Farenheit 9/11

[Yamano667]

What people think about the new movie released by Michael Moore
that targets the Bush Administration ?? Was the war on iraq a lie
or was the right thing to do ? Was Bin Laden a week prior in the USA 9/11 attack
and fled the country thanks to the Bush Administration.

Why the british follows whatever the americans do ??

[RichMan]

He (that fat guy who created the movie/documentary) is stupid. Do you really think he's been given all the facts about all this? No, that information isn't going to be out till this whole thing is over and they start writing it in History textbooks. He is completely biased and does whatever he can to bash Bush. If he worked as President Bush's right-hand man, then he would know all the facts and then he could make a movie/documentary that had true facts and isn't just a movie about retards saying they hate bush for making them fight those inocent Iraqis. <sarcasm> We all know that most of them are innocent civilians, but they have also been manipulated by the government and various groups to believe that America is evil. If they were SO innocent then they wouldn't be killing us.

Yes, I am pro-war, because I know if we (the United States) don't stop terrorism and stop there corrupt government, then it will all happen again and another incident like 9/11 will happen to us, once again and most importantly I support Bush!

Heck, he (and everyone else) is lucky to live here in the United States, because this is one of the few countries on Earth that will allow you to make movie/documentary that is completely against the government. In other countries you'd be sent to prison, or worse....

[Mr_Paper]

I'd very much like to see this movie.

I love Michael Moore's documentaries and the way they are done. He doesn't beat around the bush or gloss over things, he simple shows the truth without bias (of course, that can be argued against by those that disagree with him). I believe it will be interesting to see his views on 9/11, the war on Iraq and his all out Bush bashing. ^^

Movie site: http://www.fahrenheit911.com/

Until it comes out on Friday (June 25), maybe I'll watch The Corporation again...

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by RichMan

He (that fat guy who created the movie/documentary) is stupid. Do you really think he's been given all the facts about all this? No, that information isn't going to be out till this whole thing is over and they start writing it in History textbooks. He is completely biased and does whatever he can to bash Bush. If he worked as President Bush's right-hand man, then he would know all the facts and then he could make a movie/documentary that had true facts and isn't just a movie about retards saying they hate bush for making them fight those inocent Iraqis. <sarcasm> We all know that most of them are innocent civilians, but they have also been manipulated by the government and various groups to believe that America is evil. If they were SO innocent then they wouldn't be killing us.

Yes, I am pro-war, because I know if we (the United States) don't stop terrorism and stop there corrupt government, then it will all happen again and another incident like 9/11 will happen to us, once again and most importantly I support Bush!

Heck, he (and everyone else) is lucky to live here in the United States, because this is one of the few countries on Earth that will allow you to make movie/documentary that is completely against the government. In other countries you'd be sent to prison, or worse....

Forget about being pro-war, because you are bieng more like a hypocrite now. Why? Because it seems like you didn't even see the movie but are slamming it just because you heard it was some thing agiasnt what ever you believe.

And get your fact straight before you ever post any thing so brain washed.

[dragonz20]

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

I'd very much like to see this movie.

I love Michael Moore's documentaries and the way they are done. He doesn't beat around the bush or gloss over things, he simple shows the truth without bias (of course, that can be argued against by those that disagree with him). I believe it will be interesting to see his views on 9/11, the war on Iraq and his all out Bush bashing. ^^

Movie site: http://www.fahrenheit911.com/

Until it comes out on Friday (June 25), maybe I'll watch The Corporation again...

he's actually very biased and deceiving in many ways. people (his fans in particular) are painting him to be a speaker of truth but he's just really twisting the facts for his own purposes. He will also conveniently leave out any "truths" that may contradict his message in most of his documentaries and sometimes even blatantly lie to convey a message.

I'll wait for the dvd to come out to check it out but I don't see this as much more than a biased documentary used as a political tool.

[Mr_Paper]

Can you site some examples of where he's blantantly lied or twisted the truth in his documentaries? Not that I don't believe you, I'm sure there are places were certain truths are omitted for the sake of the message (it's quite common place in most documentaries), but I'm interested in the particulars.

[tsurumaru]

Originally Posted by Yamano667

Why the british follows whatever the americans do (Sic)??

This is because of our "Special relationship" with the US, both as permanent members of the UN security council, and fellow NATO allies, with very similar cultures and shared history, our foreign policies are usually aligned in a very similar way.

There was actually a strong anti war movement in the UK prior to the war in Iraq and our current Prime Minister has been suffering in the polls since (as most of the reasons for justification of the war "Weapons of mass destruction" et al have been disproved). President Bush has remained fairly unpopular too, although this is probably for a number of reasons.

