2012-06-23, 17:11 | Link #6321 |
Banned
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I think I finally figured it out... Aki has a real hard-on for seeing Signum and her device degraded. It's kinda like snuff porn to him!
Don't worry, Aki. In my fics, I will make sure Signum gets beat down often and regularly, and has her device broken every other chapter. Just for you!^^ |
2012-06-23, 19:00 | Link #6328 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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Signum at least should get one, though, for thematic reasons. |
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2012-06-24, 11:40 | Link #6329 | ||||||||||||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Well, it took me a bit more than i tought to come back but i'm here as promised. I see you guys had your fun with my previous posts so it's my turn now xD
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The AEC's only shine because of Eclipse, whose Devices are in severe disadvantage against. In any other scenario the original devices are far superior to their AEC cunterparts. Proficiency with magical shields and barriers proved several times to be a great and dinamyc way to rise your defenses and even twist opponent attacks in a practical, fast way. The actual need of physical shields is a step back in the proficiency of the cast in battle. If Signum didn't used a shield in the past was simply because it was completely unnecessary. Shame on the plot for forcing the cast to take such limited options. Quote:
So ok, AEC-Cleaver have superior durability than base Laevatein, granted. Laevatein's DESIGN is still superior. Quote:
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Again the only reason the AEC is needed is because plot says so xDU. Quote:
and well i already answered the last part of that post so let's move on... What works for Keroko, works for me xD! Quote:
Give me some credit, i did research to make sure my claims aren't baseless. Unfortunately it will be impossble to get a duel between Laevatein and AEC-Cleaver to see what's the better weapon and the most suited to Signum's true fightstyle and spirit. Quote:
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Please, you're saying it as if that were something new. Seems to be the general conception of Signum here from a long time ago xDU All i did was opening a window for them to chat about that again xDU Quote:
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Then they'll be suited up with their original powers for the final battle xD! Yup, i theorized the reason Hayate hasn't received an upgrade or AEC-Equipement yet is because it's simply a too difficult task to pull off just like that. Hayate's current Schertkrewz was created after 8 failed attempts of duplicating the original and was very hard to make a device that fits Hayate's magical nature which will make the applycation of the 5th Gen upgrade a dangerous step, they might end up destroying Schertkrewz ans thus leaving commander Hayate weapon-less. Maybe AEC-Equipements aren't suited to deal with Hayate's raw magical output yet. Quote:
According to the english translation of Ch. 20 Teana said Laevatein got installed countermeasures against Eclipse. So at the very least it will be cool if on their final encounter Cypha actually destroys Signum's AEC-Equipement so she neds up drawing Laevatein and ends up frying the tar out of her, true Signum style xD!
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2012-06-24, 12:24 | Link #6330 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Yes, because using a karyuu issen that covers a mile radius is an excellent choice of attack in the middle of a city. -_- Mages are capable of narrowing the focus for their attacks without sacrificing power, y'know.
And I am quite aware that devices have functionality the AEC aren't capable of, thank you. Just as I'm aware that this does not go for all devices either. The swiss army knife has always been an advantage of the main casts devices, and indeed one the AEC lacks. Also, there's a great variety of situations in the series prior where Signum would have benefited from a shield, so regardless of your "I hate shields!" attitude, claiming that it is a step back is a falsehood. Magic can be cast without swords and wands as well, I guess that means all devices could just be reduced to necklaces and bracelets? It's circular logic, Aki. And it doesn't work. But if you so desperately want me to compare, I will. And here's what I see: Long, wide cuts that leave Signum open as hell. You know, the kinds you keep complaining about, only twice as big. Also fun detail, Signum "dominating" was against an unreacted Cypha. That's like saying Signum was "dominating" an untransformed mage. Cute, but hardly comparable. And it cracked against an unreacted Cypha as well. Nope, not seeing the superiority here. I looked at the movie trailers, and even putting aside that the movies have a habit of cranking the powerscale up to 11 (seriously, movie 1 nanoha and Fate blow S1 Nanoha and Fate out of the water in all aspects) I stand by my claim. I still see the long, wide swings. Swings which you yourself claim are so terrible with the AEC. Yes, they are a bit faster than A's in this trailer, but I still fail to see how these swings are... superior to the fight in the manga. And what logic you use to come to that conclusion. And I warned you, didn't I? I warned you not to get me started on actual weapon use. But no, you decide to slam the AEC on realism. Fine. But you don't get to claim the grass is only green on your side. You slam the AEC on realism standpoints, I slam laevateine on realism standpoints. Fair's fair. No double standards. If you want to use "but magic" as an excuse, stop ignoring that Signum is still a mage regardless of her equipment and that the AEC uses magical technobable to do what they do. Signum can still enhance her EAC equipment with magic, because that's a magical skill, as defined in the StrikerS manga. And Aki? I've stopped giving you credit. Your bias shines through every single post and gets worse the deeper we get into a discussion. You ignore evidence, use double standards and hyperbole with what you present as valid, and even completely changed stances on an issue just to avoid admitting you were wrong, and then tried to keep acting as if that was always your opinion! No Aki, credit is something I can no longer give you. |
