[MANGA] Bleach - 097 "Let's Stop the Pendulum"

[Konpachi]

^ dude, u can tell by the name, they are Royal Guards, protectors of the King himself, they need to be the best of the best

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

You did not actually read my post. I was providing direct quotes from manga, showing that he can't control verbal commands.

I did read, you just misunderstood my post. My argument was just another response to OD not you. I thought your post was so good that I quoted the one part I felt summed it up perfectly.

Originally Posted by The Small One

That's the point: Why?
It would just be a waste of ressources (=captains), if the King is just sitting in his dimension, since nobody can threaten him there anyways. There has to be more to it.

Consider it like the Secret Service being chosen from the elites of law enforcement even though they normally see much less action than normal officers.

The royal guard is probably considered a failsafe. Even if it's very unlikely, should an enemy force be capable of getting through the Gotei 13 and entering the King's realm, they are going to be extremely powerful and having normal shinigami protecting the king isn't going to do much good.

[cloak_and_dagger]

Will we ever see Hikifune/Isshin fight or will that be in the final chapters?

Also it'd be good if someone can give me a half-reasonable estimate on when Bleach is going to finish so I can know when to buy extra tissues and weep

[Hov]

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

Also it'd be good if someone can give me a half-reasonable estimate on when Bleach is going to finish so I can know when to buy extra tissues and weep

It will never finish!

[cloak_and_dagger]

Originally Posted by Hov

It will never finish!

Thanks! I wanted to hear that

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I wrote it some month ago in another thread:
Technically it doesn't make sense to use only the (most powerful) captains and promote them for royal guards... unless the royal guards are constantly in a war with a power even worse than hollows, which requires to have such powerful fighters.

And if they are indeed busy fighting something else, than Aizen shouldn't really worry.

Agreed with Sabaku Kyu in this, also, if you consider that theory possible (that they're fighting something else) then you really have to put into question whoever was in charge at the time they sealed away the king's dimension.

I mean... you sealed all this away in another dimension... and it turns out it's more dangerous than SS? L a w l.

[Konpachi]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Consider it like the Secret Service being chosen from the elites of law enforcement even though they normally see much less action than normal officers.

The royal guard is probably considered a failsafe. Even if it's very unlikely, should an enemy force be capable of getting through the Gotei 13 and entering the King's realm, they are going to be extremely powerful and having normal shinigami protecting the king isn't going to do much good.

err... ya. And, not nobody can threaten him in his dimension.... If Yama was to go rampant, he knows where the Key is and can get to the king, also... the main plot of recent Bleach iis Aizen bloody wanting to get the Key to go to the king, kill him and take over >__>

[m1thril]

Originally Posted by The Small One

That's the point: Why?
It would just be a waste of ressources (=captains), if the King is just sitting in his dimension, since nobody can threaten him there anyways. There has to be more to it.

i think...i would say the yamamoto or w/e his name is is one of the strongest captains and yet he's not in the royal guard? if they really do need the best of the best, then he shouldn't be in the 13 squads

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by The Small One

It's not that they need the best, but technically some weak Shinigami like Rukia or Hanatarou should be enough as servants. You have to go through Gotei 13 anyways to get to the King, so why not leaving the powerful fighters there?

The Gotei 13 captains have other duties. This is like asking why don't they have Secret Service agents go out and hunt terrorists -- it's because they are meant just to protect the president. It's the Gotei 13's job to protect SS as a whole, including the king( like an army protects a country) but the royal guard is dedicated specifically to the duty of protecting the king.

Plus, because the captains operate on the field, they are sometimes put in situations where they cannot protect. For example, the captains that were turned into hollows because they were sent to investigate a crime scene (though they later regained control and became vizard) were no longer fit to serve SS. And the captains that are trapped in HM are basically powerless to protect the king. Because Gotei 13 captains take these risks, they need a force whose only task is to protect the king's realm.

Besides: Even if there were someone powerful enough to threaten the King: So what?
After all we know the king holds no significance. He doesn't rule SS, nor does he seem to do anything else which is important. After all we know he just exists and does nothing. (Actually we don't even know if he really exists)

It may be true that the royal family doesn't actually rule SS. That's true even in many real world monarchies, though this doesn't actually stop them from having royal guards.

The king may not even be a physical person, but it goes without saying that there is a significant power in the king's realm that the royal guard protects. There's more than just symbolic importance here. Else, why would Aizen even bother trying to seize the throne?

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by The Small One

It's not that they need the best, but technically some weak Shinigami like Rukia or Hanatarou should be enough as servants. You have to go through Gotei 13 anyways to get to the King, so why not leaving the powerful fighters there?

