NFL and College Football (American Football) Thread

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Teh_Ping

Someone check with me on this, but wasn't DeSean playing with an injured foot?

I'm not sure if it was his foot, but he did tweak something in his leg earlier in the game that had him limping a bit.

[Highman]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki

I'm not sure if it was his foot, but he did tweak something in his leg earlier in the game that had him limping a bit.

He did play with an injured foot was questionable before NYG-PHI game.

[Demongod86]

Bleh...Eagles D really is an issue. So is their O-line. If it was anybody but Vick behind center (Brady and Manning included), we'd long be toast.

Even with Asante Samuel back, though, we're still getting burned on the other side of the field. Dimitri Patterson needs to step up his game and FAST because even against Kitna, the Cowboys nearly pulled it off, and if Favre plays one of his two last hurrahs at the Linc, we don't want to be caught sleeping with the Bears owning the tie-breaker for the second seed. Not to mention that all three possible wild cards (Saints, Giants, Packers) are all VERY strong teams, so a first-round bye would be fantastic at this point.

Damned Bears...go Jets and Packers. I'm not sure if Stuart Bradley can get back to us in the playoffs (I believe he was out for the rest of the regular season...but if we can get him back in the playoffs, that's better than nothing) but the defense is starting to come apart on injuries.

Honestly, it seems that the Eagles and Patriots are sort of parallel to each other, being completely reliant on offense to make up for garbage defense. The difference though is that the Patriots are far more consistent as a teamy-teamy-team as WD likes to put it, while the Eagles are feast or famine (which has worked out well thus far except vs. Da Bears)

I'm wondering how soon the O-line will get their act together since it's tough to establish the run here, and Vick has to wing it so much. Honestly, if it wasn't for the RB and QB in one guy, we'd be sunk and that's a fact.

[Dilla]

Tonight's game is going to be nasty. 5-8 inches of snow expected with a field that is 'as hard as concrete' as of yesterday. I hope they've been able to defrost the turf enough to make it safe.

[Prodigy]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Bleh...Eagles D really is an issue. So is their O-line. If it was anybody but Vick behind center (Brady and Manning included), we'd long be toast.

I'm wondering how soon the O-line will get their act together since it's tough to establish the run here, and Vick has to wing it so much. Honestly, if it wasn't for the RB and QB in one guy, we'd be sunk and that's a fact.

To me it felt like Vick was holding back from running the past couple of games(not counting last game). When he finally lets loose, the guy is nearly unstoppable. The Gmen blitzed from every angle and the dude still managed to brake for big runs. Whoever said Vick and Brady for Co-Mvps, I second that.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Prodigy

To me it felt like Vick was holding back from running the past couple of games(not counting last game). When he finally lets loose, the guy is nearly unstoppable. The Gmen blitzed from every angle and the dude still managed to brake for big runs. Whoever said Vick and Brady for Co-Mvps, I second that.

Honestly though, I'd like to see Brady pull the kinds of shenanigans that Vick does. Because right now, the Patriots are by far the overall better team. I think if you put Vick behind Brady's O-line, I don't care how bad that defense, it'd be 2007 all over again .

All props to Brady for keeping that machine running, but IMO on an individual effort, Vick's got Brady TORCHED.

Is Brady effective? Hell yes. Is it fun to watch the Pats just consistently steamroll people one way or another? Yup.

But IMO when it comes to utter LIGHTS OUT performances, Vick's got his number.

Though what I wonder is...why the hell don't they include rushing in QB ratings =/...Vick might have 20 TDs throwing, but he's got 8 on the ground, and those aren't statistically reflected in the QB metrics =[.

Maybe because only Mike Vick can do what Mike Vick does

[Hell_ping]

Hey, Mike Vick isn't a QB, he's Mike Vick, a position on his own...

Okay, maybe Cunningham and old McNabb can be classified under there, but not with the passing stats.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Honestly though, I'd like to see Brady pull the kinds of shenanigans that Vick does. Because right now, the Patriots are by far the overall better team. I think if you put Vick behind Brady's O-line, I don't care how bad that defense, it'd be 2007 all over again .

