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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 20 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 22 | 16.54% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 22 | 16.54% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 33 | 24.81% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 29 | 21.80% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 16 | 12.03% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 7 | 5.26% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.75% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.75% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.75% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 0.75% | |
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-11-12, 19:32 | Link #121 | |
Winter is coming
Join Date: Aug 2008
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In fact this episode isn't slow-paced at all, just this is a slow part of the novel. If they try to keep up with the novel's pace, I don't think two or three episodes are enough.
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2009-11-12, 19:38 | Link #122 |
[E]
Join Date: Mar 2008
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while the kakera system has not been completely explained by ryoukishi, you can consider them different worlds/paralell relaities, with one "main" world which is the purgatorio, Ep4 gets confusing because it has scenes form purgatorio, episode4 world AND the episode 3 world as well.
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2009-11-12, 19:42 | Link #123 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Having read the VN makes me no less confused than the people watching this at times.
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2009-11-12, 19:42 | Link #124 |
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 32
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I commend Maria for not going creepy even once in this arc so far.~
Good god Rosa. Neglecting your kid like that. It's no wonder she became so immersed in the belief of magic and actually made Sakutaro a living thing. What the heck happened to her father anyway? I'm assuming he died but I could be wrong. A shota Sakutaro eh? Well the When They Cry series has been missing one of those, it ws inevitable I guess. xD So Maria's the apprentice of the Witch of Origins? Who's the current one? Lawl the Stakes and Sakutaro, must be tough being adorable. Ange was an apprentice in training too eh? So that's why Bernkastel called her Ange-Beatrice. Seems like she had a bit of a friendship with Mammon too, I would've liked to see that more in depth but oh well. =/ Ange apparently adores her big brother Battler, so nice to see siblings getting along like that.~ Lambdadelta has a point...and she has an ulterior objective to the game between Battler and Beato... (True main antagonist maybe?) Bring on ep. 21!
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2009-11-12, 20:09 | Link #125 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Maria is Beato's apprentice - she is just named the Witch of Origins. |
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2009-11-12, 20:12 | Link #126 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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The Stakes are a lot less scary when they're not on the job. Quote:
So, yeah--right now, it's looking like this whole situation is LD's doing. |
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2009-11-12, 20:13 | Link #127 | |
On a mission
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As for Ange training; somehow this reminds me of Future Trunks in DBZ where they go back in time and get stronger. I gave this episode an 8; I didn't really find it boring at all, though the part with Lambda wasn't very impressive.
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2009-11-12, 20:23 | Link #129 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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lots of questions! I´ll try my best to answer some (if I hadn´t been ninja´d already), but if someone can clarify something further, please do Spoiler for answers and whatever possible spoiler:
well, here you go, I did my best, but again if someone can add more to it, the plesase do it. Especially in that one about gameboard!Ange timeline EDIT: wow! did get ninja´d really fast XD |
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2009-11-12, 20:36 | Link #130 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Cologne (Germany)
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I'm confused xD
And whats with all the german references anyway? Zugzwang means you're forced to play your turn / you're forced to take action Gretel is (alhtough I guess this was explained before) a name from a german fairytale (Hänsel & Gretel) where 2 silblings get lost in the woods and get caught by a witch. The witch makes the girl a kind of maid and wants to eat the boy but the girl saves her brother by tossing the witch into an oven. The name kinda fits :P And Mammon means a large amount of money though this might be a coincidence. ~~~ This is getting more and more confusing. But now I'm pretty sure that magic actually means "believing into something til it turns real". Back when Beato broke the base and virgilia helped here they just believed that the cat destroyed the vase until it became their reality. Maria doesnt want to be angry at her mom and so she just believes whatever she needs so she doesnt have to blame her. But she's also very lonely so she makes up friends. Beato signed this thing which could mean that she accepted Marias imaginary friend and play along. And I really think that the "maintheme" is that, once you make others believe into something, it becomes real. Thats why Beato signing that Marias animal is real "made" him real for Maria. I can also see how Marias animal is her "other side", she IS getting scizophrenic from being lonely all the time. She knows what is really going on with Rosa but she makes up this other personality to convince herself that Rosa loves her etc. The animal also is a present from Rosa so it might be an "embodiment" of Rosas love for her. Maybe this is the "secret" behind these magic items, they just help to make you believe what you want to believe because they're connected to what you want to believe. So for angi who misses her family these hairthings (dunno the name xD) might prove that Battler is still with her and that she can resque him. IMO we can at least pretty savely assure that Maria has some kind of split personality issue going on. And this could explain a lot of earlier stuff, shes not possesed or anything, she just has kind of a screw loose :/ Though the question is, why does she make up creepy characters insteaf of yellow animals? Maybe thats her way to deal with all the horrible stuff going on? She cant really take it so she talks about how this is all part of Beatos plan and that they'll all be revived in the golden land. This is her way of denying that everyone is dead for real. About Lambadelta, I guess she just wants to screw with Bernkastel, Bernkastel is the witch who can make a miracle happen so she tries to find allies who help her to prevent this miracle. This way Bernkastel would be trapped forever / maybe would loose her powers completly? About the timeline, Ange is from the 3rd timeline but Bernkastel brough her to the 4th one because when she picked her up the 3rd timeline was already over. This just leaves one question: - Why are the messages in the bottles from the 1st and 2nd timeline appearing in the 3rd one? One of them might be reasonable because tehy might be the same in the end (like the mion/shion arcs from higurashi) but 2 bottles appearing means that there has to be some kind of mash up between the timelines. THIS ALSO MEANS THAT, IF THE TIMELINES ARE MIXING UP ETC ANGE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE BATTLER AGAIN SOMEHOW I just hope we dont run into issues like paradoxons, time traveling & different realities now. (Like DBZ Trunks) This would make it confusing beyond anything. I'm pretty sure I made some good guesses with that.
