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Old 2006-08-11, 09:09   Link #101
Obi-Wan
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This is a thread about how I would improve GSD. If that invovles having a double standard then who gives a fuck. I'm pissed that all these pro-Shinn people are coming in here and telling me I can't have something my way in a thread that's been created to say how I would improve GSD. If they don't want Kira to own those two candy asses in a GOUF then they can make their own rewrite where Kira tries to escape in GOUF and he gets owned. For now this is my story and I'd appreciate it if you clowns ease up off my nuts. You're being very rude.
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Old 2006-08-11, 11:47   Link #102
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Do I need to point out that Athrun was winning in the GOUF until Shinn snapped? Kira at least would've had the balls to go SEED himself and after getting beaten by Shinn just a few episodes earlier, he wouldn't pull his punches like the first time. Would've been a completely different ballgame.

You Shinn homers go back to your precious Shinn Character thread and talk about how awesome and creative his one stab bam bam move is. I stopped posting in that one for a reason. Last thing I need is for Shinn fanboys to come in here and tell me how something can't happen in a thread entitled "How would you improve GSD..."

And let me point out Athrun sucked at pilot anything that wasn't a green ZAKU or Justice. Pointing out how easy Athrun got pistolwhipped isn't really a fair comparison to how bad Kira would pwn Shinn in that GOUF. (I mean Heine kicked Gaia's ass in the GOUF, can't say a GOUF can't beat a Gundam unless you're a total idiot)

Excuse me, but this made me laugh. Kira would pwn Shinn in a gouf ? You, my friend, are being the biggest fanboy in this thread. Heine kicked GAIAs ass ? wel boo-hoo, Athrun did a better job in a ZAKU. Desitiny is so much stronger than GAIA its not even funny.

Athrun put up a good fight, still lost. ( tho he could have done much better if he would want to, but for some reason hes obsessed with persuading Shinn till the very last moment in Messiah battle) He could have done better. Would he win ?> NO. Same with Kira. That is pure fanboyism talking if you think Kira would win that match.

What does a GOUF actually has that can damage Destiny ? Heat rod doesnt work on PS as we have seen with SF, unless that was Lacus dust protecting it. That beam-machine gun doesnt do jack as we have seen in Athrun vs Destiny. ASS cuts trough GOUFs shield like a knife trough butter. Destiny is about gazzilion times faster than GOUF. Now tell me, how does one beat Destiny with a GOUF without Destiny's pilot being a grunt / in coma ?
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Old 2006-08-11, 12:34   Link #103
Tak
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Originally Posted by Skyfall
Excuse me, but this made me laugh. Kira would pwn Shinn in a gouf ? You, my friend, are being the biggest fanboy in this thread. Heine kicked GAIAs ass ? wel boo-hoo, Athrun did a better job in a ZAKU. Desitiny is so much stronger than GAIA its not even funny.

Athrun put up a good fight, still lost. ( tho he could have done much better if he would want to, but for some reason hes obsessed with persuading Shinn till the very last moment in Messiah battle) He could have done better. Would he win ?> NO. Same with Kira. That is pure fanboyism talking if you think Kira would win that match.

What does a GOUF actually has that can damage Destiny ? Heat rod doesnt work on PS as we have seen with SF, unless that was Lacus dust protecting it. That beam-machine gun doesnt do jack as we have seen in Athrun vs Destiny. ASS cuts trough GOUFs shield like a knife trough butter. Destiny is about gazzilion times faster than GOUF. Now tell me, how does one beat Destiny with a GOUF without Destiny's pilot being a grunt / in coma ?
Gotta agree with Skyfall here. Whatever lack of Shinn's skills if compared to Athrun, he compensated that with the DESTINY.

Stellar's Gaia on the other hand, had no benefit from her slightely above average piloting skills. Look, the three Extended had trouble fighting Yzak's Zaku for crying out loud.

