2008-06-07, 12:07 | Link #201 |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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So pretty much we're all on the same page here. The problem will be what kinds of tags and how many are predefined. As long as we can request a tag that's not on the pre-defined list, I'm 100% okay with using a pre-defined list. It'll be the same as posting in a restricted forum in a pre-created thread and suggesting opening a new thread to a moderator.
Speaking of which, do we really need a "yes we can" tag in the US Election 2008 thread? I'm not sure why the "grandpa" tag is there also.
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2008-06-07, 14:21 | Link #202 | |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2008-06-07, 21:28 | Link #203 | |
Kira_Naruto, the ecchi
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: http://www.exciting-tits.com/
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2008-06-07, 21:35 | Link #204 | |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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2008-06-07, 21:36 | Link #205 |
Kira_Naruto, the ecchi
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: http://www.exciting-tits.com/
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To be honest, I dont think that thread need any of them
I just feel redundant tags like manga, or images for images threads or one time use like -099 are really .. well.. redundant
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2008-06-07, 22:54 | Link #207 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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By the way, for those who thought my last reply was "tl;dr", I should have just posted this version. It has bullets rather than walls of text. I don't think there's been a formal agreement by the staff yet, but this is my understanding:
* One proposed alternative is that tag creation remain open but the Tag Team has sole discretion to remove any and all bad tags, and that bad tagging would be infractable. So anybody could tag whatever they want, but they'd need to follow the Tag Team's guidelines of what's acceptable. There are merits and demerits to each approach, but I guess I'll just throw it out there. Quote:
This post still sort of looks like walls of text... sorry... it really isn't that bad! |
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2008-06-08, 04:23 | Link #208 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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@relentlessflame - Your words suggest that the moderators are leaning more towards categorization than description with regards to tag usage, am I correct in this understanding or are the moderators still deciding on that matter?
Also, in regards to the outline of the tag team proposal - I'd be willing to rework the outline I posted earlier here into something a little more reflective of the changes in this discussion, depending on what the staff decides they want the focus of tags to be. I would also be willing to throw together a general FAQ once things are ironed out.
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2008-06-08, 11:35 | Link #209 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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For the sake of concreteness, here's the category list from anidb with a few comments.
Two introductory remarks. 1. The tags below are meant to be useful in the Anime Discussion subforums only. Maybe also in the Suggestions subforum with a few additions like air date tags (70s, 80s, 90s, 'noughties') or length tags (short, one season, two seasons, three or more seasons). Other subforums need other tags and for something like General Talk it's probably impossible to come up with something structured. 2. Apart for the categories as defined below there would be tags for studios and persons. Can you think of a fourth type of tags that would be useful? So now to the category tags. First, there would be ... Audience tags: Josei, Kodomo, Mina, Seinen, Shoujo, Shounen Now here's already the first problem. How much Japanese do we want? Who will be using the tag system? Noobs or certified otaku? I don't think everybody understands what 'Mina' means. Content tags: Nudity, Sex, Violence We have no hentai anime here but these tags are useful nevertheless. Mnemosyne fits all of the above for example. Dynamic tags: Plot Continuity, Stereotypes,Twisted I don't really understand this set. Looks like three terms thrown together. Are there anime without stereotypes? And 'twisted' referred to both Kaiba and Monster. But reading 'Plot Continuity' I think Plot driven, Episodic and Slice-of-Lify might be useful tags. Instead of following the alphabetic order I skip to: Fetish tags: Bishounen, Breasts (1), Female Students(2), Female Teachers, Housewives(3), Juujin(4), Lolicon, Maids, Nuns(5), Nurses, Office Lady, Shotacon, Tentacles, Traps, Waitresses(6) (1) Subcategories: Gigantic Breasts, Large Breasts, Small Breasts. Do we really need that? (2) Too common to be useful. Swimsuits, bloomers maybe. (3) LOL. I don't know many anime serving a housewife fetish. (4) Subcategory: Cat Girls. 