Gundam SEED Destiny (Phase 1 Discussion)

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Shift_

You probally will NEED to watch Gseed (since that's destiny is the direct sequel 2 years after)

Well its a direct sequel but its about (mostly) a new cast, so it won't be different from watching Char's Counterattack without watching Zeta and ZZ (which happens to be the case with most people with the way Bandai Ent is releasing Gundam)

Anyways, is it jsut me or are they totally just using generic faces and hair, and randomly changing eye and hair color to make a new character?

Shin looks almost identical to Kira ><

Well, I guess Hisashi Hirai has a few faces in his repetoir, and he just assign them one by one to all the characters he makes... So if you look at every one of his anime there's a character who looks a certain way...

And of course, there's the fact that he's not allowed to make some crazy hairstyles to make his characters unique. If people pay attention, most anime character designers drawn their characters the same way... Its just that their hair is the attribute that makes them different most of the time, and Hirai's style is unique and people aren't use to it enough...

[Shift_]

seriously...if I was subbing this series.

I'd spend a few min at the beginging of each series with a slide show showing off the diffrent characters and how they LOOK the same (and what the diffrences are)

some of the voices in some of the scenes are similar enough, that they should put "editor's notes" to mark which people are in this scene so we don't think it's a diffrent character haha

but I guess you're right...however I never had that problem with gseed, but when I just started watchign gseed 2 I thought another girl was calgari (sp?) and shin was kira all very confusing.

[ZGMF-X10A]

ya i tought shinn was kira and stella was calgari... who is Lunamaria btw... she is calgari?? or what is Lunamaria.... O.o

[Timeless Enigma]

Watching the Phase 1 RAW... I'm confused as hell. And even more confused when I tried to read this thread for some answers.

I can't even tell who Kira is and who Shin is, damn.

So from what I gather, the "protagonist" this time is an equivalent of the prequel's "antagonist" (in terms of organizations).

The first phase was nice... but I was sitting here in my chair thinking "Now where have I seen this before!!!???" when the Gundams got stolen.

So the lowdown is, Kira is now a supporting character, his mind is warped because of what happened in SEED (does Frey have something to do with that?). He's disappeared for a long time only to return and save Cagalli and Athrun in whatever that Transformable Mobile Armor was (that was him right?)

Then there's all these look-alikes and "clones" of dead and living people?

Is there any sort of site that someone can provide to clear this up, or must I simply wait for the subs, and for more episodes?

Anyway, I hope Kira gets significant screentime too, he reminded me of Shinji... only better. I hope he doesn't get the shaft.

[sarcasteak]

Can someone screencap all of the characters and label them? I'm really getting confused by all these names thrown out...

[srb]

Correct Brightman, the ZZ is a big lumbering fool (but a loveable lumbering fool), but then ZZ was targeted at the same audience that SEED D is.

And there's also the RX-78 and all the useless "accessories" that came with its core-block system. Heck, even the Zeta Gundam's transformation took a bit of time sometimes.

Well, in the novel and in the movies the Core Block System is just used as a means of escape; It was more or less treated as an ejection experiment. In the TV series all of the gimicky combinations was to raise the sales of the toys, I don't deny that, but Tomino removed it in the movies. I always thought it looked a bit dumb to be honest :P

And the Zeta transformations are very quick to me most of the time - like when Judau is going up against Purus Qubeley and then re-enter the atmosphere. That's probably the fastest I can think of.

And the Zeta also has the advantage of being able to move about while transforming, which the Impulse doesn't seem to be able to do while combining.

Hopefully the Destiny will be a funnier MS.

[rainz]

So from what I gather, the "protagonist" this time is an equivalent of the prequel's "antagonist" (in terms of organizations).

Seed's antagonists are pretty much extremist factions in Zaft and EA, with Orb being the protagonist. We don't really know enough about Destiny to draw such conclusion here.

So the lowdown is, Kira is now a supporting character, his mind is warped because of what happened in SEED (does Frey have something to do with that?). He's disappeared for a long time only to return and save Cagalli and Athrun in whatever that Transformable Mobile Armor was (that was him right?)

That was Shin, not Kira. For all we know, Kira could be sitting in some island relaxing.

[srb]

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

Watching the Phase 1 RAW... I'm confused as hell. And even more confused when I tried to read this thread for some answers.

I can't even tell who Kira is and who Shin is, damn.