Personally do I believe that a corrupt maniacal dictator who slaughtered and tortured his own people and whom UN sanctions had practically no effect on should have been removed from power even by force? Yes

Do I believe that the general public should have been lied to in order to gather public support and momentum to justify a war, or that a personal vendetta by Bush should have been one of the primary drivers towards this? No

[Yamano667]

The guy who twisted the truth is Bush

1 they never found weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ
2 Bin Laden is a CIA agent (The USA general's and high rank officials were away, during the 911 incident...are they either psychics? or they knew that the 911 was going to happen )
3 All this war was made for OIL purposes only (corporation's $$$ billions revenue)
4 The Army tortured the IRAQ citizens Jailed and no severe punishment was given
to soldiers .. Generals (cant be touched and the minister of defence cant be touched either...is that democracy ?? or is another facist country under the pretence of democracy
5 Is the english prime minister a slave of Bush ?
6 American citizens seem to be blindfolded (another great president maybe they should make an statue for this one ..what a joke )
7 America (USA) is truly a corrupt world ..Michael Moore deserves an OSCAR for this movie..he is showing us the truth of the selfish USA

[wnkryo]

Originally Posted by Yamano667

The guy who twisted the truth is Bush

1 they never found weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ
2 Bin Laden is a CIA agent (The USA general's and high rank officials were away, during the 911 incident...are they either psychics? or they knew that the 911 was going to happen )
3 All this war was made for OIL purposes only (corporation's $$$ revenue billions)
4 The Army tortured the IRAQ citizens Jailed and no severe punishment was given
to soldiers .. Generals (cant be touched and the minister of defence cant be touched either...is that democracy ?? or is another facist country under the pretence of democracy
5 Is the english prime minister a slave of Bush ?

Answers:

1. Nope they never found any thing becuase there was nothing to be found
2. Yup, he was, and it's funny how no body was told that until way after the war in Iraq/afghanistan
3. 70% of the reason why we went to war; oil.
4. Oh, they got punished, remember? They got quite a good slap on the wrist. Infact, some soilders say they had a concusion when they got hit on the wrist, but quickly recovered after playing "pin the tale on the naked Iraqi prisoner of war".
5. Fetch doggy fetch---BUsh "yes sir"-bliare

[Yamano667]

From the farenheit movie

So congressmen dont read the bills they pass in congress ..do you guys elect retards to represent your nation ?? HEEHE what a laugh

Originally Posted by wnkryo

Answers:

1. Nope they never found any thing becuase there was nothing to be found
2. Yup, he was, and it's funny how no body was told that until way after the war in Iraq/afghanistan
3. 70% of the reason why we went to war; oil.
4. Oh, they got punished, remember? They got quite a good slap on the wrist. Infact, some soilders say they had a concusion when they got hit on the wrist, but quickly recovered after playing "pin the tale on the naked Iraqi prisoner of war".
5. Fetch doggy fetch---BUsh "yes sir"-bliare

[Yamano667]

whats the corporation ..MR PAPER
you got a link of it ?

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

I'd very much like to see this movie.

I love Michael Moore's documentaries and the way they are done. He doesn't beat around the bush or gloss over things, he simple shows the truth without bias (of course, that can be argued against by those that disagree with him). I believe it will be interesting to see his views on 9/11, the war on Iraq and his all out Bush bashing. ^^

Movie site: http://www.fahrenheit911.com/

Until it comes out on Friday (June 25), maybe I'll watch The Corporation again...

[dragonz20]

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

Can you site some examples of where he's blantantly lied or twisted the truth in his documentaries? Not that I don't believe you, I'm sure there are places were certain truths are omitted for the sake of the message (it's quite common place in most documentaries), but I'm interested in the particulars.

there are several websites dedicated to the bashing of Michael Moore and they offer ample evidence of blatant lies and half truths found in his documentaries.

but for your viewing pleasure, i have provided 2 links right here for your amusement:

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html
http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/C4/


edit:
and i found this one particular interesting because it trails the twistings and half-truths some of you have been spoon-fed so well:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016.html

[Mr_Paper]

Originally Posted by Yamano667

whats the corporation ..MR PAPER
you got a link of it ?

Yep ^^

http://www.thecorporation.tv/

"One hundred and fifty years ago, the corporation was a relatively insignificant entity. Today, it is a vivid, dramatic and pervasive presence in all our lives. Like the Church, the Monarchy and the Communist Party in other times and places, the corporation is today’s dominant institution. But history humbles dominant institutions. All have been crushed, belittled or absorbed into some new order. The corporation is unlikely to be the first to defy history. In this complex and highly entertaining documentary, Mark Achbar, co-director of the influential and inventive MANUFACTURING CONSENT: NOAM CHOMSKY AND THE MEDIA, teams up with co-director Jennifer Abbott and writer Joel Bakan to examine the far-reaching repercussions of the corporation’s increasing preeminence. Based on Bakan’s book The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power, the film is a timely, critical inquiry that invites CEOs, whistle-blowers, brokers, gurus, spies, players, pawns and pundits on a graphic and engaging quest to reveal the 4corporation’s inner workings, curious history, controversial impacts and possible futures. Featuring illuminating interviews with Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Howard Zinn and many others, THE CORPORATION charts the spectacular rise of an institution aimed at achieving specific economic goals as it also recounts victories against this apparently invincible force." - From the movie's site.