'juujin' is again something few people will understand. (5) What about Miko? (6) Fusion with maids? Original Work tags: Game (sub: Action Game, Dating Sim - Visual Novel, Erotic Game, RPG), Manga, Movie(1), New, Novel(2) All tags could need a "from .." in front for clarification. (1) Replace by "Live action' maybe? (2) Add subcategory 'Light Novel' maybe? Setting tags (place and time): Earth (sub: Americas, Asia, Europe, Middle East)(1), Fantasy World (sub: Dystopia, Parallel Universe, Virtual Reality), Space (sub: Other Planet, Shipboard), Future (sub: Post-apocalyptic), Past (sub: Alternative History, Historical)(2), Present (sub: Alternative(3)) (1) I skipped the subsub categories (countries). (2) Here too (epochs). (3) Fusion with Fantasy World: Parallel Universe? What remains are the element tags and theme tags. The difference between elements and themes is a bit fuzzy in my eyes but that doesn't need to concern us: Element tags: Action (sub: Gunfights, Martial Arts (subsub: Ninjas), Super Power, Swordplay (subsub: Samurai)), Adventure, Angst, Anthropomorphism, Comedy (sub: Parody, Slapstick (subsub: Violent retribution for accidental infringement(1)), Super Deformed), Detective, Ecchi (sub: Boing, Pantsu), Fantasy (sub: Angels, Contemporary Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Demons, Dragons, Elves, Goddessess, High Fantasy, Magic, Vampires) Harem(2), Horror, Incest, Mahou Shoujo(3), Romance (sub Love Polygon(4), Shoujo Ai, Shounen Ai, Sudden Girlfriend Appearance), SciFi (sub: Aliens (subsub: Humanoid, Parasites), Human Enhancement (subsub: Cyborgs, Genetic Modification), Mecha (subsub: Androids, Piloted Robots, Power Suits, Robot Helpers, Transforming Robots, Space Travel, Time Travel)), Sexual Abuse, Thriller. (1) Too long (2) Put it under Romance (3) or Magical Girl? (4) Love Polygon is too nondescriptive. Rather: Triangle (boy + 2 girls), Harem(boy + 3 or more girls), Reverse Triangle, Reverse Harem, 'Network' (no clear central character, School Rumble). And finally: Theme tags: Art, Coming of Age, Conspiracy, Cooking, Cyberpunk, Daily Life, Law and Order (sub: Cops, Special Squads), Military (sub: Airforce, Feudal Warfare, Navy), Music (sub: Band, Idol), Performance, Proxy Battles, School Life (sub: Clubs, College, Delinquents, Elementary School, High School, Middle School), Sports (sub: Baseball, Basketball, Combat, Driving, Football, Golf, Gymnastics, Tennis, Volleyball (1)), Tragedy, Underworld (sub: Bounty Hunters, Mafia, Yakuza) (1) Way too many subcategories. I hope I didn't lose anything during editing. So my meta-suggestion would be to make this list the basis of discussion. The list can be changed by a broad consensus among the tag moderators. They would try to modify other tags to fit into this list where possible. Tags that don't fit at all aren't forbidden but the mods would look at them more closely if they are really useful or if one could even include them into the official list. I want a beer. EDIT: The tag cloud itself over at anidb is a good example how not to do things IMHO, starting anywhere and seeing tags like "just wrong", "knightmare frames", "kyuun kyuun", "lacking", "lame", "l33t", "lia is awesome". But maybe I just don't understand Web 2.0. I still want a beer.
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Last edited by Slice of Life; 2008-06-08 at 11:50. |
2008-06-08, 13:45 | Link #210 | |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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And I seriously hope the tag system is not something that could end up being used as a tool for 'certified otakus' to isolate everyone else without "proper anime knowledge".
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2008-06-08, 13:55 | Link #212 | |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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Still, I think the tags should aim for terms people are familiar with (i:e:furry) and not for words only a fraction of the comunity knows.
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2008-06-08, 23:14 | Link #215 | ||||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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That being said, beyond saying "we don't think totally user-defined is the way to go" (especially after seeing the plethora of useless and bad tags created in the last few weeks), I don't think any of the mods or admins want to drive the decision-making on which tags to use, so long as they're "useful". In other words, so long as there is a system, I don't think the mods/admins want to control it. My personal approach is to look at it this way: what are the factors people generally would want to use to find related threads? That's why I personally think things like genre, season, animation studio, original creator, and so on would be useful. But like I said, that's just my personal opinion; it doesn't look like there will be some sort of "official position" coming from the admins that I've seen (but they can obviously correct me!). Quote:
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So I think there are arguments that could be made, anyway. Personally, if you're going to use "shoujo", "shounen", and "seinen", it doesn't make sense to ditch "josei", "kodomo", and "mina" for a more understandable term set, because it's just selective use of the Japanese language. If you're using the Japanese terms, use the Japanese terms, I think. That being said, it wouldn't be so bad to have a second tag that's for the translated version of the term, I guess. |
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2008-06-08, 23:36 | Link #216 | |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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Don't know if it's possible but, can tags be chained to other similar ones? I mean, let's say that I do a search using "Furry" and as the forum displays the results I could see a message saying: For similar content look also for kemonomimi Or something like that.
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2008-06-08, 23:58 | Link #217 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2008-06-09, 00:05 | Link #218 |
MHD != HD
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Better than studio quality
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Seriously. I just read that laundry list of stuff that relentlessflame posted, and my god. Clearly you guys are thinking faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much about this. I mean, all this so users can put crappy tags on threads. A tag committee that gets together, sorts out tags, populates lists, just so a user can tag a thread with some term from a predetermined list? Seems like way too much trouble. I knew this was going to happen when this feature showed up. Might as well just shut it off instead of jumping through all of these hoops.
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