Learning Japanese

[Pink Cow]

@Raiga and Sylphic,
Thanks for explaining! It looks like another toughie though, like tokoro and basho. D:

Originally Posted by larethian

I can also throw in a "絶対" vs "必ず"

definitions:
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...5%A8%E9%83%A8/
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...1%B9%E3%81%A6/

examples:
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%85%A8%E9%83%A8/UTF-8/
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E3%81%99%E3%81%B9%E3%81%A6/UTF-8/

some research:
http://bulo.hjenglish.com/question/163394/
http://lang-8.com/47463/journals/900...25EF%25BC%259F

My understanding is that it seems like most people (myself included until today), get the impression that すべて and 全部 are not entirely the same and used with different nuances. But if you go through every example on alc, すべて can be pretty much used where 全部 is used and vice versa, true to the definitions prescribed in the dictionary. Though I believe that the examples given by risingstar3110 can be ambiguous without a context and might be resolved by making the sentences more specific. Finally, it seems like the general consensus is that 全部 is used more in informal speech (and never appears in 'news' according to the quote from the person on lang8) and すべて is used in writing and formal speech (and never by children, it seems). Perhaps, only the academics can tell us whether they is any real difference between them.

I apologize if I missed something or made a mistake.

OMG, I didn't know there was another word like "zettai". Hahaha!

Thanks for the links and the explanation!

[JINNSK]

Originally Posted by Pink Cow

I have another question about Japanese. ^^;

As far as I know, "all" or "everything" is translated to ぜんぶ or すべて.
Now, my question is kinda like ばしょ and ところ.

Is there a difference between zenbu and subete?

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?dtype...81%B9%E3%81%A6

[用法] すべて・全部・みな――「植木がすべて（全部・みな）枯れた」「株で失敗して財産をすべて（全部・みな）失 った」「島民はすべて（全部・みな）避難した」など、相通じて用いられる。◇「すべて」「全部」は、「在庫 はすべて（全部）売り切れた」「会員すべて（全部）が反対だ」のように、物についても人についても使う。◇ 「みな」は「みな、出かけようか」という代名詞としての用法があるように、特に人について多く使われる。「 みなで協力しよう」「みな帰ってしまった」などの文脈では「すべて」「全部」は不適当である。 ◇「すべて」は文章語的で、「みな」「全部」は口語的である。

Please translate the red.It explains the difference between subete/zenbu.But recent Japanese don't necessarily follow it.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by JINNSK

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?dtype...81%B9%E3%81%A6

Please translate the red.It explains the difference between subete/zenbu.But recent Japanese don't necessarily follow it.

It's as what I've mentioned with regards to the consensus.
Subete is more for writing, Zenbu is more for speech.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Edijs

Look here

Spoiler for Look Genki:

You see i dont know if its 2011 edition or older. Its bit hard to use those PDF all time roll down, roll up , thats way i want book to write something in it. and use when PC is OFF. Yes its for my self study

Then yeah, buy either a brand new one or a nice used one. If you're planning on using it for a long time, it's better to have it look nice, at least when you first get it. It's expensive, but if you really want it, you're gonna have to just suck it up and deal.

btw I heard that Genki isn't the best for self study, though it is a good book. I only used Genki I for my first Japanese class, so I'm not sure how true that statement is. Are you self-studying to learn the whole language? or for a trip to Japan or something? If the latter, I have a better book for you to look into.

[Edijs]

Originally Posted by Komari

Then yeah, buy either a brand new one or a nice used one. If you're planning on using it for a long time, it's better to have it look nice, at least when you first get it. It's expensive, but if you really want it, you're gonna have to just suck it up and deal.

btw I heard that Genki isn't the best for self study, though it is a good book. I only used Genki I for my first Japanese class, so I'm not sure how true that statement is. Are you self-studying to learn the whole language? or for a trip to Japan or something? If the latter, I have a better book for you to look into.

For self study becouse i like that language its good to know becouse i want to read japanese books/novels , ima is watching anime and so . But yes i want really visit in my life Tokyo , maybe when i be finished school and have money then i visit
What is that book what you used? I used Rosetta Stone but i broke my microphone so i cant use it anymore :|

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Edijs

For self study becouse i like that language its good to know becouse i want to read japanese books/novels , ima is watching anime and so . But yes i want really visit in my life Tokyo , maybe when i be finished school and have money then i visit
What is that book what you used? I used Rosetta Stone but i broke my microphone so i cant use it anymore :|

I've never used that text before so I won't know. But my recommendation is never use a text that has romaji.

[Alchemist007]

I recommend starting with a real teacher/class. The basics you definitely don't want to get wrong, otherwise you come off sounding like a buffoon. There's nothing wrong with romanji, obviously you would need it if you don't know a kana of Japanese in the first place

[Edijs]

Where i live there isnt japanese class or teachers maybe in capital city but its maybe, but i live too far from capital city many hours.

