Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[bloodyclaws]

gram demolition is the disintegration of a spell through sheer psion output. Reason for the lack of practicality is due to both speed and the immensity of psion needed.

I believe gram dispersion is the one that would need eye of the spirits. It is the "decoding" and dispersing the psion used in the "body" of magic, which is the magic construct. This is considered impossible in actual combat because the user is required to read, understand, and break the construct all in a matter of 0.x seconds. (modern magic is cast in 0.x seconds present day).

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by bloodyclaws

gram demolition is the disintegration of a spell through sheer psion output. Reason for the lack of practicality is due to both speed and the immensity of psion needed.

I believe gram dispersion is the one that would need eye of the spirits. It is the "decoding" and dispersing the psion used in the "body" of magic, which is the magic construct. This is considered impossible in actual combat because the user is required to read, understand, and break the construct all in a matter of 0.x seconds. (modern magic is cast in 0.x seconds present day).

No it's just tatsuya aiming decomposition towards the MS.

[bloodyclaws]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

No it's just tatsuya aiming decomposition towards the MS.

No. The mistake is Gram dispersion and Gram demolition are not, in any way, part of tats birth magic (decomposition). Very separate things. They are two of the strongest non systematic counter magics.

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by bloodyclaws

No. The mistake is Gram dispersion and Gram demolition are not, in any way, part of tats birth magic (decomposition). Very separate things. They are two of the strongest non systematic counter magics.

Gram Demolition is not but Gram Dispersion is born from decomposition. Gram Dispersion Is when Tatsuya Disintegrates AS and MS into psions, while Gram Demolition is a psion cannon ball the forcibly blows away AS.

[bloodyclaws]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

Gram Demolition is not but Gram Dispersion is born from decomposition.

As I said, Gram dispersion along with Gram demolition was stated to be two of the strongest counter magics within Nonsystematic Magics

Spoiler:

Along with Gram Dispersion, Gram Demolition is known as one of the strongest Counter Magics within Nonsystematic Magic... But there are very few people capable of performing this feat.

This is what nonsystematic-type magic refers to.

Spoiler:

"Speed, Weight change", "Movement, vibration", "Converge, dissipate", and "Absorb, release" are known as the 4 system/8 type magic. Granted, there are some exemptions to this category. Magic that is not a part of the 4 system/8 type magic is broken down into 3 categories. One is perception-type magic known as "ESP" (Extra Sensory Perception, not Extra Special Power). Another is a magic that does not aim to alter phenomena by temporarily rewriting the body of information associated with phenomena, "Eidos", but aims to control the Psion itself; this is known as nonsystematic-type magic

magic that does not alter phenomena, but the manipulation of Psions He does not decompose, he disperses the psions that make up the body of magic

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by bloodyclaws

As I said, Gram dispersion along with Gram demolition was stated to be two of the strongest counter magics within Nonsystematic Magics

Spoiler:

Along with Gram Dispersion, Gram Demolition is known as one of the strongest Counter Magics within Nonsystematic Magic... But there are very few people capable of performing this feat.

This is what nonsystematic-type magic refers to.

Spoiler:

"Speed, Weight change", "Movement, vibration", "Converge, dissipate", and "Absorb, release" are known as the 4 system/8 type magic. Granted, there are some exemptions to this category. Magic that is not a part of the 4 system/8 type magic is broken down into 3 categories. One is perception-type magic known as "ESP" (Extra Sensory Perception, not Extra Special Power). Another is a magic that does not aim to alter phenomena by temporarily rewriting the body of information associated with phenomena, "Eidos", but aims to control the Psion itself; this is known as nonsystematic-type magic

magic that does not alter phenomena, but the manipulation of Psions He does not decompose, he disperses the psions that make up the body of magic

sight everything you said is true but MS and AC are information bodies not in a physical sense but more along the lines of signals (waves maybe), decomposition despite it's name does not require a target in the solid state but anything that can be broken into it most basic component. That include AS and MS which are made up of different things (psions plus something else) and since in this variation the target is the AS or MS which is made up psions to altered it as a decomposing it. It really is a non-systemic magic, If your not convince (probably not huh) let's say your right what do i know anyway. Since for me this is merely inferred after reading the story and other sources it's a guess at best.

[bloodyclaws]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

sight everything you said is true but MS and AC are information bodies not in a physical sense but more along the lines of signals (waves maybe), decomposition despite it's name does not require a target in the solid state but anything that can be broken into it most basic component. That include AS and MS which are made up of different things (psions plus something else) and since in this variation the target is the AS or MS which is made up psions to altered it as a decomposing it. It really is a non-systemic magic, If your not convince (probably not huh) let's say your right what do i know anyway.

Its fine. All I did was take evidence from the source to backup an already established claim. Psions, MS, AC are no physical objects, might as well be concepts. MS and AC are created through psions. Thats why gram dispersion is not decomposition as it is the dispersion of psions to strip away the MS. Decomposition does not require a target in the solid state, nor does any counter magic from the non systematic type.

