Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[bladeofdarkness]

The more I think about this series, the more it feels like this is just an improved rehash of Gundam Seed. If you think about it, all the characters in this series are just differently drawn versions of those characters. We even have a guy with a mask on who swaps sides from the "enemy" side to the protaganist side (ie. Neo). Suzaku is Asthlan, Zero/Lelouch is Kira, Nannaly is Lacus Klein, Kallen its Cagalli, Area 11 is Orb, etc. etc.

that alone
is epic fail
i know you like lelouch and all (your name kinda makes it clear)
but how the hell is he in ANY way like kira ?
kira was (at least during SEED) an insecure but well meaning lawfully good character
lelouch is (during season 1) a self centered egotistical anti-hero well intentionaed extremist
and in R2 he shifts between his season 1 personallity (at first) to chaotic good in the mid part (with the cult massacre being a relapes into his old ways) and finally ends up as a full on villain (albit a complex Necessarily Evil kind) in the final arc
lelouch is infinitly more complex then kira as a character, so that doesnt match up what so ever
ironiclly suzaku is the one who usually gets compared with kira

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by LelouchZeroFTW

You are guilty of what you accuse me of, not me. I voiced my opinion on the series. I don't have to love everything that Sunrise spews out just because you do. I have described quite clearly what I think about this series as a whole, which was mostly negative because of the ghastly and absurd second season.

You admit you didn't even read what I wrote, so you have no right to judge my contribution to this thread. I didn't realise the purpose of this sub forum was just to fanatically praise Sunrise in a five word sentence. lol. It's as if free speech actually hurts you!

Moving on...

The more I think about this series, the more it feels like this is just an improved rehash of Gundam Seed. If you think about it, all the characters in this series are just differently drawn versions of those characters. We even have a guy with a mask on who swaps sides from the "enemy" side to the protaganist side (ie. Neo). Suzaku is Asthlan, Zero/Lelouch is Kira, Nannaly is Lacus Klein, Kallen its Cagalli, Area 11 is Orb, etc. etc.

Gundam Seed was overwhelmingly weak, and this was just a slightly more mature version of that. Pity, as they had such a fun and interesting backstory and plot idea with the whole Geass and Britannia line. So sad, hence: Epic Fail!

As already mentioned Lelouch is basically the exact opposite of Kira.

Suzaku starts off as a naive idealist whose idealism is crushed and is completely broken by the end a shell of his former self forced to wear the mask of Zero for the rest of his life, knowing that he killed his best friend. Athrun while a reunited best friend isn't an idealist until Lacus talks him into joining Orb. By the end of the series his happy, and on the right side.

Nunnaly does have some similarities to Lacus but thats mainly in the Yamato Nadeshiko stereotype department.

Kallen and Cagalli do have some similiarities but thats also because their both stereotypical hotblooded females.

Area 11 and Orb really only have being islands as similarities.

The plots are also completely different

Personally not counting GSD I prefer Gundam Seed which has a weak begenning but gets really good once it stops ripping off MSG and just tells its own plot, since its pretty original by having both sides be evil until introducing the actual heroic side of Orb and the Three Ship alliance at which point members of both the Earth Federation and ZAFT defect.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

As already mentioned Lelouch is basically the exact opposite of Kira.

Suzaku starts off as a naive idealist whose idealism is crushed and is completely broken by the end a shell of his former self forced to wear the mask of Zero for the rest of his life, knowing that he killed his best friend. Athrun while a reunited best friend isn't an idealist until Lacus talks him into joining Orb. By the end of the series his happy, and on the right side.

Nunnaly does have some similarities to Lacus but thats mainly in the Yamato Nadeshiko stereotype department.

Kallen and Cagalli do have some similiarities but thats also because their both stereotypical hotblooded females.

Area 11 and Orb really only have being islands as similarities.

The plots are also completely different

Personally not counting GSD I prefer Gundam Seed which has a weak begenning but gets really good once it stops ripping off MSG and just tells its own plot, since its pretty original by having both sides be evil until introducing the actual heroic side of Orb and the Three Ship alliance at which point members of both the Earth Federation and ZAFT defect.

The only thing i didn't like about the ending of code geass S2 is...:

well first off, i felt the few episodes leading UP to the end, weren't very "code geass" like, but who am i to say. Around episode 19-23 ish? i forgot which ones specifically, everything was getting a bit out of control imo. However, i felt the ending pulled itself back a bit, HOWEVER, i couldn't help but notice the similarities between this and Gundam 00's idea of intervention, the gundam organization stepping in to turn hatred towards them and unite the world through fighting against a common enemy.

It's not gonna work, lelouche's sacrifice imo won't sum up to a lot in the end, and that's my only fear. He's such a great character, way too intelligent to sacrifice his life for a superficial peace that might shatter anytime soon.

And as a result, that's why i seriously hope he didn't really die, like he got the code somehow or something so that when the time does come, and he really is needed, he can step back in. Though it might be a bit cheesy, this ending was a bit too idealistic. The world isn't gonna be in peace for long.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

It's not gonna work, lelouche's sacrifice imo won't sum up to a lot in the end, and that's my only fear. He's such a great character, way too intelligent to sacrifice his life for a superficial peace that might shatter anytime soon.

