Bakemonogatari - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[rocket]

Originally Posted by Velsy

For the fight seen. I dont mind lots of blood in anime. Bones braking I can deal with but still cringe a little. but when it goes *past that* thats when I start to hate it and find it very hard to watch.

I'm past the age where I find 'gore porn' fascinating or even very tolerable. In this case I was pleased and surprised. Shinbou found a way to show the extreme nature of the damage Arargi soaked up in a style that was so 'pop-art' that I could not only just tolerate it, but also enjoy the balletic grace of the fight itself.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

As you asked, what kind of parents would deliberately leave something so dangerous to their daughter? Once again, it makes me wonder what Senjougahara really meant about Kanbaru's household. Had she been abused by her parents? The anime doesn't explain, nor does it give any clues.

I see your point, though I'm not sure we have the cultural context to figure it out. I suspect some kind of pun and wordplay on Kanbaru's homosexual attraction or a pun on the very concepts of physical or psychological deformity. Perhaps even a pun on someone being outside of social norms.

Let's see, I seem to recall some slang for consumers of yuri manga being something like "broken woman"...

--10 minutes with Google and Wikipedia later (curse you internets, keep your flying cars, where are my intelligent information space agents??!!)--

Here we go, 'fujoshi' - rotten girl. Sounds like a physical deformity to me. No doubt there's a tradition in Japanese culture (like all others) about physical forms somehow reflecting internal spiritual or social qualities, so this plays both ways.

Now all we need is a culturally meaningful link between deformity / inhumanity and monkeys / rain.

As for Kanbaru's household I think there are a few clues. Much more than Senjougahara, she's clearly the 'rich girl'. Large traditional estate. Servant in traditional dress. Typical spoiled rich girl neglect? Abuse by lack of love leads to 'unatural love'? She is presented as a mirror/compliment to Senjougahara in so many visual ways, so perhaps she is intended to complement her in an emotional damage way as well? Not physically betrayed and abandoned by parents, but neglected isolated and abandoned...

...

You know I don't care much for the new OP music, but the visual are stunning. Did anybody else find it very Utena-esque?

[Qilin]

I'm surprised that I actually liked this episode.

I was even thinking of dropping this series if this episode sucked. I was slowly getting fed up with all the really long dialogues since the Mayoi Snail arc. Well, this episode quickly renewed the feeling of excitement and anticipation I had back during the Hitagi Crab arc.

I just loved Senjougahara's timely entrance in the end. I just had to applaud Oshino for his clever scheme. Also, I never knew that blood could be shown in so many colors... almost like a rainbow.

Anyway, this episode just made me curious as to Araragi's story, and his connection with Shinobu. They keep mentioning it without revealing anything substantial...

[Miyuki-ism]

But the thing is, doesn't this series manly concentrate around the conversations the characters have between each other? That's actually a big reason why I like it.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

That is correct. That had to hurt, being swung around by your intestines. It would have been a much gorier scene if they didn't use bright neon colors for his blood is a few scenes.

I don't mind blood and guts in my anime, and in this particular case, I found the use of different colors to be quite interesting and even artistic in a way.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Qilin

I'm surprised that I actually liked this episode.

I was even thinking of dropping this series if this episode sucked. I was slowly getting fed up with all the really long dialogues since the Mayoi Snail arc. Well, this episode quickly renewed the feeling of excitement and anticipation I had back during the Hitagi Crab arc.

I just loved Senjougahara's timely entrance in the end. I just had to applaud Oshino for his clever scheme. Also, I never knew that blood could be shown in so many colors... almost like a rainbow.

Anyway, this episode just made me curious as to Araragi's story, and his connection with Shinobu. They keep mentioning it without revealing anything substantial...

I think most people here enjoy this series because of those dialogues. If you don't like them then I guess you can't like this series also. If you expect it to have more fighting scene and less talk then I guess you will definitely disappoint.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I think most people here enjoy this series because of those dialogues. If you don't like them then I guess you can't like this series also. If you expect it to have more fighting scene and less talk then I guess you will definitely disappoint.