All props to Brady for keeping that machine running, but IMO on an individual effort, Vick's got Brady TORCHED.

Is Brady effective? Hell yes. Is it fun to watch the Pats just consistently steamroll people one way or another? Yup.

But IMO when it comes to utter LIGHTS OUT performances, Vick's got his number.

Though what I wonder is...why the hell don't they include rushing in QB ratings =/...Vick might have 20 TDs throwing, but he's got 8 on the ground, and those aren't statistically reflected in the QB metrics =[.

Maybe because only Mike Vick can do what Mike Vick does

Vick is a more athletic QB than Brady. But I'd say your assessment is completely wrong. Brady is a completely different type of QB, known for calmness under pressure and clutch play in the postseason. Brady is an equal or better passer, with no real running talent, desire, or need to scramble and run like Vick does. That's why Brady fits well in New England, and why he has won 3 superbowls. Brady is a perfectionist, and the perfect mental counterpart to Belichick. No other QB could know that playbook to such an extent. Vick couldn't match that success (especially Brady's mental cunning), despite his amazing athletic abilities he has his role and Brady has another. They are not interchangeable. There is no way in hell Vick replicates 07, though I'm sure it would still have been an amazing season with him at the helm. I'll take the proven winner any day of the week though.

Also the Patriots' o-line is awesome but they aren't freaking miracle workers like everyone makes them out to be in these hypothetical discussions... Teams have been able to rush Brady, hell the Packers just did it on Sunday. There have also been injuries to the line this year.

[Dilla]

Aaron Rodgers has passed all concussion-related tests and has been cleared.

It's on in Lambeau on Sunday for control of the final playoff spot.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Vick is a more athletic QB than Brady. But I'd say your assessment is completely wrong. Brady is a completely different type of QB, known for calmness under pressure and clutch play in the postseason. Brady is an equal or better passer, with no real running talent, desire, or need to scramble and run like Vick does. That's why Brady fits well in New England, and why he has won 3 superbowls. Brady is a perfectionist, and the perfect mental counterpart to Belichick. No other QB could know that playbook to such an extent. Vick couldn't match that success (especially Brady's mental cunning), despite his amazing athletic abilities he has his role and Brady has another. They are not interchangeable. There is no way in hell Vick replicates 07, though I'm sure it would still have been an amazing season with him at the helm. I'll take the proven winner any day of the week though.

Sometimes I think you forget (which is odd) that New England's Defense was also on the field in all 3 of those Super Bowls (Carolina arguably outplayed NE's D in the 2nd one)...Brady only got the clinching TD once in the Philly SB, but the other times they were forced to kick the Vinateri FG because Tom Brady didn't get the first down or TD to end the game...Just saying...He's got 3 rings, but it was teamy-teamy team for the most part...

No other QB could know that playbook to such an extent.

Now let's put down the Sam Adams on this one...Brady passes 5-10 yard passes 90% of every game minus the 2007 Moss season (The other 10% all Moss subsequent seasons)...He knows the playbook if every play is a 5 yard hitch, slant, or out, I'll give him that...And he's by far the best at the dink-dunk passing game the game ever seen (For all the $hit NE WR's have gotten over the years I bet their YAC-yards are off the chart after breaking the initial tackle on those short-passes)...But to think no one could do what he does given the system they employ in New England is a bit much...Matt Cassel perhaps?

Let's give Mike Vick max-protection almost the entire game, hell let's give Drew Brees max-protection like Brady, he might have 6,000 yards and 80% completion rate...


It's not what he does it's just he does what he does better than anyone who has ever done it (And that's play the small ball game)...Coaches like Andy Reid and Sean Payton are offensive innovators that employ high risk-reward offensive systems that are as viscerally enjoyable to watch as it is successful (Although BB has most of the rings)...Other than the 2007 season when Moss was catching everything but SARS^^, NE (IMO) hasn't really employed an offensive style that's been anything but military in it's application (Like the Spurs, just boring but effective)...So I think it would be far more ridiculous for Tom Brady to play in Philly's system or the Saints system than the other way around, even in 2007...

Yes, I shoehorned the Saints in there^^...

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Dilla

Aaron Rodgers has passed all concussion-related tests and has been cleared.