You have to think about some kind of revolution, or enemies on the inside of the SS. Maybe the king entered his own dimension after a failed coup or something.. I don't think he was just lazy and didn't care about his job, there's definitely a reason for him to leaf the business to SS politicians.

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

You have to think about some kind of revolution, or enemies on the inside of the SS.

That's why it's best to have a cadre of guards directly under the King's command, and loyal to him alone. Otherwise, it would be easy to infltrate/bribe/hypnotize. Also consider, while Aizen can scout the best fighters in SS (and probably discover their weaknesses), any of the Royal Guard , at least the older ones, would be almost unknown quantities to him or any other enemy of the King.

Another reason for the concealment could be the same as why Captains/VCs are limited on Earth.........the King and his guards are just that immensely powerful, that they would endanger the balance of universe (and SS specifically). Hence they live in their own realm, observing from afar, choosing not to interfere in the matters of lesser beings.

Heh, it might even be inspired by Pseudo-Arthurian fiction. For example, The Dark Comes Rising by Susan Cooper. When the forces of evil are truly at their ascendancy, when all hopes looks lost, then and only then will the fabled King and his legion of heroes be forced to face the enemy.

[Amirali]

Or it could be possible that the King wants to escape the royal dimension, and hence has been assisting Aizen all along. The King and Royal guard would be a powerful enemy...

[HayashiTakara]

I think its safe to assume that the "king" is actually the God of the bleach world.

[Amirali]

The only question is, will "God" ever show us a bankai? Or be a fighter in any way? It truly feels that Bleach is winding down now. After the Karakura war ends, I'm expecting a short cooling-off period for training and reunions, then straight to the final confrontations. Perhaps in SS, or even the Royal dimension.

However, given Aizen's comments about not needing to intervene............and that it's too early for either the traitor captains or he original captains to be vanquished.........I expect something will break up this fight somehow, to leave us hungry. Not right away, and probably after the espada fights have had a chance to play out.

[kagato3]

Wasn't it said that the Royal guard in charge of destroying Menos class threats to the real world? Remember just because they are cannon fodder now does not mean that they aren't massivly powerful.

[Konpachi]

Originally Posted by m1thril

i think...i would say the yamamoto or w/e his name is is one of the strongest captains and yet he's not in the royal guard? if they really do need the best of the best, then he shouldn't be in the 13 squads

Someone needs to be the Captain-Commander, right?

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by lequory

Hypnosis

1. an artificially induced trance state resembling sleep, characterized by heightened susceptibility to suggestion.
2. hypnotism.


Illusion

1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.
2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension.
3. an instance of being deceived.
[4. Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality.
5. a very thin, delicate tulle of silk or nylon having a cobwebbed appearance, for trimmings, veilings, and the like.
6. Obsolete. the act of deceiving; deception; delusion.


I'm siding with he creates illusions until I'm told by the author something else. I had some things to point out. The whole argument about when and where the Hogyoku was placed in Rukia is screwed. Kubo himself didn't go back and check some things he said himself that messes up when it was placed in her. I don't care who placed it in her. I'm more worried about when it was placed in her. Heres a few things I'm concerned with.

1. 50 years ago Hisana(Byakuya's wife) died and she made him make that promise to find her little sister. Rukia was a little child then at the time even if they do age slowly that makes it impossible for her to be as big as she is now. Basically she's a 15 year old.

2. #1 makes it impossible for Rukia to even be around when these flashbacks took place. If she was around back then she was an embryo and they grow mighty slow.

3. Rukia has said she has lived 10 of Ichigo's lives. 10 * 15 = 150??????

4. Hayashi is right to smell something a little fishy about all this. Once I read his comments I went back and checked myself.

5. How in the hell does Aizen know of the Hogyoku in the first place when Urahara takes it out for the 1st time back at his lab?

6. Aizen said Urahara never once used the Hogyoku?

7. Like everyone else has said....Isshin???? Ryuken??? Where were they at

8. My final comment....I'm going back to believing that when Rukia transferred her powers, she also transfered some Hogyoku juice into Ichigo who in turn through his reiatsu leakage gave his 2 best friends, Chado and Inoue, their powers.


Forgot to add that I do not think that Aizen knows the Vaizards survived. All he's every said was that Urahara was exiled. I think Aizen is in for a big surprise next week. <<<This is my prediction

I posted this before...good thing I save arguments..

You think I don't understand the way Aizen's zanpakutō works. But I understand it better than you think thats why...I am saying it's power is seriously overrated and Aizen may be strong. (Reiatsu) But his being "Untouchable" lies in his intelligence and not necessarily his strength. Now because I wasn't clear enough the first time why I believe this is so (Plus you responded and Aizen's zanpakutō's abilities is a subject I like to discuss) so I will tell you so in depth.