So from what I gather, the "protagonist" this time is an equivalent of the prequel's "antagonist" (in terms of organizations).

The first phase was nice... but I was sitting here in my chair thinking "Now where have I seen this before!!!???" when the Gundams got stolen.

So the lowdown is, Kira is now a supporting character, his mind is warped because of what happened in SEED (does Frey have something to do with that?). He's disappeared for a long time only to return and save Cagalli and Athrun in whatever that Transformable Mobile Armor was (that was him right?)

Then there's all these look-alikes and "clones" of dead and living people?

Is there any sort of site that someone can provide to clear this up, or must I simply wait for the subs, and for more episodes?

Anyway, I hope Kira gets significant screentime too, he reminded me of Shinji... only better. I hope he doesn't get the shaft.

It's rather easy to tell who Kira is and Shin is. It would be easier if Shin hadn't lost his funky hat though.

Kira - brown hair, purple eyes, darker complexion.
Shin - dark purple hair, red eyes, lighter complexion.

And Kira has no transformable mobile armor - you can see him fighting Shin in the Impulse with the Freedom in the op (in a Creuset - Flaga like way). He also has the black uniform of the EA commandos.

And yeah, I want Kira to have screentime as well - he's a little angsty but he's a nice boy. And he's a good pilot too; He could probably play along with the best of the UC pilots even if he isn't a Newtype just because of his skills and Coordination.

[Enron]

I watched the Seed D raw earlier tonight. I knew i would hate it, since seed was absolutely hideous. And i have but one thing to say after seeing destiny.

I want to spit.

And vomit.

Gundam Seed and Seed D almost undo nearly 20 years of following Gundam for me. At this point, I'd almost rather see the franchise just killed and buried in the pasture than to keep bastardizing it.

[Timeless Enigma]

Hm... simple proof that I don't even know who is who anymore. My mind is boggled.

Hopefully things will start making sense later on. I hope Kira's enjoying his long vacation on that island.

[srb]

Originally Posted by Enron

I watched the Seed D raw earlier tonight. I knew i would hate it, since seed was absolutely hideous. And i have but one thing to say after seeing destiny.

I want to spit.

And vomit.

Gundam Seed and Seed D almost undo nearly 20 years of following Gundam for me. At this point, I'd almost rather see the franchise just killed and buried in the pasture than to keep bastardizing it.

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

I think it's good that there are series that take it in a new direction, and like it or not, SEED revitalized Gundam. There are talks about an animated UC series for 2005/2006, isn't there? And we'll have the Zeta movies soon as well.

And come on, you can't judge something after just one episode. That's just as ignorant as some of the Wingers who doesn't want to watch MSG because it has older animation.

[Blaat]

^Or SEEDers for that matter

[dreamless]

one thing I'm concerned is that it seems the series totally forgot the Coordinator idea now... Coordinators should be genetically enhanced humans who are by all accounts near superhuman level. But now it seems these enhanced humans are like... what? super-super-humans? and the Coordinators doesn't show even anything like having superhuman reflex or whatnot...

[Timeless Enigma]

Who are the enhanced humans? Did I miss something during Gundam SEED or is this something that occured in Destiny?

[Enron]

Originally Posted by srb

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

I think it's good that there are series that take it in a new direction, and like it or not, SEED revitalized Gundam. There are talks about an animated UC series for 2005/2006, isn't there? And we'll have the Zeta movies soon as well.

And come on, you can't judge something after just one episode. That's just as ignorant as some of the Wingers who doesn't want to watch MSG because it has older animation.

No, im judging it on 52 episodes. 51 of Seed, and one of Seed D.

Revitalized Gundam? Gundam doesn't need revitalizing. Its been around for 25 years. Seed didnt save it. Seed brought a lot of new fans into the fold, yeah, but its not like Gundam was on life-support before it.

Taking it in a new direction? If by "new direction", you mean "rip-off" nearly verbatim, then yeah, i guess. Huge parts of seed merely weren't "based" on Gundam, it was lifted STRAIGHT from gundam. They didnt even bother to change the events (*cough* Desert *cough*), they just changed the names of the characters.

Seed D is headed down the Zeta path. Itll be interesting to see how closely it mirrors Z.

After one ep. of seed D, i can already pick out the equivalent Zeta characters.