2012-06-24, 12:38 | Link #6331 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
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Kinda going off topic, though. S1 and S2 just kind of have ridiculous feats happening. |
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2012-06-24, 13:22 | Link #6332 | ||||||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Cypha's body and divider are enhaced with reacting but not her skills (unless her brain gets somehow smarter which doesn't have any evidence yet). Cypha was unable to match Signum in skill so she goes full reacted and destroyed her without any skill whatsoever. And last, an EC Driver isn't equal to an "unstranformed mage" by any means. Unreacted Dividers are very capable of offensive and powerfull attacks unlike standby form devices, Cypha was already wearing her combat clothing and her body is still very hard in that state. So no, i don't buy that argument. EC Drivers are dangerous for a reason, they're very pwoerfull even unreacted. There's a reason as of why Veryon is considered one of the most Badass members of the family. Quote:
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I see equal insistence on you to discredit any and every single piece of info i dropped here regarding the AEC-Cleaver/shield discussion, i see you're really enamoured of shields and hold your own opinions about them so i think we could stop here, but i really enjoy debating with people who made an effort to present well-ordered arguments so if you want to continue i'll follow suit xD You're right about one thing, tough. I'm here to express my opinion and expose my arguments over thinks i deem worthy of discussion, not to gather popularity or expect everyone to agree with my standpoint. So here are my views on the matter. Hope someone finds the reading interesting xD Quote:
At the settled scale the basic Divine Buster is an excellent anti-personel spell with very strong destructive force that can also be used as an anti-structure or even anti-building attack. The bigger the power up Nanoha uses the bigger the destructive power and area becomes.
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2012-06-24, 13:35 | Link #6333 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
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S2 even has more ridiculous things - Chrono freezing the ocean far past the horizon (dozens of kilometers) and then the combined attacks of Hayate, Nanoha, and Fate melting that ice entirely. Then you have this, an explosion with a size comparable to TSAB headquarters that was suppressed by a barrier. That's S Rank magic (besides Eternal Coffin) ... In StrikerS, Exelion Buster could match a S+ Rank attack in an AMF without the blaster system. Small town is kind of an understatement. Last edited by VezSketch; 2012-06-24 at 13:50. |
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2012-06-25, 10:16 | Link #6335 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I'll be wary of calling that a "victory" yet. Cypha left the field when she had the bigger advantage. That is Signum having her usefull AEC-Shield destroyed, left only with a Sword Cypha can easily dodge and counter-attack and Agito who can only annoy/distract Cypha a little on the outside, she seems to be more usefull on the inside where she can enhace Signum's raw mana output and also seems to compensate Signum's lack of durability somewhat (internal healing?). Cypha's only lost? an arm she can easily regrow.
Signum did well against Cypha, specially considering all the physical and teechnical disadvantages but the fight was left unconclusive as Signum wasn't able to achieve her goal (capturing Cypha) nor able to deal the descicive strike like Cypha did on their previous fight. Back then Cypha left the field victorious with Signum lying on a pool of her own blood, now Cypha gracefully fleed the battle almost in one piece while Signum failed her assignment ....again. Signum more likely will have a chance to finally settle the scores with Cypha by scoring a non-ambiguous and desicive victory over her.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-06-25 at 10:30. |
2012-06-25, 11:56 | Link #6340 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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A "loss" and a "defeat" are similar but not the same. A defeated opponent is the one who was clearly submited by the winner and who is in no condition to fight back whatsoever, be by being dead, uncouncsious or simply too beaten to continue. And Cypha still doesn't fall on that category. As i've said you can call this a "win" by using technicisms. But is like saying one boxer is better than another just because the other was in a hurry to go to the bathroom and leaves the fight xDU. Signum "won" without actually defeating Cypha, that only happen when she manages to conquer her opponent in an decisive way that cannot be questioned. I could call Signum a cheater herself for using equipement specifically desgned to fight Cypha's kind and ganging up on her with Agito but i refrain myself to go deeper into that train of tought because it's superfluous.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-06-25 at 12:21. |
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manga, nanoha force |
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