Code Geass Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Missilebuster]

dude what lelouch did to shirley by not paying attention was mean not to mention foolish. She's hot, and he was friggen thinking of his friend!?!?! I dont know if he didnt "pay attention" on purpose or not but im pretty sure her boat has sailed now

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Missilebuster

dude what lelouch did to shirley by not paying attention was mean not to mention foolish. She's hot, and he was friggen thinking of his friend!?!?! I dont know if he didnt "pay attention" on purpose or not but im pretty sure her boat has sailed now

Are you sure?
Remember, Shirely had been after Lelouch for some time now. For as long as Lelouch isn't seeing anyone, I doubt Shirely would give up just yet. Characters like Lelouch tend to attract (problematic) female attention, for the simple reason of annoying the character plotwise.
e.g. Shirely's phone call in episode 1 nearly got Lelouch killed.

[Matrim]

Originally Posted by cyoti

I'd point out terrorism coupled with good PR is probably going to accomplish far less as recent events in our world have show.

Well, many of the freedom fighters of previous centuries and even more recent years would be branded as terrorists by today's standards, yet some of them did achieve freedom. I don't want to give examples because we would be getting into history and politics but I am willing to listen to examples of idealism, and only idealism toppling an empire in the height of its power, especially when the idealist was virtually alone. Sure, terrorism often backfires but Suzaku's alternative is no alternative at all. Even if he made it to the top and became the top ranked general or whatever, he would still be viewed as Britannian lapdog and hated by his compatriots. And from what we have seen in order to do that he would have to do some rather nasty deeds - kill civilians, betray his superiors to be promoted more quickly and so on. So yes, he has some very small chance of undermining the system from within but only if he becomes a ruthless bastard. If not, he could be just a small example against the Britannians' prejudice agaisnt other people but since we know he is a main character this is not a realistic option either and he will be faced with a very difficult choice sooner or later.
And as said, I don't think Lelouch's strategy will be based on terrorism anyway, he has a bigger fish to fry. The most he could achieve by terrorism is make the Britannians wthdraw from Japan but he doesn't care about Japan, he cares about his vengeance.

[evil|plushie]

IMO, Lelouch doesn't really care about what happens when Britiannia falls. He may be expecting most countries to form their own gov't again but then again, I wonder how far he feels compelled to create a kinder world for nanali? If after Britiannia fell, if there was still one tyrannical govt, like the EU or maybe the China federation, or one of the new local govts, would he oppose it? Or maybe he's planning to keep britiannia alive and he becomes the new king?

[DragoonKain3]

As far as romance is concerned, it seems that there's an obvious push for Euphie X Suzaku, almost paralleling G-Seed as most people have mentioned. But did most people also forget that in the beginning it was Lacus and Athrun who was first shown together in that pose, only to be changed to Lacus and Kira at a later date? As such, I wouldn't be surprised if it was LuluXEuphie in the end, since that would come out of the blue just as KiraXLacus did for me in G-Seed.

In other words, I think it's still pretty open as to which ones will end up with whom. Still holding out for Milly X Lulu though, as I'm intrigued as to the reason why she turned down her omiai (the reason as to why is conveniently cut off in that episode). On top of that, Milly to me seems to be 'scouting' out the competition, starting with 'accidentally' hearing Shirley's secret about her crush on Lulu and now 'accidentally' knowing about Karen's secret when she visits her house. If she 'accidentally' discovers CC in the future, then something must be really up... XD

[evil|plushie]

Wouldn't Lulu and Euphie be incest since they are 1/2 brother and sister? So I find it highly unlikely it'll happen unless somehow, mysteriously, one of them turns out to not be related to the other.

And Milly ftw!!

[Darkeyesrina]

@ Vallen Chaos Valiant: m(_._)m

Wow you read my mind basically with respect of Lelouch. I think the same way for him as you do. Only exception is that I think Lelouch will try to keep Japan for himself to ensure Nanaly's and his allies's protection.
------

About the EEU and the Chinese Federation, I think that both of them are preparing an attack to Brittania.

The EEU is already making a frontal attack to Brittania. They might have discover something (a new weapon or a weakness) that actually gave them an idea that victory was possible. I don't see why else they could try to make an attack unless there was something important at stake.

If the gg's translation is right, it also means that the Chinese Federation might also have a direct relationship with the drugs business. It will sound logical since they will be both crumbling Brittania's workforce and getting money for weaponry.

