AnimeSuki Forums

cicido · 2007-10-23, 19:26

I don't see the point, if Japan think that just by stopping fan sub would increase the DVD sale well that's just wrong.

If people won't buy DVD after fansub I highly doubt that they will buy it without fansub.
All my money spent on anime won't even be spent if there were no fan sub to start with.

Yosho · 2007-10-23, 19:30

I have to say I've been a big proponent of subscriptions and try before you buy programs. I used to run an Anime Club; obviously we didn't have a lot of money. So besides members bringing in anime's that they owned, we would preview 2-3 episodes of fansubs for a set of series. From that we voted on which series we would use the clubs money to buy. I tried to work with VIZ, Bandai, AnimeEigo and a few others to work out a completely legit way of doing this, and they cooperated a little; however they would only send us what they wanted us to have. It was sad really. But we got cool free stuff like T-Shirts and mouse pads. ^_^

As other have said the future is on the internet. Having an inexpensive way of preview/buying/renting/whatever Anime and other media is the way to go. I say inexpensive because no one wants to pay DVD price for online media. I would gladly participate in this.

Nowadays I earn enough money that I can buy DVD's on a whim; so I've collected quite a bit of anime both online and offline. Can I get a B+ for effort? Please?

CandyVanMan · 2007-10-23, 20:01

I'm rather simple minded.

Japan: I have money, you want it. You have Anime, I want it. Let's make a deal. Sell it to me or I'll take it for myself.

Zhemos · 2007-10-23, 20:05

When is Japan going to learn that fansubs HELP promote anime.

I'll tell you right now. If I had never stumbled across a certain website 5 years ago and downloaded Love Hina I would have probably never gotten into anime, nor would I have spent the thousand some dollars I have invested right now in anime DvDs.

psycho bolt · 2007-10-23, 20:05

Wtf, asking america to stop illegal distributing anime? Lols like that gonna happen. Not like the rest of the world is gonna listen too. Besides America is only a small part of illegal distribution. And the evidences that point pirating anime doesn't effect sales....just like music downloading.

Bleh, words come outta government mouths these days..

"the ministry says the fundamental problem remains unresolved for the foreseeable future" - what foreseeable future? I'm interested in your explaination of the future

SuperAsuradaGundam · 2007-10-23, 20:13

Looks like we're going to have a long talk about this.

Lets wait and see what the government does and how the industry reacts.

Altema · 2007-10-23, 20:13

Yes, music downloading does not effect sales. That's why musicians and artists love to spend money for lawyer fees to fight something that does not harm them in any way.

Again, you have these cases where people discovered fansubs, downloaded anime, and proceeded to buy DVDs. Then you have the flip side where people have 2 TB of anime, probably 1.5 TB not even watched, and they don't spend a dime on anime. Now if they had previewed a series, and could not get it anywhere else, they may have purchased something. But such a system would not matter if everything is free.

For a lot of people, the DVD's offer very little reason to purchase a series versus having the fansubs.

psycho bolt · 2007-10-23, 20:30

The thing is that anime is distributed on TV in which we watch can watch without paying every show.

Altema · 2007-10-23, 20:32

And your point is? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

psycho bolt · 2007-10-23, 20:37

Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

neutralizer · 2007-10-23, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

Not to mention, it takes so long for the DVDs to be released.

On side note, I hate the subtitle text looks on DVD

Crystal Requiem · 2007-10-23, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by neutralizer

Not to mention, it takes so long for the DVDs to be released.

Lol, from what I hear, if you live in Canada, you're screwed. Waiting for DVDs of anime that we would know nothing about is bogus. And American commercials for anime are so stupid.

Altema · 2007-10-23, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

Lack of demand and airtime would be two reasons.

bayoab · 2007-10-23, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

I will not bother disproving the whole free bit as it is not free, but if we assume it was aired on cable in the US, it would be closer to equivalent.
And the answer is because people don't watch it on television. If anime really did that well on the air, there would be more of it. It is that simple. But beside Naruto and Pokemon and the like, anime gets horrible ratings and thus cannot pull in advertising money. If they cannot find advertising money to pay for the shows, they don't air them. It is simple economics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhemos

When is Japan going to learn that fansubs HELP promote anime.

And that 95% of the people who download fansubs and never buy a disc help how?

ZeRoGravity · 2007-10-23, 21:10

I actually found Japan's action amusing. "Asking" usually doesn't help. I'm sure America have more important things to worry about than the anime industry.

