US Elections 2008

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

I'm sure Bush's strike on Iraq did impact Osama's schedule, or delayed it at the very least.

No, but the strike on Afganistan did. Al Qaeda and the Taliban were almost crushed. Unfortunately, rather than follow up the success, Bushy decided to divert resources to invading Iraq. As a result both escaped to neighboring Pakistan and slowly rebuilt. Now it's possible sending more troops wouldn't have prevented this. However, the fact remains the people who actually stuck us on 9-11 were considered less important than some country that had nothing to do with it, but had a leader Bushy didn't like.

[Slice of Life]

About Afghanistan and Iraq: After 9/11 I considered the war against Afghanistan justified and I supported it. But I have to admit that I, as so many, didn't see the bigger picture back then although the sign were clearly there (As early as Bush's famous "Either you're with us, or with the terrorists."). I had imagined catching the Al Qaida and Taliban higher ranks, building a few bridges and schools, trying to give the moderate forces a head start and then saying good bye. That the real target, strategy, and goals were completely different I understood only when the Iraq war became more and more likely. In retrospect, it maybe would have been better to oppose the whole thing from the beginning. Taking position can mean making mistakes, sometimes grave ones.

Now about Ron Paul: I wouldn't even know that name if it wasn't through the internet subculture. It would go too far to say he has been "invented" there, I assume, but he certainly found a sounding board that blew him completely out of proportion. I didn't know that he's "adored" at 4chan, but that is where the internet is at its most internet, so it makes completely sense. I never expected him to get more in RL than the about 10 percent he got. I said earlier that I expect a swingback into isolationism, but a US president will never, ever withdraw from UN or WTO, not even for the opposite reasons. An agenda like that makes we wonder if that guy does even understand the fundamentals of international relations.

[ToxicNarcotic]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Now about Ron Paul: I wouldn't even know that name if it wasn't through the internet subculture. It would go too far to say he has been "invented" there, I assume, but he certainly found a sounding board that blew him completely out of proportion. I didn't know that he's "adored" at 4chan, but that is where the internet is at its most internet, so it makes completely sense. I never expected him to get more in RL than the about 10 percent he got. I said earlier that I expect a swingback into isolationism, but a US president will never, ever withdraw from UN or WTO, not even for the opposite reasons. An agenda like that makes we wonder if that guy does even understand the fundamentals of international relations.

The WTO is an institution that caters to the rich corporate feudal lords and tramples on the rest of us. Do a google search there are better alternatives than the garbage that is the WTO.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

I also find it funny that people prioritize "experience" over policy. Strange...

It's easy to spout policy. Quite another thing to implement policy. That's why I would personally prefer a political leader with experience, if all other factors were equal.

After all, politics is ultimately a dirty business. Publicly, you need to keep up appearances to maintain popular support, because without support, you are nothing. Privately, you're constantly forced to accept compromises in order to get things done. Personally, I find politics a thankless task. My respect goes to those who pursue politics out of a sense of civic duty.

But hey, it's not my country's Presidential election, so please don't mind me. I'm just here to enjoy the show.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by ToxicNarcotic

The WTO is an institution that caters to the rich corporate feudal lords and tramples on the rest of us. Do a google search there are better alternatives than the garbage that is the WTO.

The WTO is first of all a commitee where the people we voted into office negotiate about the rules of trade. And the United States have probably the biggest influence on making these rules, or maybe second to the European Union. If you think that your representatives are controlled by "rich corporate feudal lords", well leaving the WTO won't change that. And when you stop talking and leave the room, you have basically two choices. You adapt the rules the rest of the world decided upon without asking you. Or you try to make your own. Which means you have to offer them better terms than the standard. Which means it will cost you.

In general, the rich corporate feudal lord benefits more from bargaining on a case-by-case basis than the poor commoner, BTW.

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It's easy to spout policy. Quite another thing to implement policy. That's why I would personally prefer a political leader with experience, if all other factors were equal.

All other things being equal is key.

If faced with the choice between some one who I agree with completely that doesn't have the ability to do the job properly or some one I agree with slightly less but that will likely do a good job... I'll likely choose the second party. (One of the reasons I'd hesitate on Ron Paul even if I didn't have some key disagreements. Even though he does have a fair amount of experience, his statements lead me to believe he'd just tick off congress to the point of a deadlock.)

However, when given a choice between an inexperienced candidate I agree with and an experienced candidate who I know will actively work in exactly the opposite direction I believe to be right, I'll take the former.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

After all, politics is ultimately a dirty business. Publicly, you need to keep up appearances to maintain popular support, because without support, you are nothing. Privately, you're constantly forced to accept compromises in order to get things done. Personally, I find politics a thankless task. My respect goes to those who pursue politics out of a sense of civic duty.

I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly, most who pursue politics don't do it for those reasons, there exist those who do, and I appreciate them.