It's on in Lambeau on Sunday for control of the final playoff spot.

Going to be interesting to see if Rodgers can play the full game with how strong the G-Men's pass rush is.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Sometimes I think you forget (which is odd) that New England's Defense was also on the field in all 3 of those Super Bowls (Carolina arguably outplayed NE's D in the 2nd one)...Brady only got the clinching TD once in the Philly SB, but the other times they were forced to kick the Vinateri FG because Tom Brady didn't get the first down or TD to end the game...Just saying...He's got 3 rings, but it was teamy-teamy team for the most part...

Oh so they just gave him 2 of those super bowl MVPs for show, right? No denying the d and Adam were key points to those winning... but there also isn't any denying the key role Brady had.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Now let's put down the Sam Adams on this one...Brady passes 5-10 yard passes 90% of every game minus the 2007 Moss season (The other 10% all Moss subsequent seasons)...He knows the playbook if every play is a 5 yard hitch, slant, or out, I'll give him that...And he's by far the best at the dink-dunk passing game the game ever seen (For all the $hit NE WR's have gotten over the years I bet their YAC-yards are off the chart after breaking the initial tackle on those short-passes)...But to think no one could do what he does given the system they employ in New England is a bit much...Matt Cassel perhaps?

He knows every play inside and out... he's a perfectionist. That's what separates him from other QB's in the league. And if you really keep babbling this nonsense about how he can only throw short I'm breaking out the youtube videos to make you look like a doofus.

Look man it's pretty simple... Bledsoe was an amazing QB, one of the best all-time statistically, and he couldn't win a super bowl here... Brady went on to win three without many personnel changes (until 03-04-05 years)..

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Let's give Mike Vick max-protection almost the entire game, hell let's give Drew Brees max-protection like Brady, he might have 6,000 yards and 80% completion rate...

What, in our offense? You contradict yourself all in the same post.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

It's not what he does it's just he does what he does better than anyone who has ever done it (And that's play the small ball game)...Coaches like Andy Reid and Sean Payton are offensive innovators that employ high risk-reward offensive systems that are as viscerally enjoyable to watch as it is successful (Although BB has most of the rings)...Other than the 2007 season when Moss was catching everything but SARS^^, NE (IMO) hasn't really employed an offensive style that's been anything but military in it's application (Like the Spurs, just boring but effective)...So I think it would be far more ridiculous for Tom Brady to play in Philly's system or the Saints system than the other way around, even in 2007...

Yes, I shoehorned the Saints in there^^...

I agree Brady wouldn't fit as well in those systems. My point was (which you've somehow completely turned around, maybe you're the one that needs to lay off the booze? ) other QBs wouldn't fit here as well as Brady. There's an aspect of the 'military' offense you're overlooking that Brady is perfect at... He's a perfectionist, with a very simple play style... He does what he needs to do, and learns the playbook better than anyone else on the team.

Anyways the Patriots have a methodical style that wins games and plenty of people still find it very entertaining... Defensively inclined teams might be boring in basketball but I don't think it applies to football. Basketball is the realm of superstars, football is still a team game first and foremost...

[wingdarkness]

- 2007 season which was visually awesome offense, you think the Patriots play an entertaining style of football, viscerally that is? Watching Brady throw 3 yard outs to motioning TE's that entertaining?

What I was saying about Brees is that you could put him in NE offense, you could max-protect him and he'd probably put up better numbers than Brady since he'd have minimal pressure...Brees personally wants to challenge the defense down field, he'd be so restricted in that offense...

Look Brady's great no doubt about it...Hearing Chris Collinsworth fawn over his throwing style is comatosing but it's true...He doesn't have much physical talent so he supplants that with uber technique...I don't know WTF he did to get his arm stronger since it was pea-shooter his first few years (Perhaps it has something to do with the Steroid story about him the media never investigated thoroughly), but I accept his greatness...I just find his greatness annoying in the sense he does it so methodically and without that naturalistic zest that makes players like Vick, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, fun to watch...

Big Ben powering thru defenders zipping passes is fun to watch...Brees running around like Rapheal Nadal throwing passes from crazy angles is fun to watch...Vick, period, is perhaps the funnest player in history to watch...Brady is just annoying LMAO, nicklin' and diming you all effin' game...It's exasperating really, but give him the crown...