Altema · 2007-10-23, 21:12

NBC asked me to stop downloading their movies, but asking helped there T________T.

Zaris · 2007-10-23, 21:23

As long as the US has better things to crack down like terrorists and drugs, they won't care. The illegal net releases here aren't exactly illegal until the US licenses them officially, anyway. It's one country's ethics over another's.

The scale of unlicensed anime releases indicates something very obvious: there is a high demand for Japanese animation outside their borders. Clubs and conventions wills it. And fansubbers have been declared valued contributors to the market's advertising and success largely by overcoming the behemoth language gap, not to mention more accurate, better styled, and less imposing subtitles. This puts fansubs a step ahead in the game especially when a program starts airing. In short, the industry has done nothing to persuade audiences into buying their merchandise, and now they're having a fit with their marketers trying to meet a demand the industry's been slow with coping.

aohige · 2007-10-23, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho bolt

Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

And what about the bootleg copies of movies, OVAs, pay-per-view shows, paid cable/satellite shows, and other purchased-only incentive shows that's rampant in the torrent streams? Even with legal issues aside, morally, those should never be available as free pirated downloads without rightholders' consent.

Heck, I bet majority of people who download those anime shows off P2P don't even know if those are TV airwave shows or paid shows.

As for "watching TV broadcast shows for free because it was originally free in Japan"...
I would agree with it, only if the fansubs and pirates include the original TV ads.
To be fair, you should watch the CM too right?

But no, even though it's the advertising sponsors that funds the anime being made, illegal copies over the net cuts them out. That's simply not right.

Too bad their products aren't internationally available though.

mcruz1014 · 2007-10-23, 21:28

All I can say is that this has probably been said and done before, though probably in more private talks between politicians. So it would make sense that the American government probably didn't listen before, causing the Japanese gov. to bring the request public.

I doubt that this will change much of anything. The most that would happen would be a tougher crackdown on video sharing sites like youtube (which we've also seen before, and the internet community responded by uploading anime in larger numbers, at a more frequent pace).

Remember all the fuss about illegal music file sharing not too long ago (and that was from America's own industry), and you'll see that not much has changed with that situation, nor will it with anime fansubs.

the.Merines · 2007-10-23, 21:45

Is this really talking about fansubbing, directly? Seems more to me like it refers to streaming sites like Youtube, etc., who allow anyone to upload anything. Sure, if they see an episode of a licensed series up'd there, they delete it, but it's only a matter of time before someone else uploads the same thing.

Streaming of (R1) licensed anime over the internet is bad for DVD sales, and thus bad for the industry. Japanese distributors can easily go after these types of sites. Things like IRC and torrents, though, are far more difficult to stifle.

2007-10-23, 21:10	Link #35
ZeRoGravity Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Canada Age: 36	I actually found Japan's action amusing. "Asking" usually doesn't help. I'm sure America have more important things to worry about than the anime industry. __________________

2007-10-23, 21:45	Link #40
the.Merines Seeker of Power Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ΔHidden Forbidden Holy Ground Age: 39	Is this really talking about fansubbing, directly? Seems more to me like it refers to streaming sites like Youtube, etc., who allow anyone to upload anything. Sure, if they see an episode of a licensed series up'd there, they delete it, but it's only a matter of time before someone else uploads the same thing. Streaming of (R1) licensed anime over the internet is bad for DVD sales, and thus bad for the industry. Japanese distributors can easily go after these types of sites. Things like IRC and torrents, though, are far more difficult to stifle. __________________ I am bound to pay the debt I owe.

2007-10-23, 19:26	Link #21
cicido I'm so moe I kill myself Artist Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: your basement	I don't see the point, if Japan think that just by stopping fan sub would increase the DVD sale well that's just wrong. If people won't buy DVD after fansub I highly doubt that they will buy it without fansub. All my money spent on anime won't even be spent if there were no fan sub to start with.

2007-10-23, 19:30	Link #22
Yosho Putting ice in icecream Join Date: Jul 2007	I have to say I've been a big proponent of subscriptions and try before you buy programs. I used to run an Anime Club; obviously we didn't have a lot of money. So besides members bringing in anime's that they owned, we would preview 2-3 episodes of fansubs for a set of series. From that we voted on which series we would use the clubs money to buy. I tried to work with VIZ, Bandai, AnimeEigo and a few others to work out a completely legit way of doing this, and they cooperated a little; however they would only send us what they wanted us to have. It was sad really. But we got cool free stuff like T-Shirts and mouse pads. ^_^ As other have said the future is on the internet. Having an inexpensive way of preview/buying/renting/whatever Anime and other media is the way to go. I say inexpensive because no one wants to pay DVD price for online media. I would gladly participate in this. Nowadays I earn enough money that I can buy DVD's on a whim; so I've collected quite a bit of anime both online and offline. Can I get a B+ for effort? Please?