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Old 2006-08-11, 12:35   Link #104
Obi-Wan
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Hi, thanks for ignoring the part where this is my rewrite. I'm in the director's chair and if I want Kira to win with a GOUF then that's my fucking prerogative. So what if I'm being fanboy? You think you're being any less fanboy when you say the most overrated pilot in CE can beat the pilot that even the creators say is the best? I'm not even going to point out the irony in this because all Shinn fans see in black and white. If Kira can pull his punches and somehow get his Freedom blown apart by Impulse, I can sure as hell make my own plot hole where Shinn slips at the controls and a GOUF takes off both his arms in a split second.

If you want a version of GSD where Kira tries to fight Destiny in a GOUF and loses, then shut the fuck up and make your own version. You homers have derailed this thread for the last two pages just because of something I want in my own fantasy version of GSD as per the topic's instructions. Good fucking grief.
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Old 2006-08-11, 12:49   Link #105
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Come on people this is a thread on how we as fans would improve or want GSD to play out. No matter how unlikely and seemingly impossible it is for Kira to beat Destiny in a Gouf if that is what Obi-Wan wants then he can say it reguardless if it is being a fanboy or not. This is not a topic for discussing what would happen it's what you would change or want to happen. I'm sure we all have things we would want to occur in the show that seems impossible but here you can say it because it's what you want reguardless if it's likely or able to be done. It's supposed to be fun saying what you want let's not pick apart people's versions everyone can make there own and have whatever they want happen in it.

Last edited by Silent Soldier; 2006-08-11 at 14:27.
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Old 2006-08-11, 14:20   Link #106
Last_Hope
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I´m agreeing with Obi-Wan here. What are you people doing in this thread anyway? As stated, this thread is about how we would improve it. And what we feel is an improvement.

If you don´t have anything to add but complaints that Obi-Wan´s scenario isn´t realistic according to CE-standards. Then you don´t have anything to do in this thread.


Personally I would have liked for Auel to survive a little longer. He could have switched places with Stella. And then Shinn´s hatred towards Kira could have been because he blamed Freedom for the death of his family instead of Stella.


( I would also have spared Meer´s life so that we didn´t have to suffer through her recap episode...)
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Old 2006-08-11, 14:44   Link #107
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Not sure if its already mentioned, but it wouldn't hurt if we get to see more of IJ's weapons in use.

Then maybe a little of those teamwork moves between SF and IJ like how Freedom and Justice did in GS. They displayed pretty good teamwork.
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Old 2006-08-11, 16:23   Link #108
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Not sure if its already mentioned, but it wouldn't hurt if we get to see more of IJ's weapons in use.

Then maybe a little of those teamwork moves between SF and IJ like how Freedom and Justice did in GS. They displayed pretty good teamwork.
For that, we need less talking and more cooperation. But obviously it can't happen as long as Athrun and Rey have their own personal agendas in battle.
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Old 2006-08-12, 04:35   Link #109
rtwesen
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1: better presented and more thought out reason for TSA to mobilize.

2: more screen time to shinn

3: characters die when they logically should

4: actually showing a thorough thinking process that Lacus should've went through when she discovered dullindal's notepad. Maybe a bit of HUMILITY from her acknowlegding the possibility of being wrong (regarding whether or not to interrupt a fight etc)

5: consistency regarding shinn's skill, and also maybe use Shinn to explain what it actually is.

this is just off the top of my head
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Old 2006-08-14, 00:01   Link #110
aeriolewinters
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Okay... About the Kira on GOUF vs. Shinn in Destiny...

though I say that Shinn would get this one, I think people actually forgot what Kira's skill is all about. While some can contend that he seems to have overdepended upon the technical advantage of his latter suits, Kira is still Kira from SEED, skillwise. Chances are, if you give him Impulse against Shinn's Destiny, I think he would win. Aside from the arguement that it's basically Strike 2.0, he can give Shinn some of his own medicine he gave Kira during ep. 34 or even more...

Which leads me to my own request.... Kira on Strike(instead of Freedom) basic equip/Aile Vs. Ash Unit....


