[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I'm not sure if Eva would sell pictures of her family but when someone dies in such way his pictures usually end up on newspapers and tv. If by chance Maria's picture had also Sakutaro in it, Witch Hunters have a pic of him.

You're absolutely right. If it's possible in any way to get a picture, there'll be one. I can just see it- the story would pop up all over the place. Even as far away as America a story such as the Rokkenjima Incident would be so enigmatic that it would be a signature episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" and numerous stupid History Channel programs. So it's likely that pictures of Maria would be floating around, and not unlikely that at least one has Sakutarou in it. And if a commonly used picture of Maria on TV happens to a be one where she's holding Sakutarou, or better yet, the only picture, most of the pictures, or every picture of her have him in them, then Sakutarou would instantly become the iconic of companion of the "writer" of Legend and Turn.

Christ. This scenario has now reached plausible status.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

You're absolutely right. If it's possible in any way to get a picture, there'll be one. I can just see it- the story would pop up all over the place. Even as far away as America a story such as the Rokkenjima Incident would be so enigmatic that it would be a signature episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" and numerous stupid History Channel programs. So it's likely that pictures of Maria would be floating around, and not unlikely that at least one has Sakutarou in it. And if a commonly used picture of Maria on TV happens to a be one where she's holding Sakutarou, or better yet, the only picture, most of the pictures, or every picture of her have him in them, then Sakutarou would instantly become the iconic of companion of the "writer" of Legend and Turn.

Christ. This scenario has now reached plausible status.

*nods* And funny enough this becomes a case in which the truth of future overwrites the truth of the past. Sakutaro was an handmade and unique toy in the past... now he has gained the company of the many Rokkenjima incident gadgets...

Beato wasn't aware the truth of 1986 isn't true anymore...

[Renall]

I can see some potential upsides to an army of Sakutarous though.

Spoiler:

Actually, nevermind.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Renall

I can see some potential upsides to an army of Sakutarous though.

Spoiler:

Actually, nevermind.

Well, at least the Purgatory Sisters would be happy.

[AuraTwilight]

I doubt. "Why do you get more?!" "Because I'm oldest!" "Waaaah, every Sakutarou I get is a hand me down!" "I want all the Sakutarous!"

....the sisters are pretty much designed to never be at peace.

[DukeLawliet]

Greetings, fellow Witch Hunters. May I join our merry game?

[AuraTwilight]

Sure, go for it.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Sure, go for it.

Show more enthusiasm! We have a newbie!

Originally Posted by DukeLawliet

Greetings, fellow Witch Hunters. May I join our merry game?

Come on in, my friend! Take a seat here. We're in one our uneventful, yet quite confusing discussions concerning Sakutarou and the mass productions that Ange found.

Here are the theories so far:
Rosa or the company she worked for mass produced Sakutarou. This is not likely because Rosa made Sakutarou specifically for Maria's birthday and Sakutarou is special so Rosa herself can't choose to mass produce him. Which only leaves the company she worked for or...

A Witch Hunter somehow found out about Sakutarou and caused his mass production. The problem with this (and possibly all theories discussed here) is that Ange was able to reproduce something that Beatrice couldn't. Beatrice couldn't do it because Rosa destroyed her own creation, a piece of "magic" that Beatrice has no part in. Furthermore, Ange was able to bring (what we suspect to be a mass- produced) Sakutarou to Maria which (seemingly) violates the red that Sakutarou is special.

So the question became "how could the Witch Hunter popularize Sakutarou?"

Realistically speaking, he can't just ask a person about Maria and what she did with Sakutarou and more specifically what Sakutarou looked like. So the best guess is that he had obtained a picture somehow and it became public due to the Rokkenjima Incident's popularity and Sakutarou became iconic due to that.

I believe this sums up the conversation so far.

[DukeLawliet]

What about this theory?
Rosa is a bad mother
Rosa lied to Maria. Sakutarou never was special. He was always mass produced.