I do wonder what would Lelouch do if the Chinese Federation actually try and attack Japan to "free" them from Brittania. Could he even join sides with Cornelia?

Finally, I am a big LelouchxMillay fan, but honestly I will love if he could take all the 4 and follow his dad's example (Millay to keep the nobles happy, Shirley to make middle class feel represented, Karen to keep face with Japan, and CC for the amazing body).

[Asianknight82]

Wait... What? how did the whole idea of Millay and Lelouch came up? I never saw a single ounce of hit towards the two, no one-sided feelings, nothing... crazy people.. @_@

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Asianknight82

Wait... What? how did the whole idea of Millay and Lelouch came up? I never saw a single ounce of hit towards the two, no one-sided feelings, nothing... crazy people.. @_@

Actually, i believe this is because Millay's family, the Ashfords, had been falling on hard times, and her parents are trying to marry her off to someone for political advantage. People want to pair up Millay and Lulu not for romantic reasons, but for convenience; Lulu, if he keeps going, may become the new Emperor, helping Millay's family. This made sense, because Ashford was the family that once supported Lelouch's mum politically before she was assassinated (hence falling on hard times). And now Lelouch is indebted to the Ashfords for sheltering him and his sister up to now.

Seriously, if Millay is going to be married to someone she doesn't love, isn't it better for that person to be her friend than a stranger? This is only for politics anyway. And no matter what happens, the Ashfords deserved some compensation for helping Lelouch even when they themselves aren't going so well.
Lulu could have more than one wife, and he can let Millay run her own life. It's unfortunate, but sometimes marriages don't need to be sacred to be important.

[ccardoso]

This episode was rather boring action wise, anyway it cleared more of Lelouch view of the Code Geass universe. He despises the nazi-like system of Britannia with all of his heart: after all that same system caused the death of his own mother and unenabled her sister to walk so that's pretty understandable, even considering the lame reaction of his father. In episode 8 Lelouch formed the Order of Black Knights and he decleared himself as an ally of evrey weak, being them Elvens, Britannians or whatever. In episode 9 there is a quite new element IMHO: he despises the weaks who relies on others to live on (Kalen's mother for example)... he has quite a unique view of the world which has the potential to absorbe/to destroy evrey other one, even because his final purpose isn't a mere liberation of Japan, but to destroy the Britannian royal family (to take that role for himself? ).
Suzaku is an hopeless dreamer: you can't change a nazi-like monarchy working within itself... sooner or later you will be branded as a betrayer. One time he survived (thanks to Lelouch), but will it be so even in the future?

For the future episodes I except Cornelia to last until around episode 15, then it will be the Clovis' clone showdown (the one who organized Lelouch's family's massacre most likely), who will last till episode 20 I guess... then the final big boss (the emperor) will come out. There is the unknown factor of the Geass girl (is she even human? ) that will play a big role, especially the one who is behind her I think: from the way she telepathically talked to his owner it seems that it was planned that she would give the Geass to Lelouch, so this unknown master wanted to help Lelouch in his revenge against the emperor. Is he someone who has a grudge against the emperor? It could be, given the tyrannical aspects of Britannia empire. But it could be someone who wishes to rule the world and is taking advantage of Lelouche's revenge: the manipulator is himself the most manipulated one, it's a classic in the anime world.
About the end? Uhm I think Lelouch will get his revenge on Britannia royal family, sending Cornelia, Clovis' clone and the emperor to afterlife to take company to Clovis. He won't rule the Britannia empire anyway: the new rulers will be Suzaku (an eleven) with Cornelia's sister (I don't remember her name). This because I think Lelouch will die after his revenge is completed.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

IMO, Lelouch doesn't really care about what happens when Britiannia falls. He may be expecting most countries to form their own gov't again but then again, I wonder how far he feels compelled to create a kinder world for nanali? If after Britiannia fell, if there was still one tyrannical govt, like the EU or maybe the China federation, or one of the new local govts, would he oppose it? Or maybe he's planning to keep britiannia alive and he becomes the new king?

Wait what? Where was it said that EU or China are tyrannical govts?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Majek

Wait what? Where was it said that EU or China are tyrannical govts?

It's a "what if", Majek. No need to over-react. He was suggesting that just because Britannia might be the present badguys, doesn't mean removing the Britannian Empire would make everything alright again. The EU or Asian Federation could have their own aspiring dictators, just waiting for the right moment to take over as the new world power.