Athrun - char/quattro (right down to the freakin' glasses)
Shin - Camille
Stella - Four
Kira - this one is too obvious

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by Enron

I watched the Seed D raw earlier tonight. I knew i would hate it, since seed was absolutely hideous. And i have but one thing to say after seeing destiny.

I want to spit.

And vomit.

Gundam Seed and Seed D almost undo nearly 20 years of following Gundam for me. At this point, I'd almost rather see the franchise just killed and buried in the pasture than to keep bastardizing it.

Well, you don't have to watch it. Fact is though, Seed is a cash-cow for Bandai, and maybe they'll appropriate some of the profit made from Seed to a UC-related series to satisfy the older Gundam fans. I say it's a win-win situation. You'd save some time and stomach acid from not watching Seed, and can be happy in a year or two that you'll be watching a Gundam series more or less catered to your tastes, supported out of pocket by legions of Seed fangirls and fanboys.

Seed isn't great, but if it wasn't popular then they wouldn't make a sequel. I'd agree with srb in that it's good to try new things with an old franchise. It certainly paid off for Bandai.

[Enron]

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

Who are the enhanced humans? Did I miss something during Gundam SEED or is this something that occured in Destiny?

in the Universal century universe, you had Newtypes and attempts at creating artificial ones, the strengthened humans of Zeta.

Of course, in the great rip-off that is the Seed franchise, we know them as "Coordinators" and the artificially enhanced pilots of the EA *the idiot trio in Seed and the trio to which Stella belongs to in D*

[Enron]

Originally Posted by Realist_Classic

Well, you don't have to watch it. Fact is though, Seed is a cash-cow for Bandai, and maybe they'll appropriate some of the profit made from Seed to a UC-related series to satisfy the older Gundam fans. I say it's a win-win situation. You'd save some time and stomach acid from not watching Seed, and can be happy in a year or two that you'll be watching a Gundam series more or less catered to your tastes, supported out of pocket by legions of Seed fangirls and fanboys.

Seed isn't great, but if it wasn't popular then they wouldn't make a sequel. I'd agree with srb in that it's good to try new things with an old franchise. It certainly paid off for Bandai.

Right, and in doing so, they put out a crappy product. Watered down for the masses...the same that will flock to the next big thing once seed is done. They aren't going to be turned on to UC gundam...they'll just watch it and say "this isn't like seed", then be off to join whatever the newest hot show is. Gundam makes enough money as it is, UC and non-suck gundam don't need Seed to help fund 'em.

[wao]

I can understand the general annoyance with Hisashi Hirai having really plain character designs that are all the same (mind you, I watched a bit of Fafner and then started watching SEED and I kept going "eh? wait, why is Miriallia sounding so weird?" and then I started wondering where the hell Athrun's Fafner was ) ...

But I suppose the most logical reason behind this isn't that he's totally out of ideas (surely you can't be so out of ideas), but rather that he has to make them look generally the same so that the animators can draw them more easily, and therefore you (should) get more consistent drawing and better animation (since they can draw more frames since they're used to drawing it). ..
But honestly, ... I really couldn't tell whether it was Cagalli or Stellar when I first saw the OP... :[

And I still wish they wouldn't make Cagalli look so weak during battle...

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by Enron

Right, and in doing so, they put out a crappy product. Watered down for the masses...the same that will flock to the next big thing once seed is done. They aren't going to be turned on to UC gundam...they'll just watch it and say "this isn't like seed", then be off to join whatever the newest hot show is. Gundam makes enough money as it is, UC and non-suck gundam don't need Seed to help fund 'em.

Well, that's assuming a few thousand from the hundreds of thousands who flock to Seed won't be curious to find out more about classic Gundam. I've seen a number of people who after watching Seed began looking around for other Gundam series (plenty of them hanging around the two or three foras and IRC channels). A few of them do become hardcore Gundam fans who do appreciate among other things, a decent plot, good character designs and what other attributes which give reason to like older Gundam series. What's more, they also tend to be more articulate and evangelize and try to get others into Gundam by word of mouth. Bandai recognizes this and that's why they are going to make the Zeta movies to get more people interested in their older products and to become quasi patrons for their merchandising.

Also, any hardcore following tends to be a minute but vocal minority. Be happy that you are part of that minority who know more (and arguably, better taste). However, Bandai is a profit-making corporation, and making enough money is never enough in a competitive market environment.