Oh, and aslong as you have an above average game the winning QB will always get the MVP in the SB, Peyton Manning SB vs. The bears is perfect example of just getting it because your the QB...

[ChainLegacy]

In terms of how fun things are... it's all opinion really, but yeah this season is the most fun for me in a long time (yes even more than 07)... First of all not every pass is short as you keep saying, but that doesn't matter really... even when the passes are short we have a great receiver corps that is exciting to watch cuz of the yards after the catch. The running backs are all unknown underdogs, both Woodhead and Green-Ellis went undrafted... Stuff like that, I find to be entertaining, especially when the team wins. No doubt Vick is freaking intense to watch but he entertains his way... The Patriots do it another way.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Well I can say that I've always enjoyed the Patriots (and the Spurs). I guess I just like watching a well oiled machine work. Strategic and well imployed plays can be just exciting for me to watch as something flashy.

[Dilla]

There was very little 'well oiled' about the Spurs back in their hay-day. It was just ugly.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

- 2007 season which was visually awesome offense, you think the Patriots play an entertaining style of football, viscerally that is? Watching Brady throw 3 yard outs to motioning TE's that entertaining?

What I was saying about Brees is that you could put him in NE offense, you could max-protect him and he'd probably put up better numbers than Brady since he'd have minimal pressure...Brees personally wants to challenge the defense down field, he'd be so restricted in that offense...

Look Brady's great no doubt about it...Hearing Chris Collinsworth fawn over his throwing style is comatosing but it's true...He doesn't have much physical talent so he supplants that with uber technique...I don't know WTF he did to get his arm stronger since it was pea-shooter his first few years (Perhaps it has something to do with the Steroid story about him the media never investigated thoroughly), but I accept his greatness...I just find his greatness annoying in the sense he does it so methodically and without that naturalistic zest that makes players like Vick, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, fun to watch...

Big Ben powering thru defenders zipping passes is fun to watch...Brees running around like Rapheal Nadal throwing passes from crazy angles is fun to watch...Vick, period, is perhaps the funnest player in history to watch...Brady is just annoying LMAO, nicklin' and diming you all effin' game...It's exasperating really, but give him the crown...

Oh, and aslong as you have an above average game the winning QB will always get the MVP in the SB, Peyton Manning SB vs. The bears is perfect example of just getting it because your the QB...

The only time the Patriots had a true down the field receiver was with Moss. That's not the kind of receivers they have, and especially now where they're all under 6' tall. Hell most of them are my height.

[Elo the Blue]

Originally Posted by Dilla

There was very little 'well oiled' about the Spurs back in their hay-day. It was just ugly.

Agreed. Watching Duncan back people down and finish with either hand or Parker drive to the line and score with that running floater got old quick.

Anyone watching the MAACO bowl?

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

Agreed. Watching Duncan back people down and finish with either hand or Parker drive to the line and score with that running floater got old quick.

Anyone watching the MAACO bowl?

I refuse to watch anything involving Boise State.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

Agreed. Watching Duncan back people down and finish with either hand or Parker drive to the line and score with that running floater got old quick.

I would get tooth abscess oral-surgery over faithfully watching the Spurs or being a Spurs fan (How you mofos do it I'll never know)...I'm not that bad with the Patriots as I love to watch Patriot Games with the hopes of them losing^^...Just the execution of the offense makes me constipated at times...If BB gave the "O" a sprinkle of the creativity he used to give the "D" I could cheer it on a bit...Maybe they'll rehire McDaniels, BB seemed to actually treat him like his prized pet, unlike Mangenius...

Anyone watching the MAACO bowl?

Brotzman made a FG, so maybe he won't hang himself now even-though he botched a trick play earlier in the game...As usual the effects of a 3-4 week layoff has affected the flow for both teams...Boise would be tanking these guys if it wasn't for that...

The National Championship game is only 3 months away, hopefully Cam Newton doesn't have an agent by kickoff...But seriously the whole first half is gonna be a feel-session because of the absurd, ridiculous layoff...