I don't believe it will work, but in lelouch's mind, Schneizel is supposed to be the brain who will help zero and nunnally to maintain peace. That's why he didn't kill schneizel.

[Levy]

@miroku: I had similar thoughts watching G00 recently : Celestial Being has some striking similarities with the Damocles system - from Nunnaly's perspective - although, one is more interactive and is not actually linked to any earth nation, just stopping the conflicts, while the other is supposed to be an instrument in the hands of the ruler of the world...

the theme of unity against a common enemy is more general and commonly used, but I can see where you are coming from ... - the Sunrise's coffee machine, that's where things came to their final shape.. *dooon*

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Levy

@miroku: I had similar thoughts watching G00 recently : Celestial Being has some striking similarities with the Damocles system - from Nunnaly's perspective - although, one is more interactive and is not actually linked to any earth nation, just stopping the conflicts, while the other is supposed to be an instrument in the hands of the ruler of the world...

the theme of unity against a common enemy is more general and commonly used, but I can see where you are coming from ... - the Sunrise's coffee machine, that's where things came to their final shape.. *dooon*

Well, the CB never wanted to destroy all the big capital cities around the world (it was what Schneizel was planning with the damocles, wasn't it?)

So it's a major difference.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Narona

Well, the CB never wanted to destroy all the big capital cities around the world (it was what Schneizel was planning with the damocles, wasn't it?)

So it's a major difference.

i was thinking more along the lines of lelouche making himself the enemy of the world, an oppressive king. Damocles, like you said, is quite different from CB, but i think lelouche's plans of being brought down after turning all world hatred at himself is similar to CB's plan...no?

and good point about schneizel, but either way, i don't think it'll turn out well, and if they ever have a 3rd season, perhaps that's one of the things they'll end up focusing on? I doubt they'll make a 3rd season anytime soon, but it would be cool for them to be secretly working on the production for a 3rd season and just not telling anyone about it :X.

Only other fear of a 3rd season though...as much as i want one, to what extent will it ruin the magnitude of the ending of S2? Anyone see where i'm going with this? I feel like it might take away from the whole epicness of lelouche killing himself, even if it ends up not being everlasting peace...

p.s. - didn't they say they were originally setting code geass in like a meiji era thing? or some samurai period? I feel like they would've been so limited as to the things they could've done, i dont see why they would do that...

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

i was thinking more along the lines of lelouche making himself the enemy of the world, an oppressive king. Damocles, like you said, is quite different from CB, but i think lelouche's plans of being brought down after turning all world hatred at himself is similar to CB's plan...no?

and good point about schneizel, but either way, i don't think it'll turn out well, and if they ever have a 3rd season, perhaps that's one of the things they'll end up focusing on? I doubt they'll make a 3rd season anytime soon, but it would be cool for them to be secretly working on the production for a 3rd season and just not telling anyone about it :X.

Only other fear of a 3rd season though...as much as i want one, to what extent will it ruin the magnitude of the ending of S2? Anyone see where i'm going with this? I feel like it might take away from the whole epicness of lelouche killing himself, even if it ends up not being everlasting peace...

p.s. - didn't they say they were originally setting code geass in like a meiji era thing? or some samurai period? I feel like they would've been so limited as to the things they could've done, i dont see why they would do that...

The original plan simply didn't include mecha, and would have been the relationship between Lelouch and Suzaku.

What your talking about is a manga spinoff which while I haven't read it sounds awful.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Narona

Well, the CB never wanted to destroy all the big capital cities around the world (it was what Schneizel was planning with the damocles, wasn't it?)

So it's a major difference.

yes, in fact I said Nunnally's idea of the Damocles system... Lelouch's plan is more personalized and based on the annichilation of him as the supreme evil ruler as a cathartic act for the whole planet, while Nunnaly's plan with the Damocles - an oppressive military force of uncomparable technologicall advancement that would crush any rebellion at its start from above, drawing to itself all the hatred in the world and stopping internal conflicts that way, is more similar to CB.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The original plan simply didn't include mecha, and would have been the relationship between Lelouch and Suzaku.

What your talking about is a manga spinoff which while I haven't read it sounds awful.

you mean the samurai/meiji era period thing is a spinoff?

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

you mean the samurai/meiji era period thing is a spinoff?

It's a manga called "Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate " the plot is apparently that Lelouch has control of both the Shishengumi, and secretly the Black Revolutionaries (the Ishin Shishi) as Rei as he tries to remove the influences of Britannia.

Basically it sounds incredibly racist, and just plain dumbs down the actual Bakumatsu which was insanely interesting, and other series have done a wonderful job on it.

It's basically the least known of the various spinoffs and definatly sounds the worst. Knightmare of Nunnaly sounds pretty good, as does Counterattack of Suzaku.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

It's a manga called "Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate " the plot is apparently that Lelouch has control of both the Shishengumi, and secretly the Black Revolutionaries (the Ishin Shishi) as Rei as he tries to remove the influences of Britannia.