Essentially, Lulu has two goals; to avenge his mother's death by crushing the Brittanian Empire, and to create a safer world for his sister. Evil plushie is merely saying that creating a safer world for his sister might take far more than just removing Britannian influences from Japan.

[Nightengale]

Realistically speaking, I think the only world Lelouch wants to specifically create is a world where Nunally and him can live in peace. Technically, despite the seemingly carefree life he lives, he's clearly bothered by the worry of how long can he maintain the facade (( especially since the Ashfords seems to be a little bit down the totem pole at the moment )), and even if he can live like that (( in minor seclusion/not standing out/etc )), he wouldn't want his sister to live like that. It can't be helped at the moment since Nunally is current blind and disabled, but he hopes her future will not be restricted. If they don't destroy the Britiannia family, the only things that they have going for them in the future is an eternal life hiding from them, being captured and used as some form of political tool, or sleeping with the fishes. On the contrary, if he destroys his entire family + any documental evidence of Lelouch/Nunally Vie Britiannia, then even if 1/3rd of the conquered Areas turn into legit hell-holes of power struggles, he could always run away to somewhere that's safe and live the rest of his life and Nunally's without fear of his bloodline.

Besides, Episode 9 kinda showed that Areas are really not much different from

Spoiler for Guyver:

the world post-Cronos conquer

. While the ghettos are horrible, the overall economy and life-style seems assured and improved and becoming honourary Britiannians seem especially easy with special rights not inclusive of anti-discrimination. The only problem can be issues of pride and discrimination from legit Elevens who calls HB's Britiannian dogs and legit-pure Britiannian's calling HB wannabes.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Finally done with episode 9. Frankly speaking, I find a kind of parallel with Refrain and Opium. Drugs made to make the indigenous people "happy and contented".

Karen's family history was all right, if a bit expected. At least we know why and how she's a half Britannian, half Eleven. One thing I'm interested in is how she believes Lelouch to actually be a decent man in the first place, and someone who would at least think differently from what he said to her and yet another subtle hint dropped about Lelouch's real identity for her to discover. I reckon it might be a few more episodes and Karen will start suspecting Lelouch again.

OoBK currently seem as though they are actually a group of "Batmen" working beyond the government's reach to put an end to criminal activity. While it probably seems as though they were doing the same things as the police did, what Lelouch said about the latter made sense: That there is always something holding them back. This is where I feel Suzaku is somewhat...naive in his thinking. What could the police have done? Send in negotiators while the terrorists continue killing people?

Quite a good episode, as always. The next one looks even better, throwing in the long awaited Guren Mark 2, Cornelia and her knights as well as more mecha action from others.

[demon_god04]

Well Theoretically, Suzaku's way of changing a system by working on the inside does seem a great idea. If you can gradually change the system then you can have more control and might be able to limit the number of people majorly affected by the shift, rather then forcefully tearing it down and rebuilding it from scratch.

But realistically it almost never works, to be in the system you have to work with the system. Unless you are at the very top, there will always be someone above you and they will be the ones giving the orders. If those in power are corrupt then they will do all they can to retain the status quo, if you show that you are unable to abide by their system then you will be gone. And even if you are be able to change it, no organization is infallible, because it is made up of humans, and humans are not infallible. We give into greed, corruption and pride all too easily, and not everyone can rise above that human nature.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Well Theoretically, Suzaku's way of changing a system by working on the inside does seem a great idea. If you can gradually change the system then you can have more control and might be able to limit the number of people majorly affected by the shift, rather then forcefully tearing it down and rebuilding it from scratch.

But realistically it almost never works, to be in the system you have to work with the system. Unless you are at the very top, there will always be someone above you and they will be the ones giving the orders. If those in power are corrupt then they will do all they can to retain the status quo, if you show that you are unable to abide by their system then you will be gone. And even if you are be able to change it, no organization is infallible, because it is made up of humans, and humans are not infallible. We give into greed, corruption and pride all too easily, and not everyone can rise above that human nature.

Well a corrupt system is unavoidable in our world yes, so by destroying and old one and creating a new one is just a temporary change, soon it all falls back into the old way or gets even worse for the little people. So eitherway both Lulu and Suzaku are screwed because ultimately they will fail.