[Alchemist007]

While I am not familiar with the geography of "In Illusion of Wind&Fire," there are online solutions. The point is, you want someone who knows theses things (and pronunciations) to teach you. I know there are sites that let you do this for free, I have long forgotten the name however.

[NoemiChan]

I got a mobile English-Japanese Dictionary, well just in case, but hey, why does a Japanese word came to have too many definition? Like 20+?

[Alchemist007]

The same spelling in romanji can have different kanji like Ame which can be written 飴 or 雨. One means candy, the other means rain. Of course I don't know how the dictionary you're using works specifically, so I'm just guessing that's the case. It sounds like that dictionary might be a bit over your head if you didn't know that much (or maybe it's not a great dictionary in the first place).

[Edijs]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

While I am not familiar with the geography of "In Illusion of Wind&Fire," there are online solutions. The point is, you want someone who knows theses things (and pronunciations) to teach you. I know there are sites that let you do this for free, I have long forgotten the name however.

Huh how can you write with kanji letters or hiragana or something like that , i dont have that thing in my PC

you mean online like for pay yes? i know many online adresses but all for money

[Alchemist007]

There are some free kinds, I have used it before but sorry I can't recall the name of the site. You can type Japanese depending on your OS: http://www.coscom.co.jp/learnjapanes...ejapanese.html

[cleffa3000]

Originally Posted by larethian

It's as what I've mentioned with regards to the consensus.
Subete is more for writing, Zenbu is more for speech.

this one u can get the meaning if u know chinese.

but not always the case for some.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Edijs

For self study becouse i like that language its good to know becouse i want to read japanese books/novels , ima is watching anime and so . But yes i want really visit in my life Tokyo , maybe when i be finished school and have money then i visit
What is that book what you used? I used Rosetta Stone but i broke my microphone so i cant use it anymore :|

Oh, well never mind about the book, it's kinda dumb to have if you're trying to master the whole language. But if you're still curious... http://www.dummies.com/store/product...470178132.html

Seriously though, don't buy it unless you're going to Japan, like, next week and need to know how to say some stuff. It's a bit more intuitive than basic phrases, it'll teach you how to make sentences and has an extensive glossary. No Japanese letters though, only romaji, so it won't teach you how to read and write (which imo is the hardest part of the language. Speaking it isn't too bad, but learning all those kanji, oy).

I don't know how scarce Japanese classes are wherever you live, but online sounds nice (I've no idea how good it is, though). If you're still in school or have a bit of money, study abroad in Japan while taking classes there is nice too. If you're an adventurer who can afford to NEET around for some months, backpacking in Japan would be a great way to learn how to speak and understand Japanese, or any language anywhere (though methinks you won't learn how to read and write it very much, we humans don't come pre-programmed with literacy skills).

Originally Posted by cleffa3000

this one u can get the meaning if u know chinese.

but not always the case for some.

I've been thinking about taking a couple of Chinese classes, want to see the language relationships. I love linguistics

[Edijs]

Originally Posted by Komari

Oh, well never mind about the book, it's kinda dumb to have if you're trying to master the whole language. But if you're still curious... http://www.dummies.com/store/product...470178132.html

Seriously though, don't buy it unless you're going to Japan, like, next week and need to know how to say some stuff. It's a bit more intuitive than basic phrases, it'll teach you how to make sentences and has an extensive glossary. No Japanese letters though, only romaji, so it won't teach you how to read and write (which imo is the hardest part of the language. Speaking it isn't too bad, but learning all those kanji, oy).

I don't know how scarce Japanese classes are wherever you live, but online sounds nice (I've no idea how good it is, though). If you're still in school or have a bit of money, study abroad in Japan while taking classes there is nice too. If you're an adventurer who can afford to NEET around for some months, backpacking in Japan would be a great way to learn how to speak and understand Japanese, or any language anywhere (though methinks you won't learn how to read and write it very much, we humans don't come pre-programmed with literacy skills).

I see i will buy new microphone so i will study rosetta stone. Talking about abord yes we have that thing but it costs like OMG for japan is like 9000EUR and for China too 9000EUR

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Edijs

I see i will buy new microphone so i will study rosetta stone. Talking about abord yes we have that thing but it costs like OMG for japan is like 9000EUR and for China too 9000EUR

Backpacking is really cheap, like less than 1000 euros.

[Edijs]

Originally Posted by Komari

Backpacking is really cheap, like less than 1000 euros.

what you mean by that?

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Edijs

I see i will buy new microphone so i will study rosetta stone. Talking about abord yes we have that thing but it costs like OMG for japan is like 9000EUR and for China too 9000EUR

Originally Posted by Edijs

what you mean by that?

Get some clothes and a few euros, fly to Japan. Live like a well dressed hobo for a few months, maybe get a cute little job, live in brothels.

[Alchemist007]

Komari - the master of your fate (as evidenced by the signature).