Rosa forgot her daughters birthday, and bought a cheap Sakutarou doll. Maria could see it as her mother loving her, ignoring negative influences. This was a further way of her masking an unhappy truth in a good way. Remember, the introduction of Sakutaro we saw was through Marias diary, which masked incidents like her tearing her room apart as "searching for treasure".

EDIT: The Sakutaro is Special. can be overridden if we assume that hes special dueto his bond with Maria, not that he is UNIQUE. So I propose Sakutaro is special,But he is not unique.

My sister had a stuffed animal as a kid. It got destroyed in the wash, and we got her a replacement, but she never liked it. It wasnt the same. It wasn't the REAL stuffed animal.

[Jan-Poo]

-Sakutaro was "special" simply because it was the Lion Plushy that Maria received for her birthday.
-It is possible that Rosa simply copied an existing brand of plushies. So she made one by herself because it was cheaper that way.
-It is possible that whoever relieved Rosa's company (maybe Eva herself if she didn't sold it) found Rosa's sketches and decided to use them to mass produce the lion plushies.
-It is possible that the entire red truth starting with "Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday" isn't valid because that sentence was interrupted.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by DukeLawliet

Greetings, fellow Witch Hunters. May I join our merry game?

Welcome. I joined this party about a month ago myself.

Originally Posted by DukeLawliet

What about this theory?
Rosa is a bad mother
Rosa lied to Maria. Sakutarou never was special. He was always mass produced.

This is more or less the standard interpretation, I think. The "absolute nature" of Red Truth has been proven questionable in several instances. And while the Witch Hunter hypothesis is plausible, that doesn't make it likely.

[DukeLawliet]

Ah, Im just in a foul mood. Im feeling cynical. Im anti-fantasy AND anti-mystery when cynical. Im normally pro-fantasy.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

-Sakutaro was "special" simply because it was the Lion Plushy that Maria received for her birthday.

-It is possible that the entire red truth starting with "Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday" isn't valid because that sentence was interrupted.

This seems the cleanest way to look at it, to me.

• Beato's interrupted red was used in the same Episode, after the scene with Battler's interrupted red, giving precedence
• Beato's interrupted red was indeed an instance of her choking on the words, like Battler's, and not being interrupted mid-sentence, like Bernkastel's
• The matter of Rosa having made Sakutarou personally is presented as the MAJOR point of contention with his revival
• "And my magic was not able to revive Sakutarou." What Ange did was the same as what Erika did with the candy in EP6, except she wasn't a trolling bitch about it

Small point of interest to me in that scene (aside from an extremely panicked Beato expression I don't think I've ever seen used elsewhere in the story), is that Beatrice said she could pretty much fill her Golden Land with Sakutarous', but MARIA wouldn't have been able to perceive them.

Gonna be honest - when, at that point in the story, I figured out just what Ange had "noticed" in the room with the futons, I thought she saw another, as in ONE MORE Sakutarou. It kind of ... changes things to discover that there was a whole damn jumping pile bag of them. XD

[Wanderer]

magic was not able to revive Sakutarou

Which means... it was SCIENCE!

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Renall

[cronnoponno]

My memory is SERIOUSLY off, what is that medal on Sakutaru's scarf? Has it always been there?

[Jan-Poo]

Yes. I suppose it symbolizes his diplomatic status.
That medal doesn't appear in the real world counterpart.

[cronnoponno]

Isn't the shape of it one of the Japanese characters used to spell Maria?

[Jan-Poo]

It's a cross... it's a pretty common symbol. It's actually the same cross that the Chiesters wears (the iceland flag).
Anyway yes:

亞

[Xenon_gun]

It reminded me more of the German Armed Forces cross from WWII, as seen on the sides of tanks and airplane fuselages.

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balkenkreuz.svg

[cronnoponno]

So, it spells Maria's name, is put on furniture that seems to take the appearance of Maria's imagination, while personifying guns, and it's similar to the german symbol in WWII...

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Maria has a gun.

But seriously, could there be a reason it could mean anything other than symbolizing his diplomatic immunity?(btw what the hell was that about anyway?)