[npal]

All empires fall eventually anyway, that doesn't mean one shouldn't try to establish a better one. There are ways to prevent corruption, but they are kinda harsh and are bound to falter with the original leader's death.

When you establish a new system, you either give positions of power to people who were loyal and helped you along the way or you count on them to serve to the best of their abilities, or you can just concentrate all the power on your person. Of course, both of these methods tend to fail eventually, one way or another, but it's always good to try. Of course, you can just plan assassinations for people you fear will disrupt your work, effective enough if you ask me. Anyway, no matter what, sacrifices will have to be made eventually.

And be sure to change the education system along the way.

[Skyfall]

Besides Lulu doesn't care much for Japan or the Britania either way. By eliminating the royal family he gets his revenge and creates a safer future for her sister(no need to live in hiding from the family). He is not out to create an utopia for every one - the saint is being played by Suzaku, not Lulu.

[npal]

Politics don't require saints. The best you can find is a idealist with a good plan. If you're a saint, you aren't fit to rule in this world. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made, and someone like Suzaku doesn't have what it takes to lead, which is a certain amount of ruthlessness. Even one who wants to create a sort of utopia will have to be ruthless to those who oppose that goal for whatever reason. If you're lukewarm about what you wish to accomplish and give in to everyone's demands, you aren't fit to rule. And you can't compromise certain things. Lulu seems to know that. The best thing Suzaku could hope for is a martyr's death, for he's not going anywhere with that mentality of his.

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I though I had mentioned in the past that Lelouch had no intention of performing terrorism?

[Skipped Middle]

Essentially, what Lelouch is doing is fully achevable; the only issue is the number of innocent lives that would be lost by the time the dust settles (Which Lelouch doesn't give a damn about).

As for Suzaku? Ironically, his method is the exact opposite of a terrorist, but the mentality is actually identical. Suzaku doesn't believe a military victory is achievable either, and as such submitted to doing everything the slow way. Suzaku gave himself the goal of changing Britannia, even though he might very well know he wouldn't live long enough to even detect the changes.
Like a terrorist, Suzaku just wanted to feel like he is doing something for his goals, but without caring if what he does actually works or not. Essentially, he took the easy way out.

Very well laid out.

Good episode to give us plenty to discuss each character with, I'll still have to wait and see more of everyone though. Let's see... so Nina likes Euphemia, right.

Euphemia probably will like Suzaku, from how he's on her mind all the time when she thinks of stuff: "And you, what do you think of me, Kururugi Suzaku?" (Yuffie - Suzaku +5)

Millay is a cool customer and an example of a pure blooded Aristocrat without any prejudices; how many others could have handled that extremely uncomfortable situation at the Stadtfelds as deftly as she did? Dishes out some good advice in the process. (Millay +10)

Looked as though Shirley was going to start liking Suzaku, still looks that way too, for everytime Leulouch shoots her down the alternative looks better. (Lulu-Shirley -15)

Now, the pivotal hot dog incident, and whether Kallen was correct in judging Lulu's words and that he's indeed a pompous jerk:

Should note that despite all that he said, Lulu did end up using Geass to save that Japanese vendor. Sure, it was get himself out of a bothersome situation, but it wasn't as though the thugs posed a threat. Pity, perhaps, who knows.

Kallen slapped him when Lulu's talk accidentally hit one of her buttons; the views he recited are exactly along the lines of British colonizers (like something his pops would've said), which makes the possibility of them being his own view unlikely. Uncharacteristic, one might say, but not uncharacteristic if he said that to get a rise out of Kallen and, as others said, feel her out. Seems like he got what he wanted too; from the lack of surprise to her reaction and the smile afterwards.

Why was Lulu's voice full of emotion when he saw and heard Kallen's mother? Sympathy, pity, anger, all of the above perhaps, and how would this affect the way he views Kallen? Not sure, but it'll be interesting to find out.

Overall Kallen-Lulu effects? +5 to +10 I'd say, by Lulu gaining better a understanding of Kallen through talk and her mother and a closer alignment of goals.

ETC:
Lulu's sleeping skills: Lulu +5
Millay's cat party and roping Lulu down on a chair: Millay +5
Jeremiah and Valet drink at a bar: +10 for that couple.

Edit:

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Still holding out for Milly X Lulu though... XD

Yes! Millay-Lulu fans! We must keep our hopes up! For the president and vice-president, the two most mature characters in their age group of this show.