2011-12-12, 18:13 | Link #26221 | |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Evil twist theory time (Brief version): Yasu/Ikuko and Battler/Tohya committed the crime together, and their goal was to create the catbox and have the family as their pieces in an unending series of mysteries they enjoy together. And give them a happy ending sometimes, if they wish. |
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2011-12-12, 18:41 | Link #26222 | ||
The True Culprit
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2011-12-12, 19:22 | Link #26224 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Well, honestly if I were to kill everyone else before they were to realize someone is missing I'll either do while they are sleeping or by poison. Shooting them would be noisy and pontentially dangerous.
The Winchesters are old and don't have an eternal supply of shots so things can go wrong, especially if the people you're planning to kill is all awake and can move around and witness you trying to kill one of them. Some poisoned tea is a lot more sure and faster. |
2011-12-12, 21:52 | Link #26225 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Also, Rokkenjima is a cat box, with very little information coming out. What if whatever evidence Battler or Eva or whoever had pointed at the wrong person? If it's not solid enough for a conviction, is it really so important for the public to be aware of it? What right does the public have to hear a truth about the Ushiromiya family when they're all dead? Also, if you're arguing that Ryuukishi says "the truth shouldn't be pursued", then Will contradicts you by telling us to solve it like a mystery. The reason the truth shouldn't be pursued in the game is because Ange is a real person, and everyone she meets knows who she is and suspects her family. In our world, Ange isn't a real person.
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2011-12-12, 22:46 | Link #26226 | ||
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Join Date: May 2009
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Hiding the truth is morally wrong. Ange is not the only person in the world. She's not even the only remaining victim. Apparently you don't care about Nanjo's son? Gohda's theoretical mother? The other servants who weren't on the job that day? Captain Kawabata? Kinzo's lawyer? Quote:
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2011-12-12, 22:47 | Link #26227 | |||||
The True Culprit
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2011-12-12, 23:09 | Link #26229 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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We can't know unless somebody makes it possible for us to know. If they conceal it, they're doing a disservice.
And so what if Rudolf and Kyrie were the culprits? Why should Ange be shielded from that after 1998? She's an adult. She can make her own decisions. Why should someone else decide what she has a right to know?
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2011-12-12, 23:12 | Link #26230 | |
The True Culprit
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There's just no way to win this. As long as the truth is unknown, EVERYONE is treated as guilty. The only way to honor the innocent is to reveal who the guilty is. If Kyrie and Rudolf really DID do it, then they're going to be blamed either way. Atleast with the truth, Ange can trust her brother, or knows that Maria's mother wasn't a murderer, or something.
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2011-12-12, 23:38 | Link #26231 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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I don't think the game was talking about that kind of truth that you guys are talking about. From EP7 and 8, it seems like the kind of truth that the rumor mongering Witch Hunters were making was something like (and I don't ascribe to this theory, so this for illustrative purposes here
Rudolf, Kyrie and Battler went around killing everyone because they were trying to get all the gold for themselves! The truth part is: "Rudolf, Kyrie and Battler went around killing everyone" but the 'truth' that the game talks about seems to be more the opinion part of that sentence, the "because they were trying to get all the gold for themselves!" Basically the second part is unfounded, but possible, and was leading Ange astray. It's very easy for people to sneak in an opinion attached to a truth and many others will see it as also their personal 'truth' despite there being no real understanding of the situation. I know you guys are demanding the Truth truth; i.e. like the facts. That's no problem... but the other part, the vile rumor mongering as Aura said, seems to be the other 'truth' that the story talks about. Witness Ryukishi talking about how Evil Battler will continue to become 'true' the more it is discussed. Clearly this is not the factual Truth but opinions... |
2011-12-12, 23:48 | Link #26233 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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If the truth is something like EP7's tea party, Battler hardly knows anything of what happened on the island. Unless he heard from someone or was in on the plan, all he could possibly know is that Eva shot Rudolf and Kyrie, and maybe that Kyrie claimed she had tried to kill everyone (though he may not have heard that conversation). Even if he were to go forward and say "I saw the only other survivor kill my parents, and by the way, my Mom/Dad apparently killed a bunch of people", that wouldn't remove the suspicion from everyone else, would it? EP8 places a huge stress on one point: there is no red truth in the real world. I'd guess that has something to do with Eva's book being confirmed in red.
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2011-12-12, 23:58 | Link #26234 | |||
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2011-12-12, 23:59 | Link #26235 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Releasing the diary's contents to the public would accomplish exactly nothing. It wouldn't clear Eva's name, and it would fan the flames against Rudolf and Kyrie on top of that, without actually providing useful evidence to clear any of the other people.
Which, by the way, is still relying on the huge assumption that the diary exists and is in Tohya's hands in the first place. As opposed to being a fictional prop to drive fictional Ange's story. ed: To clarify, what makes you think Tohya himself knows anything about the two days at all? He never got those memories back.
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2011-12-13, 00:02 | Link #26236 | |
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You do not have the right to treat other people like children and decide what knowledge is or is not "useful." Someone could find a detail you never even noticed that, combined with other information you've never even heard of, blows the case wide open. You don't know, I don't know, none of us are in R-Prime. Explain to me how it hurts anything to know what Eva believed? There are people who would believe she is a liar. There are people who would believe she is telling the truth. Who are you to say whether these people should be forbidden to even have a chance to analyze the information?
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2011-12-13, 00:35 | Link #26237 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Just think about it. Everywhere you go, your face is recognized by everyone, and they think they know way more about you than they do. I firmly believe that is what makes most (okay, some) famous people insane (and I live in Southern California). Having your personal life exposed all the time to the world is not healthy, but at least most famous people choose to step into that life. And at least most are viewed as objects of desire unless they do something stupid. And, not naming names, but when you get famous as a kid, that's usually so much worse for you. This is assuming that you have a family that loves you, or at least one friend that you see on a regular basis. And, of course, not even 1 in every million of these people had anything to do with the Ushiromiya family. Do the other people truly deserve to know anything about Ange's family? Just because "it's the truth"? If Ange were a killer, I'd agree with you. But she isn't.
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2011-12-13, 00:46 | Link #26238 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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It doesn't matter whether some guy on a Witch Hunter forum could analyze the information and learn something new. He's not involved, and he doesn't have any right to it.
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2011-12-13, 00:47 | Link #26239 | ||
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Join Date: May 2009
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You're also willing to deny Truth to legitimate victims - you have conveniently ignored all the people AuraTwilight and I have pointed out who were connected to the family and were victimized by the tragedy - whom you also wish to exclude out of fear of what others might think, say, or do. This is wrong. You advocate a position that is morally despicable. What Battler and Beatrice are asking me to do is something I cannot in good moral conscience do. I can't respect their wishes, I can't respect Ikuko's actions, and I can't respect Ange for her selfishness (of course, this assumes she ever actually saw any such information, which she may not have). Ange chooses how the weight of the world affects her. That the world has dealt her a bad hand due to the information that has existed so far and the irresponsible way it's been handled does not mean moral ills are justified to correct that. Perhaps the Truth is liberating, perhaps it isn't. No one gets to make that decision if evil people lock it up in a box for selfish reasons. Quote:
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2011-12-13, 00:48 | Link #26240 | |||
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How do you release this information so that only THEY ever hear it? You either have to release it to everyone, or no one gets to see it. And why should Ange and everyone be punished because the rest of the world is irresponsible jerks? That's like making a law saying that no one can use the internet because some people use it to pirate music.
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