Before I begin we have to first break down the words Complete, Hypnosis and Illusion[
Complete: 1.a: having all necessary parts, elements, or steps
4 a: fully carried out : thorough <a complete renovation> b: total, absolute

Hypnosis: (from the Greek hypnos, "sleep") is "a trance-like state that resembles sleep but is induced by a person whose suggestions are readily accepted by the subject. The technique is used for medical purposes to relieve anxiety or otherwise improve or alter behavior.

Septus states specifically that after subjects have been asked to open their eyes during a deep trance, light shone into the eyes does not cause pupil contraction. The hypnotist may use suggestion to keep the subject in hypnosis,but must avoid suggestions relating to eyes, visual focus, light, or the dilation or contraction of the pupils.

Illusion: An illusion is a distortion of the senses, revealing how the brain normally organizes and interprets sensory stimulation.
The term illusion refers to a specific form of sensory distortion.



Now the word Complete means absolute or total. So when combined with the word Hypnosis. It leads me to believe that Aizen's was not just talking about one ability, but more than one. Besides if he is the big bad MOFO you say it is. There isn't reason to think he only has one. If he does...Then he really sucks...BIG TIME!

Illusion is a part of it, but it isn't the only ability his zanpakutō possesses. I think the term "Complete Hypnosis" refers to his mastery of his zanpakutō and not just one move.

Renji released his sword and used it without calling it's name. Aizen is light years ahead of Renji so I believe he doesn't have the say the name of each attack when it is used. So the attack that deceives the senses is probably just one of them

Also during"The ritual" Aizen used is not only illusion, it was illusion and mass hypnosis. The fact that they didn't see it as a water-element type for an instant, and the suggestion stayed their minds for as long as he wanted it to. Why that's a form of mind control and or hypnosis.

Convincing them an illusion is real and have them base their actions on that belief is also mind control.


Tousen's bankai also distorts the senses, but unlike Aizen's his is not an illusion. It merely deadens the senses of all who are encapsulated in it's domain. Thats why I say Aizen's zanpakutō is really flawed Since it relies on (Especially if Illusion is his only ability) optical illusion. If Tousen was equal or just under Aizen if he could trap in his Bankai then based on the characteristics of both their zanpakutō ability ...Tousen would win hands down. It can be overcome if the person is blind or will is strong enough That's why Aizen's greatness is due to his intelligence rather than strength or Kyoka Suigetsu's abilty

Illusion through hypnosis is hypnosis baka!!!

Aizen tried that same shit with Urahara and it didn't work. Same way it didn't work on Renji and Aizen realized he couldn't be used and had him transfered.

If the VC can beat fraccion then I am going to be really mad. Unless it's a case where Captain and Vice ranks and power level aren't the same thing.

Captain class...what does that really mean?

Renji and Ikkaku are captain class but are VC and a 3 rd seat . It was hard to beat Grimjow's fraccion. By definition even a Fraccion should be at least captain class or higher....
Since It takes those who are of Captain Class to defeat a normal Menos Grande.

So if those former Fraccion were Menos to begin with...No way should a VC have a easy time.

But this is Bleach and one's rank and power level are two different things

That bastard just couldn't keep his shirt on....

[lequory]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how many people agreed with my post but I'm glad OD did and, previously unknown to me, commented on the exact same thing. Aizen has COMPLETE control over your thoughts once you've seen his shikia. I'm not commenting on the power levels. DBZ power levels made more sense than Bleach's does.

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Since It takes those who are of Captain Class to defeat a normal Menos Grande.

At this point in Bleach, I really think even VC level could take out a plain old Menos. Renji and Ikkaku have Bankai, but both are clearly a cut below the captains. That's not me , Kubo has indicated that by having Renji royally owned by Byakuya, and have Ikkaku clearly subordinate to Kenpachi.

Originally Posted by lequory

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how many people agreed with my post but I'm glad OD did and, previously unknown to me, commented on the exact same thing. Aizen has COMPLETE control over your thoughts once you've seen his shikia. I'm not commenting on the power levels. DBZ power levels made more sense than Bleach's does.

Weren't you and OD disagreeing :S? I mean, you said:

Originally Posted by lequory

I'm siding with he creates illusions until I'm told by the author something else.

[lequory]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

At this point in Bleach, I really think even VC level could take out a plain old Menos. Renji and Ikkaku have Bankai, but both are clearly a cut below the captains. That's not me , Kubo has indicated that by having Renji royally owned by Byakuya, and have Ikkaku clearly subordinate to Kenpachi.


Weren't you and OD disagreeing :S? I mean, you said:

Hell I don't know. I was tired as I still am now. I basically said he creates an illusion through hypnosis. Hence the purpose of the definitions. If I didn't type it that way then I was in the wrong way back when I did post that.