Another thing that I could do to make it Kira's Skill More Justifiable is to animate new scenes for all MS, give Kira's first Person View during the infamous "SPAM" Attack. Instead of acquiring targets and just letting it rip... Show the obvious relationship of SEED to that Attack...(for Example, he could see things in slow motion and lock those MS). This can be applicable not only on Kira but on other Pilots as well...
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Old 2006-08-15, 18:52   Link #111
MesdoramElmdor
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Lightbulb How to improve: radically change focus to Athrun?

I've been thinking about this problem for a while. I've just about given up on the Kira VS Shinn rivalry, I think it will never be interesting on its own terms... partly because of Kira's "Jesus" character shield and partly because Fukuda and Morosawa always refuse to treat Kira's past seriously. For whatever reason, they never followed up on the idea that Kira could really be directly responsible for Shinn's family's death, and thus nerfed the biggest reason Shinn might have for hating him... Their decision to avoid undercutting their most popular character probably made sense from a marketing standpoint, but it places all the drama on a conflict between two dead characters...

During all this Athrun is languishing in the Reject Room... Think about all the times Athrun stands around looking at the ocean rather than trying to hone the skills of his subordinates or participating in battles! I realize that Athrun is supposed to be having doubts about politics, about the actions of ZAFT, or his MS is broken, etc, etc, but these doubts only cripple him more as a character. Athrun's internal conflict was vague and sometimes almost objectless on the show... but if we fix it, we can keep the plot while totally changing the story's tone and direction!

So my solution to both of these problems is: keep the general events of the story (the battles, the factions, the fights) the same, but beef up Athrun's role in the episodes so that the central question is not "Who will win, Kira or Shinn" but something like "Which side will Athrun go with, Kira or Shinn?" "On which side will Athrun choose to love someone; Cagalli or Meyrin/Luna?" "Which does Athrun value more, his responsibility to be a mentor to Shinn and help him deal with his dark side, or his promises to his friends?" This would make the feel of the series totally different but I really think more introspection would be perfectly appropriate in GSD order to balance the absurdly overpowered machines. It would also take the focus OFF of the series's embarassing politics (An anticapitalist revolution happening that easily? Give me a break!!! And the Destiny plan, hoo boy...) As for what this would do to the end of the series, I think a more articulate Athrun could do a good deal to question and complicate the morality of what Lachs and Kira are doing at the end... again, I am restricted by plot, but hey, I want a morally ambiguous ending!

And yeah, I realize the specials try to focus on Athrun, but from my understanding they don't do anything this radical...

So I think there are 4 ways we can refocus the series on Athrun, while keeping the story intact.

1. Use Athrun to filter Fukuda's addiction to clipshows.
Spoiler:


2. Beef up Athrun's personal and love subplots early in the series (this also makes later events more believable).
Spoiler:


3. Athrun takes a much more active role during episodes 31-38!
Spoiler:


4. When he gets rescued, Athrun asks tough questions about the Archangel's agenda and undercuts the one-sided moral tone of the show.
Spoiler:


I realize Athrun may not be everyone's favorite character, but it seems to me he's perfectly placed to shoulder a lot of the improvements this series needs...
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Old 2006-08-15, 21:20   Link #112
grandmaster192
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No IJ or Strike Freedom would improve Destiny alot.
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Old 2006-08-15, 22:34   Link #113
Obi-Wan
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No Shinn would improve GSD a lot.
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Old 2006-08-16, 00:41   Link #114
megakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MesdoramElmdor
As the series progresses, Athrun has some tense conflicts with Kira and Lachs. Wingdarkness made a great point in another thread about how Djibril is certainly a bigger danger to earth than the Destiny Plan right now. Athrun suggests that the Archangel should defeat Djibril first, in order to "Scoop" ZAFT and gain PR... it would also be cool to time this with Lachs's comeback. Of course, this suggestion is not taken, but at LEAST we question the Archangel's moral postion!
Spoiler for my add-on:
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Old 2006-08-16, 01:16   Link #115
Obi-Wan
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(sue me)
Not that people aren't above mispelling character names here, but "Lachs"? Big wtf there.
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Old 2006-08-16, 06:20   Link #116
grandmaster192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
No Shinn would improve GSD a lot.
Shinn was the best part of GSD. As soon as the Strike Freedom and IJ came the show was wrecked. If we are gonna take out characters then kill Athrun. Now that really would have made GSD better.
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Old 2006-08-16, 06:44   Link #117
Last_Hope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaster192
Shinn was the best part of GSD. As soon as the Strike Freedom and IJ came the show was wrecked. If we are gonna take out characters then kill Athrun. Now that really would have made GSD better.
Depends on who you ask. Personally I would definitely prefer to have Shinn erased from Destiny.