[Autumn Demon]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

regardless of whether we intervene or not, the possibility of america being pulled into a war still exists. america took a non-intervention policy before world war II and look what happened. however, meddling in affairs that do not directly involve us should be kept to a minimum, as it does increase the likelyhood sp? of problems. But then, who's going to complain about gas prices being $3.50 this summer? of course you are.

I would think that most hardcore anime fans don't drive or don't like the idea of driving because cars aren't so widely used in Japan. True anime fans aren't directly affected by the price of petroleum, and can be a little more apathetic when presidential candidates mention the price of gas.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Autumn Demon

I would think that most hardcore anime fans don't drive or don't like the idea of driving because cars aren't so widely used in Japan. True anime fans aren't directly affected by the price of petroleum, and can be a little more apathetic when presidential candidates mention the price of gas.

What does being an anime fan have to do with driving? I'm what most would consider a hardcore anime fan, and I love to drive. Or at least I would if not for those idiots on the road doing 35 in the left lane on a road with a 55 mph speed limit. Actually the 55 mph speed limit kind of sucks too, when it's on a newly paved road, that's perfectly straight, in an area with few buildings of any kind, at a time of day with low traffic volume.

Anyway, my point is I'm an anime fan and I care about gas prices and the price of energy in general. The rising prices are a huge drain on the budget of the average person, and one of the major factors contributing to the latest economic downturn.

[ToxicNarcotic]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

The WTO is first of all a commitee where the people we voted into office negotiate about the rules of trade. And the United States have probably the biggest influence on making these rules, or maybe second to the European Union. If you think that your representatives are controlled by "rich corporate feudal lords", well leaving the WTO won't change that.

And continued support of an organization that has been a major contributor in our buying incredibly more than we sell that has put us into a financial predicament resembling that of Asia, Russia, and Brazil prior to their financial collapses in '97 and '98 benefits us how?
In my opinion the WTO is inherently flawed, and is beyond repair. As I've said before, there are alternatives to the WTO,

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

And when you stop talking and leave the room, you have basically two choices. You adapt the rules the rest of the world decided upon without asking you. Or you try to make your own.

The US is an integral part of the WTO as you mentioned. Being that this is the age of a 'global economy' and our economies are interdependent upon one another and the US being a key player in that economy, the WTO would not be able to sustain itself without the US.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Which means you have to offer them better terms than the standard. Which means it will cost you.

The current standards strip countries of their national sovereignity, disregard environmental laws, and disregard both human and workers' rights. Most nations are forced into adhering to terms through economic force rather than because it's beneficial to them. If hypothetically speaking (getting to this point is a whole different matter completely), the US pulled away from the WTO and a fairer global trade model was put into place that was actually democratic and didn't trample developing nations, the terms would naturally be more enticing to many countries as opposed to the more authoritarian WTO.

[Autumn Demon]

So Mitt Romney won Michigan by a decent margin. That surprised me a bit, but when I think about it McCain really is too truthful about the economy to please the struggling people of Michigan. Romney's father being a former governor of the state probably helped a lot too.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Ah... that reminds me..... I forgot to vote in the primaries this year. Ah, well.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Hmm... so today is the Super Tuesday, any guess on who will be the nominees for each party? Lot of people are saying McCain for Republican and well it seems that between Obama and Clinton is very close.

[Synria_]

The fact that someone believes a Democrat will pull America out of this war (or any for that matter) is a piss opinion.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I'd pick Obama over Clinton any day. I just can't stand that awful woman. >_>

And I'm very conservative, too. Despite this, I would probably vote for Obama because out of all the Democrats I've seen, the man is actually speaking sense, even if his political views don't *exactly* match up to mine. I mean that in a complimentary way.

[dahl_moon]

Wow, things are really close down here in Georgia. Huckabee vs McCain are neck to neck. It'll be an interesting night (hopes to my vote actually making a difference)

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by dahl_moon

Wow, things are really close down here in Georgia. Huckabee vs McCain are neck to neck. It'll be an interesting night (hopes to my vote actually making a difference)

For the Demo, Obama won Georgia and that is good to hear, and also he got his home state, got a big lead in Alabama and leading in some of Clinton territory. I think that he will pull out a win in California, I hope but I dont want to see another Clinton in office, I really dont.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

It appears that Obama is starting to get an edge over the majority of the states. However not everythings official yet. I really hope Clinton gets tramped.

As for the republican side I'm pulling for Huckabee.

[ApostleOfGod]

Yay Youtube Super Tuesday!!

And thanks for bumping me post up , especially now that things are heating up.

[Daughter!]

I voted Obama today. Anything but Hillary or Romney honestly, but I'd really like to see Obama win the election.

[ChibiMenos]

I would have voted McCain (not that it would make much difference in this state, lol) but apparently to vote in the Republican primary one must be registered as a Republican...and I consider myself an independant, thanksverymuch. I could have voted in the Democratic primary, I suppose--I think they're open to anyone?--but since I don't care much for any of the options, there wasn't much point. I don't like Hillary, and then I don't feel like I know enough about Obama...