Basically it sounds incredibly racist, and just plain dumbs down the actual Bakumatsu which was insanely interesting, and other series have done a wonderful job on it.

It's basically the least known of the various spinoffs and definatly sounds the worst. Knightmare of Nunnaly sounds pretty good, as does Counterattack of Suzaku.

i know this is getting a bit off topic, but who makes these spinoffs? shouldn't they be approved by the original creator himself first? or are these like fanfictions

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

i know this is getting a bit off topic, but who makes these spinoffs? shouldn't they be approved by the original creator himself first? or are these like fanfictions

I am pretty sure that Sunrise gave Kadokawa Shoten the rights to make Code Geass manga, and Kadokawa Shoten ran with it making 4 different ones.

Please note that this is straight out looking on the internet by the Code Geass wikia and wikipedia. I have never read any of the code geass manga so I don't know much about them.

Theres the straight manga adaptation that is Code Geass minus the Knightmare Frames

There's Suzaku of the Counterattack which is Suzaku as a masked superhero with powered armor that's operated by the goverment.

There's Knightmare of Nunnaly which is where Lelouch has gone missing so Nunnaly is given geass by someone named Nemo. Lelouch does have a role though as his geass is the ability to create powered armor apparently he also has a twin brother.

Alternate tales of the Bakumatsu is apparently the only one not liscensed which makes me think that its not very good.

[dragon4dudes]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

There's Knightmare of Nunnaly which is where Lelouch has gone missing so Nunnaly is given geass by someone named Nemo. Lelouch does have a role though as his geass is the ability to create powered armor apparently he also has a twin brother.

Zero still has his original geass power and Nunnaly has the ability to create the powered armor. Nunnaly is the main character and Lelouch has been shunted to the side. She, again, doesn't know that Zero is Lelouch, or at least it is implied. It is basically an alternate universe telling of the original Code Geass series.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by LelouchZeroFTW

You admit you didn't even read what I wrote, so you have no right to judge my contribution to this thread. I didn't realise the purpose of this sub forum was just to fanatically praise Sunrise in a five word sentence. lol. It's as if free speech actually hurts you!

Errr...actually I did read it and all I got was that you were butthurt over Sunrise not giving you exactly the story you wanted and for killing your favourite characters off. Never mind stopping to think about the reasons for why some of the things you brought up might have happened. That and it really is just typical Sunrise bashing and sensationalism through and through, which along with the sheer length is why I cut it all out in my quote, (I mean come on, you title your post "epic fail" and expect to be taken at all seriously?) so I don't quite understand what else you expect me to say for it. None of these factors really do your contribution any favours in terms of giving people much to agree with.

I will say one other thing though, you seem to deal in extremes by suggesting that I think this thread should be 100% fanatical praise of some corporation.

Why someone with Zero's amazing strategic mind didn't put a spy on him or seem to notice his odder-and-slimier- than usual behaviour after the Shirley shooting incident I really don't get. Another plothole.

Also I think it's important to not that you randomly coming up with something you think should have happened but didn't is not a plot hole. Believe it or not the shows narrative is not beholden to your after the fact offerings on what could have happened in order to be consider free of a plot hole. That's not how it works. I understand that nobody actually knows what a real plot hole is anymore and that it has become another one of those catch all power terms for, "I didn't like this, I would have done this instead", and I know people desperately want to think that their ideas and the actual script should be one and the same but come on, can you at least drop the tough guy act if you're going to try and review something and have people take it seriously? The fact that your entire contribution consists pretty much entirely of these sorts of inferences also doesn't do it any favours as far as being something people can lend any sort of credibility.

[Alpha-1]

Calm down people and respect each other's opinions.

Anyways I loved Code Geass R2 to bad Lelouch had to die he sacrificed so much to unite the world, he at least deserves to see a united world.

[bladeofdarkness]

he did
it was united under his rule for a few minutes
and united in its hate of him for a while

and after watching the watchmen movie i have to say

Spoiler for watchmen:

ZERO-R seems even lamer now that i know where they probably stole it from

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he did
it was united under his rule for a few minutes
and united in its hate of him for a while

and after watching the watchmen movie i have to say

Spoiler for watchmen:

ZERO-R seems even lamer now that i know where they probably stole it from

Its actually much closer to Dune's ending, in fact, it pretty much is Dune's ending. All you have to do is switch Lelouch with Muad'Dib, change the setting to space and not AD Earth, replace Refrain and Geass with drugs derived from wurms, and Britannia with House Harkonnen.

The ending is tried and true Dune cliche, the Watchmen also uses it.

[bladeofdarkness]

more like god emperor of dune for ZERO-R

[Nosauz]

Well except Maub'dib was the heir of the atreiedes, and the story was far more complex and interesting. I mean where do the bene gessirit fall into your analogy, the thalaxeu, the freman. I'm telling you these anime studios should go do a Dune adaptation it would pretty amazing, plus they would have enough material from the younger herbert to milk that cow for a near eternity.