2007-10-23, 20:01	Link #23
CandyVanMan Part Time Hikikomori Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the state of a deep trance Age: 46	I'm rather simple minded. Japan: I have money, you want it. You have Anime, I want it. Let's make a deal. Sell it to me or I'll take it for myself.

2007-10-23, 20:05	Link #24
Zhemos Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Blah Age: 40	When is Japan going to learn that fansubs HELP promote anime. I'll tell you right now. If I had never stumbled across a certain website 5 years ago and downloaded Love Hina I would have probably never gotten into anime, nor would I have spent the thousand some dollars I have invested right now in anime DvDs.

2007-10-23, 20:05	Link #25
psycho bolt Cowmaster Join Date: Nov 2006	Wtf, asking america to stop illegal distributing anime? Lols like that gonna happen. Not like the rest of the world is gonna listen too. Besides America is only a small part of illegal distribution. And the evidences that point pirating anime doesn't effect sales....just like music downloading. Bleh, words come outta government mouths these days.. "the ministry says the fundamental problem remains unresolved for the foreseeable future" - what foreseeable future? I'm interested in your explaination of the future

2007-10-23, 20:13	Link #26
SuperAsuradaGundam Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Philadelphia, Pa	Looks like we're going to have a long talk about this. Lets wait and see what the government does and how the industry reacts.

2007-10-23, 20:13	Link #27
Altema Simple Join Date: Jul 2006	Yes, music downloading does not effect sales. That's why musicians and artists love to spend money for lawyer fees to fight something that does not harm them in any way. Again, you have these cases where people discovered fansubs, downloaded anime, and proceeded to buy DVDs. Then you have the flip side where people have 2 TB of anime, probably 1.5 TB not even watched, and they don't spend a dime on anime. Now if they had previewed a series, and could not get it anywhere else, they may have purchased something. But such a system would not matter if everything is free. For a lot of people, the DVD's offer very little reason to purchase a series versus having the fansubs.

2007-10-23, 20:30	Link #28
psycho bolt Cowmaster Join Date: Nov 2006	The thing is that anime is distributed on TV in which we watch can watch without paying every show.

2007-10-23, 20:32	Link #29
Altema Simple Join Date: Jul 2006	And your point is? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

2007-10-23, 20:37	Link #30
psycho bolt Cowmaster Join Date: Nov 2006	Since Japanese can watch anime freely on TV, why can't Americans get the same thing? We have no way of getting anime besides Fansubs. And I'm sure we don't wanna spend money on things we haven't previewed.

2007-10-23, 21:12	Link #36
Altema Simple Join Date: Jul 2006	NBC asked me to stop downloading their movies, but asking helped there T________T.

2007-10-23, 21:23	Link #37
Zaris of Porsche Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pasadena, California Age: 39	As long as the US has better things to crack down like terrorists and drugs, they won't care. The illegal net releases here aren't exactly illegal until the US licenses them officially, anyway. It's one country's ethics over another's. The scale of unlicensed anime releases indicates something very obvious: there is a high demand for Japanese animation outside their borders. Clubs and conventions wills it. And fansubbers have been declared valued contributors to the market's advertising and success largely by overcoming the behemoth language gap, not to mention more accurate, better styled, and less imposing subtitles. This puts fansubs a step ahead in the game especially when a program starts airing. In short, the industry has done nothing to persuade audiences into buying their merchandise, and now they're having a fit with their marketers trying to meet a demand the industry's been slow with coping.

2007-10-23, 21:28	Link #39
mcruz1014 Eye Have You Join Date: Jul 2007	All I can say is that this has probably been said and done before, though probably in more private talks between politicians. So it would make sense that the American government probably didn't listen before, causing the Japanese gov. to bring the request public. I doubt that this will change much of anything. The most that would happen would be a tougher crackdown on video sharing sites like youtube (which we've also seen before, and the internet community responded by uploading anime in larger numbers, at a more frequent pace). Remember all the fuss about illegal music file sharing not too long ago (and that was from America's own industry), and you'll see that not much has changed with that situation, nor will it with anime fansubs.