduced to Tsuruya in this novel, and see just how far Haruhi can go. Before getting the other stories that come between Melancholy and Sigh which shows other aspect of Haruhi and the other's personalities, and after as we see Haruhi normalizing in the aftermath of Sigh.

Not quite. Sighs was the second story compiled into a volume, but it is the fifth story serialized in the magazine. The first four were Boredom, Melancholy, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, and Mysterique Sign.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Two possibilities with that scene (which I'll admit is a bit bizarre at first glance):

1. Haruhi simply wasn't clear enough initially about what she wanted. Like she explained to Kyon after he intervened, she simply wanted Mikuru to act like she was shooting a beam. This is a believable possibility because Haruhi's directing skills are, well, a bit on the novice side shall we say. I think that most Haruhi fans are used to seeing Haruhi excel at whatever she does... so seeing her flailing like this (and she really is flailing at making this movie; Kyon's snark about the quality of the movie-making itself is quite justified) may be a bit jarring. Maybe Haruhi's not being mean so much as she doesn't really have a clue in this world of how detailed and specific Movie Directors should be.


2. This is the more intriguing possibility, but it's also the one most fraught with raising other issues. Perhaps Haruhi knows more than she's letting on. Perhaps at some subconscious level, Haruhi knows she can bend reality. "Mikuru, shoot that beam for me! You can do it... I'm giving you the power to do it!" Or... maybe a better way of stating it is that Haruhi has grown used to the world bending to her wishes, and since she now wishes for Mikuru to shoot a beam...

3. Haruhi's reality-engineering powers feed off in part from the almost-photographic imagination of the girl. I'd imagine that Haruhi has an active enough imagination that she can visualize the objections of her imagination as if it did actually happen in rea life.

So in the case of the Mikuru Beam, it's probably likely that Haruhi imagined and "saw" what it would have been like if Mikuru actually shot a photon laser out of her eye....and by "seeing" it, caused it to actually happen. So say when Mikuru turned towards Itsuki, Haruhi imagines the Mikuru Beam bisecting the reflector board....and it happens.

However like Itsuki said, Haruhi does have some kind of "common sense", so when she notices the board is broken, her "common sense" dictated that it was the result of substandard quality. It simply doesn't occur to her that the board might actually have been hit by a beam like she imagined it happening, because you know, that can't be real, can it?

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Not quite. Sighs was the second story compiled into a volume, but it is the fifth story serialized in the magazine. The first four were Boredom, Melancholy, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, and Mysterique Sign.

So... anyone else up for watching the series in "Magazine order" after this run is finished? You can skip seven of the Endless Eights if you want.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Two possibilities with that scene (which I'll admit is a bit bizarre at first glance):

As for me, I had the feeling she simply wanted to vent her jealousy on Mikuru. She seems to be pretty irritated with Kyon's eyes being constantly on her, and her sadism toward her seemed to me to be just a bit TOO MUCH to be only her usual jerkassery.

On a completely different point, I'm a bit surprised, for a serie including such advanced scientific references, that the reflector was broken so, well, "un-cleanly".
First, it didn't seemed burnt on the edge, as would be the case with a laser.
Second, the cut was very jarred, while it should have been one continuous line or curve.
Finally, as a reflecting surface, I'm not even sure it should have been damaged (it heavily depends on the amount of reflectivity it has, though, which admitedly isn't that much).

[Friday]

mikuru beeeaaammmm..........for real!!!!!!

yuki fight with her.......it looked more intense than then I originally thought!!!!!!

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by worldruined

Nah, he has to add it to the Organization's collection of Holy Haruhi Relics.

They probably do have these...

Thanks for the idea.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

It simply doesn't occur to her that the board might actually have been hit by a beam like she imagined it happening, because you know, that can't be real, can it?

I am, again, reminded of Umineko.

It does NOT help that Koizumi and Battler sound the exact same.

[-Sho-]

Finally some actions !
Mikuru is too cute but cry too much :/
Damn , Haruhi began to be annoying ... poor Mikuru .
Lol Kyon was brushed by the Mikuru beam !!
I agree with Kyon for Nagato ! Talks more please !!!