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2009-11-12, 21:29 | Link #132 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Aw, I was so looking forward to the family conference...
Instead we mostly just get the super-abridged version of Ange's origin story. Which isn't a bad thing, mind you, since it was mostly self-introspection that you can't really animate. They could have done something with the breaking of the stakes though - I can't imagine any anime-only viewers were able to even figure out what was going on there. I do have to wonder why they were so quick on the "Rosa's off with some guy" reveal - I'm pretty sure in the novel we didn't find out she wasn't really off on business work until after she'd dropped her receipt and snapped at Maria for looking at it. Foreknowledge just blunts the impact. They did do a really good job with Maria's bits though. |
2009-11-12, 21:43 | Link #133 |
[E]
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The bootlesare my favorite part, theory wise of this part of the arc. those mean that beatrice actually remembers what happens between worlds and thus is able to write
a letter tht details the murder of Episode 1 and 2, which I assume are he regular kakera that happen hundreds of times; then we have lambda delta messing up with one kakera and creating the unique Episode 3 kakerawhich is what creates the ange piece that bernkastel uses in the metaworld. truer words have never been spoken. |
2009-11-12, 22:41 | Link #134 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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episode was okay, but i want more anybody other than Ange pleeeeaaase love Maria scenes oh and btw Spoiler:
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2009-11-12, 23:35 | Link #135 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I found this episode pretty enjoyable~ =)
..though, some parts such as Ange's flashback & Rosa's animation (some) seems kinda off... Sakutaro's transformation into shota scene & Maria's witch outfit is cute~ ^^ Many people complained about Lambda-Ange's scene but as anime-only viewer, I thought it was quite okay... |
2009-11-13, 02:54 | Link #137 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
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In Episode 20, Maria picked up a receipt of an inn.
It has some points of contradiction. Spoiler for size:
Here's translation. ------------------------------------------- RECEIPT August 9, Showa 62 Mr./Ms. (empty) 24,720 yen As a room charge we surely received Breakdown Sum excluding tax 24,000 yen Consumption tax, etc. (3%) 720 yen Hot spring inn Rakugyo** ** **cho, Atami city, Shizuoka prefecture, 418 Phone 0557-**-**** ------------------------------------------- Showa 62 is A.D. 1987. And Japanese government adopted consumption tax in 1989. Wait, didn't Rosa and Maria die or miss in October 1986 ? Possible reasons : 1. DEEN mistook. 2. Content written in the receipt is Ange's delusion. 3. Content written in Maria's diary is someone's fabrication. One more mystery is that there is no name of the payer in the receipt. Possible reasons : 1. DEEN mistook. 2. Rosa was going to manage the room charge as expenditure of her company. 3. Payer was Rosa's partner. He handed the receipt to Rosa. Zip code "418" and phone numbers "0557" correctly correspond to Atami's. Zip code has 7 numbers now in Japan, but before 1998 it had only 3 numbers. Last edited by Dormeur; 2009-11-13 at 03:59. Reason: misspellings |
2009-11-13, 06:52 | Link #139 | |
Senior Member
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It is either a slight mistake or a very subtle hint...well I'll go with the mistake for now, it's not like that many people will look for the date on the receipt when first watching the show...but still it annoys somehow.
It COULD be explained in a rather convulted way if for example Rosa herself was not that fit with Japanese dates...who knows maybe Kinzo only taught them Western dates. It happened to me, too, that because a woman in a shop didn't know how to convert I was somehow suddenly born in Showa 52 (77) on a point-card when I'm actually born in 59...so it's not like there's no escape for the story if it really is a mistake Quote:
After Episode 1 we only learned of the letter fitting the first Episode being fished out by the fisherman. We never learned about anything in the future of Episode 2. And after Episode 3 (what we get to know in Episode 4) there were 2 bottles being found AND Eva came home... We 'know' that the events of 1 and 2 could not have happened, because Eva is there now. So (in a 'no metaphysics explanation') either somebody planted all those bottles hoping that there would be only one washing to the shore/no contact between those who find them...or somebody planned precisely what is happening now, many people all over Japan trying to figure out the mystery of the 'Witch's Murder on Rokkenjima', what better way is there to make the witch immortal. And isn't it a much nicer convulted mystery if you've got a ton of clues, instead of one where you have non?
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