But I can´t say I´m pleased with how Kira, Athrun and Cagalli (Lacus is still Lacus) was handled in Destiny. Atleast for Kira and Athrun a lot of potential was wasted. Atleast in the show. The SE isn´t finished yet.


One that should be erased in her current form is Stella.
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Old 2006-08-16, 09:34   Link #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaster192
Shinn was the best part of GSD. As soon as the Strike Freedom and IJ came the show was wrecked. If we are gonna take out characters then kill Athrun. Now that really would have made GSD better.
It depends on how you look at it but what have you got against Athrun he wasn't that bad in destiny. How would killing him have made GSD better Shinn was good in the beginning but you can't say that you were pleased with how his character turned out in the end. They completely gave up on character development and reduced him to a mindless attack dog following Dully and Rey without question. you can't tell me you felt that this was a satisfying end for his character if anything they should have either fixed the problems with him (Which probably would have been impossible considering how they butchered his character) or they should have had him die in the end that might have made a little more sense.
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Old 2006-08-16, 09:59   Link #119
grandmaster192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Soldier
It depends on how you look at it but what have you got against Athrun he wasn't that bad in destiny. How would killing him have made GSD better Shinn was good in the beginning but you can't say that you were pleased with how his character turned out in the end. They completely gave up on character development and reduced him to a mindless attack dog following Dully and Rey without question. you can't tell me you felt that this was a satisfying end for his character if anything they should have either fixed the problems with him (Which probably would have been impossible considering how they butchered his character) or they should have had him die in the end that might have made a little more sense.
When Athrun is with ZAFT I have nothing against him. When he has the IJ I hate him. If Athrun died there would be no stupid IJ. I don't see the piont in having a invincible gundam like the IJ. The Same with Kira and his Strike Freedom. I was starting to like Athrun at the begining. He was cool and had a badass gundam. For me Shinn's character was fine at the end. I would rather have him like that then to be with Team Kira. I would have rather had Athrun die in place of Hien.
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Old 2006-08-16, 10:11   Link #120
Silent Soldier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaster192
When Athrun is with ZAFT I have nothing against him. When he has the IJ I hate him. If Athrun died there would be no stupid IJ. I don't see the piont in having a invincible gundam like the IJ. The Same with Kira and his Strike Freedom. I was starting to like Athrun at the begining. He was cool and had a badass gundam. For me Shinn's character was fine at the end. I would rather have him like that then to be with Team Kira. I would have rather had Athrun die in place of Hien.
Alright well I can't argue that I would have liked Saviour to last a lot longer than it did. I liked it more than IJ because it was less invincible but we all know Fukuda was going to bring the Justice back so that is not Athrun's fault. And CE is all about invincible gundams my friend. Killing off Athrun would have ruined Destiny well for me at least. Heine was really a very minor and not important character Athrun is a main character having him die in place of Heine would not have worked. Well if you liked Shinn's character at the end of Destiny that is your opinion and I respect that but you have got to admit he was way better in the beginning. They let his character go down hill and degrade to what I said before. Shinn on team Kira I am against that too that just would not seem right. I wish that had resolved Shinn's problems like made him get over his sister's and family's death maybe made him grow and become a stronger and wiser person because of it. There was so much more that they could have done I would have always liked to see Athrun while in ZAFT on minerva take up more of a mentouring role to Shinn, but sadly they wasted Shinn's character potential.
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