But one of the good points is that when there is action, its awesome.

[Vexx]

Brilliant logical trap to defeat the devil.... I was just assuming Araragi would eventually be in tiny little pieces and still not dead (put him in a bucket for a week to regen).

Again, priceless dialog and fearless Hitagi. She must just assume he'd not dare die on her no matter how mashed up he is

One minor line and I find myself wondering what the heck Shinobu does when unleashed ("blade").

Okay, caught up. Only complaint about this episode was that it seemed like only 10 minutes

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Ah yes, Oshino Meme, the man who interprets oddities and gives them meaning that eludes all others. He's definitely an enigma of his own, and a potentially dangerous one too. His theme music describes his personality very well, I feel.

I keep hearing a piano ditty in expository parts of the series that sounds remarkably like the opening sequence of "Tubular Bells" (a 2hr opus used to score much of "The Exorcist"). Very choice....

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I think most people here enjoy this series because of those dialogues. If you don't like them then I guess you can't like this series also. If you expect it to have more fighting scene and less talk then I guess you will definitely disappoint.

You misunderstood me. It's not that I dislike the long dialogues. It's just that watching 6 episodes straight of it, with nothing else, can get pretty tiring. Also, it's not really the action I'm after either. What I'm really looking forward to is the in the climax at the end of each arc, particularly the twist found in it. For some reason, I just couldn't get myself to feel interested over the twist in Mayoi Snail, probably due to either my dislike for Mayoi or the fact that the twist was normal.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Qilin

You misunderstood me. It's not that I dislike the long dialogues. It's just that watching 6 episodes straight of it, with nothing else, can get pretty tiring. Also, it's not really the action I'm after either. What I'm really looking forward to is the in the climax at the end of each arc, particularly the twist found in it. For some reason, I just couldn't get myself to feel interested over the twist in Mayoi Snail, probably due to either my dislike for Mayoi or the fact that the twist was normal.

But I think the climax of Mayoi arc wasn't the twist about Mayoi being a ghost. It was the confession, actually.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by Qilin

You misunderstood me. It's not that I dislike the long dialogues. It's just that watching 6 episodes straight of it, with nothing else, can get pretty tiring. Also, it's not really the action I'm after either. What I'm really looking forward to is the in the climax at the end of each arc, particularly the twist found in it. For some reason, I just couldn't get myself to feel interested over the twist in Mayoi Snail, probably due to either my dislike for Mayoi or the fact that the twist was normal.

Hmmm... I did think the first episode in Mayoi/Snail was frustratingly slow to build, but in retrospect it totally made the real twist (Senjougahara's confession) payoff for me. Of course I was delighted with Hachikuji as soon as it became clear that she wouldn't be a token loli.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

But I think the climax of Mayoi arc wasn't the twist about Mayoi being a ghost. It was the confession, actually.

When you put it that way, I guess the arc really was rewarding, but it didn't really strike me as a surprise since I already saw it coming (due to Wikipedia spoilers).

Looking back on it, I think it's more accurate to say that I was trudging through the entire Mayoi Snail arc just so I could see that confession.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by qilin

looking back on it, i think it's more accurate to say that i was trudging through the entire mayoi snail arc just so i could see that confession.

bingo !!!!!!

[Intranetusa]

I think shows such as Spice and Wolf has much better dialogue. Bakemonogatari's dialogue is kinda superficial (mainly jabs and Seno throwing playful insults at Aragi).

I'm watching it mainly because of the unique plot and for the interesting characters.

[zzeroparticle]

A graphic fight scene that was done tastefully.

Hitagi coming through in a way that you can't help but be impressed with her poise.

Ooshino being able to see past the smoke and mirrors and drive at the whole nonsense.