But I've exhausted everything I've got to say. Whether what I've stated is sufficient enough to change your viewpoint will be on your end.

[blackwhite67]

Since Tatsuya can use his Decomposition on anything with an information body in the Eidos, it is possible for him to decompose physical phenomenon like temperature, gravity, and movement, right?

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Since Tatsuya can use his Decomposition on anything with an information body in the Eidos, it is possible for him to decompose physical phenomenon like temperature, gravity, and movement, right?

no since what would you decompose in gavity or temperature into what components, they are forces not structures which thought given different names is still just energy.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

no since what would you decompose in gravity or temperature into what components, they are forces not structures which thought given different names is still just energy.

But didn't his thesis on gravity-controlled thermonuclear fusion use magic that decreased coulombic force? If something like force could be a target for magic, then couldn't it also be decomposed?

Also, Miyuki's Inferno is a magic which reverses the heat energy within a set area.

Can't Tatsuya's Decomposition also completely erase something without breaking it down into components?

[pampz21]

Well think of Tatsuya decomposition as Touma's imagine breaker....he cant alter the law of physics but can erase information, gravity in sort of way is something that just exist....not a phenomenon

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Well think of Tatsuya decomposition as Touma's imagine breaker....he cant alter the law of physics but can erase information, gravity in sort of way is something that just exist....not a phenomenon

Gravity is a scientific phenomenon. I have no idea what you're trying to say. Also, referring to my previous points, since energy can clearly be targeted by magic as shown with Inferno, it must have an information body in the eidos and if it is present in the eidos then it could be a target for Decomposition.

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

But didn't his thesis on gravity-controlled thermonuclear fusion use magic that decreased coulombic force? If something like force could be a target for magic, then couldn't it also be decomposed?

Also, Miyuki's Inferno is a magic which reverses the heat energy within a set area.

Can't Tatsuya's Decomposition also completely erase something without breaking it down into components?

Well yes and no since what they did to reduce coulombic force was non-conservative (it does not adhere to the law of conservation of energy e.i :magic) energy that altered the force of the law. in terms easy to understand think like the newton's third law the opposing force of transferring kinetic energy into a surface when you jump results altering the gravity (in terms of effect place on the subject yourself) because you met it with more power but the action here would be something you can do with normal magic since you altered the force acting on the subject. But that's really quite interesting if could decompose a concept that really would amazing.

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Since Tatsuya can use his Decomposition on anything with an information body in the Eidos, it is possible for him to decompose physical phenomenon like temperature, gravity, and movement, right?

Out curiosity what would you like to happen if he could do this he might not be able with decomposition only. But that is hardly the only weapon in his arsenal.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

and you did not require high psion count or great technical skills.

You're right about the technical skills, but a high psion count is a requirement. The cannonball is made of a massive amount of psions concentrated into a high-density blast. The reason it is so rare is because most Magicians don't have that level of psions (since high psion level isn't considered necessary anymore).

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by XFire

You're right about the technical skills, but a high psion count is a requirement. The cannonball is made of a massive amount of psions concentrated into a high-density blast. The reason it is so rare is because most Magicians don't have that level of psions (since high psion level isn't considered necessary anymore).

This wasn't For Gram demolition but mock cast jamming.

[bloodyclaws]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Well think of Tatsuya decomposition as Touma's imagine breaker....he cant alter the law of physics but can erase information, gravity in sort of way is something that just exist....not a phenomenon

haha. The imagine breaker shouldn't really be compared to tats decomposition. Theres no physics or logic behind it. Just erases any phenomenon thats considered divine or esper.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by bloodyclaws

haha. The imagine breaker shouldn't really be compared to tats decomposition. Theres no physics or logic behind it. Just erases any phenomenon thats considered divine or esper.

Spoiler for Touma off topic:

Touma's Imagine breaker doesn't work like that. It returns things to the natural state. If the natural state is supernatural than it doesn't destroy it. Think of it like a ruber band being stretched ... touma would only remove the force stretching the ruber band to return it to its unsretched state.

I think if anyone can find a way to decompose gravity and energy it is Tatsuya though. If I remember correctly did he decompose cast jamming at one point?

[FRS]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

I think if anyone can find a way to decompose gravity and energy it is Tatsuya though. If I remember correctly did he decompose cast jamming at one point?

It's more that his decomposition magic can work through cast jamming.

[SoloPanda]

"Why are you able to use magic while under Cast Jamming?"

Cast Jamming is a type of Non-Systemic Magic able to create psion noise that disrupts other people from casting magic. The psion noise caused by Antinite was designed to interfere with the formation of Magic Sequences.

Tatsuya simply decomposed that design and changed the oscillations of the psion noise.

Cast Jamming is an obstacle that obstructs the path of Magic Sequences. It was precisely this obstacle that Tatsuya used magic to dissolve.

well that was just my interpretation of this.

either way it probably doesn't affect the debate on decomposing things like gravity and such. (I was under the impression gravity is the attraction of to masses together. the only way to really get rid of it would be to destroy one of the masses i.e. the moon or something.)

[kfcpanda]

ch. 13 up yay