All of those elements are a constant reminder why this series has stuck as the series I look forward to seeing week in week out. It's not just the characters or dialogue like what people have pointed out to. The thing that sticks this show on a different plane altogether is that it delivers an engaging experience the whole way through and the execution offers a good amount of flair and creativity. I'm not quite a fan of Araragi, but everyone else is top-notch.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

I think shows such as Spice and Wolf has much better dialogue. Bakemonogatari's dialogue is kinda superficial (mainly jabs and Seno throwing playful insults at Aragi). I'm watching it mainly because of the unique plot and for the interesting characters.

I know what you mean, but somehow I feel depth of some kind in the dialog here more than I do in Spicy Wolf. Serious does not equal deep, and comic does not equal shallow. But as someone who has found Shinbou rather shallow in the past, I will keep your thought in mind. The characters, art, and rhythms of the show are the main thing for me, but some of the lines (and their delivery by Saitou Chiwa, to be specific) are amazing.

All of those things were present in Mayoi Snail, so I didn't feel disappointed in it at all. Equal to the other arcs, for me. I think Katou Emiri does a great job with snail-girl's slight bit of Konata-esque lisp, too.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I know what you mean, but somehow I feel depth of some kind in the dialog here more than I do in Spicy Wolf. Serious does not equal deep, and comic does not equal shallow. But as someone who has found Shinbou rather shallow in the past, I will keep your thought in mind. The characters, art, and rhythms of the show are the main thing for me, but some of the lines (and their delivery by Saitou Chiwa, to be specific) are amazing.

All of those things were present in Mayoi Snail, so I didn't feel disappointed in it at all. Equal to the other arcs, for me. I think Katou Emiri does a great job with snail-girl's slight bit of Konata-esque lisp, too.

The business dealings and flirtation in Spicy Wolf is mature and expects the viewer to catch subtlety in their dialog. OTOH, I find the verbal flirting, jousting, and sparring in Bakemonogatari much more "Shakespearean" in terms of the sort of wordplay and clever witty verbal dancing it has.

I don't really think its necessary to say one is better than the other ... its kind of like trying to rate a Noel Coward play versus a Marx Brothers classic -- they're both pretty witty and entertaining. I choose both.

And yes, the voice acting in both has been superb.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The business dealings and flirtation in Spicy Wolf is mature and expects the viewer to catch subtlety in their dialog. OTOH, I find the verbal flirting, jousting, and sparring in Bakemonogatari much more "Shakespearean" in terms of the sort of wordplay and clever witty verbal dancing it has.

I don't really think its necessary to say one is better than the other ... its kind of like trying to rate a Noel Coward play versus a Marx Brothers classic -- they're both pretty witty and entertaining. I choose both.

And yes, the voice acting in both has been superb.

My personal dislike for Horo aside, I wholeheartedly agree with the above sentiments.

The style of dialogue between the two couples is very different, as is the dynamic running between the two pairs of lead characters. Unlike Araragi, Lawrence is more assertive and less likely to give in to Horo's jibes without putting up some kind of resistance. And, despite her occasional sarcasm, Horo is no match for Senjougahara in terms of spite.

Also, despite her often overinflated pride, Horo frequently suffers crises of confidence, unlike Senjougahara, whose self-confidence matches her huge ego. This differing aspect of their personalities goes a long way towards determining the kind of verbal barbs you'd expect from either one of them.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

But I think the climax of Mayoi arc wasn't the twist about Mayoi being a ghost. It was the confession, actually.

I actually thought the fact that she was haunting Araragi was the most shocking. The whole time you thought Mayoi was the one who needed help, meanwhile it was Araragi. The confession was definitely good though.

[Viridian]

I really liked the idea of "two sides of a wish".

One thing I'm slightly puzzled about: was there another significance to Senjougahara promising in front of the devil to kill Kanbaru (if Kanbaru killed Araragi) apart from both sides of the wish being unable to coexist? There seemed to be the implication that the devil was also backed down out of self-preservation, though I wouldn't have thought that killing Kanbaru would kill the devil...