However, I think my sister described the movie best when she said it's message was "it would be quicker just to kill yourself."

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by Yamano667

The guy who twisted the truth is Bush

1 they never found weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ
2 Bin Laden is a CIA agent (The USA general's and high rank officials were away, during the 911 incident...are they either psychics? or they knew that the 911 was going to happen )
3 All this war was made for OIL purposes only (corporation's $$$ billions revenue)
4 The Army tortured the IRAQ citizens Jailed and no severe punishment was given
to soldiers .. Generals (cant be touched and the minister of defence cant be touched either...is that democracy ?? or is another facist country under the pretence of democracy
5 Is the english prime minister a slave of Bush ?
6 American citizens seem to be blindfolded (another great president maybe they should make an statue for this one ..what a joke )
7 America (USA) is truly a corrupt world ..Michael Moore deserves an OSCAR for this movie..he is showing us the truth of the selfish USA

1: We didn't NEED to find any. Saddam violated UN agreements, supported terrorism, and was a mass murderer.
2: No comment
3: Where is all this oil we supposidly got?
4: The army also shot and blew up a bunch of Iraqis. That's what happens during war. Not to mention the Coalition soldiers and civilian contractors that have been tortured and killed by Iraqis.
5: No comment
6: There are very few people that know ALL of what is going on. You know as little as anyone else.
7: Not as corrupt as Saddam's regime and many others on this planet.
Michael Moore has been shown to outright lie. I won't comment on this particular documentary, however.
Everyone is selfish. No one would act if it didn't benefit them is some way.

[Yamano667]

Whats the world is coming to ?? Is sad to see how americans elect drunk man like Bush to lead them into their own demise and shame.

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

Yep ^^

http://www.thecorporation.tv/

"One hundred and fifty years ago, the corporation was a relatively insignificant entity. Today, it is a vivid, dramatic and pervasive presence in all our lives. Like the Church, the Monarchy and the Communist Party in other times and places, the corporation is today’s dominant institution. But history humbles dominant institutions. All have been crushed, belittled or absorbed into some new order. The corporation is unlikely to be the first to defy history. In this complex and highly entertaining documentary, Mark Achbar, co-director of the influential and inventive MANUFACTURING CONSENT: NOAM CHOMSKY AND THE MEDIA, teams up with co-director Jennifer Abbott and writer Joel Bakan to examine the far-reaching repercussions of the corporation’s increasing preeminence. Based on Bakan’s book The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power, the film is a timely, critical inquiry that invites CEOs, whistle-blowers, brokers, gurus, spies, players, pawns and pundits on a graphic and engaging quest to reveal the 4corporation’s inner workings, curious history, controversial impacts and possible futures. Featuring illuminating interviews with Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Howard Zinn and many others, THE CORPORATION charts the spectacular rise of an institution aimed at achieving specific economic goals as it also recounts victories against this apparently invincible force." - From the movie's site.

However, I think my sister described the movie best when she said it's message was "it would be quicker just to kill yourself."

[Yogo_Pogo]

Originally Posted by RichMan

If they were SO innocent then they wouldn't be killing us.

Yes, I am pro-war, because I know if we (the United States) don't stop terrorism and stop there corrupt government, then it will all happen again and another incident like 9/11 will happen to us, once again and most importantly I support Bush!

You said "us" two times. You want USA to go on a war against them only because USA was attack? Maybe that's not exactly what you meant... The USA are doing like they are the only country that is worthy of existence on this planet. Most of americans did not care about war before they were attack and i'm sure they agree for a war in Iraq because it would not have been held in their territory.

Reality and fact from history will show you that innocent sometimes kills and they got reason. Yes they can be brainwashed by their ruler but they got the right to defend themself. If you allow USA to kill for their protection and their so called "war against terrorism" you should allow other country do to the same.

But i was very disapointed by the UN for doing nothing. (hehe)
I heard that people in England were not all in favor of the war. That's one other point that should go to democraty...
I stopped watching new after the 9/11 because i realize how much we were uninformed and brainwashed. The problem is not to know if Bush said the truth or not, but to know what he was intend to do with what he said to americans.

And to finish...
Soldier are made to fight right? So why complaining about death of soldier if they are made to fight. In a war death is certain in a side or the other.

[babbito2k]

Originally Posted by RichMan

everyone... is lucky to live here in the United States...

Not everyone does, I think that's kind of the point of protesting the invasion of Iraq. Freedom of speech isn't a privilege, it's a right - people are free to say what they want, not what someone else says it's OK to say.

It seems to me that the administration is kind of unravelling lately; I guess it's time for some of Bush's "right-hand men" to think about how they will be judged by history instead of simply backing Bush's plans to the hilt.

I never thought the invasion of Iraq was justified, but unfortunately it was done anyway. More importantly, I also think the conduct of the invasion and occupation is inept - and a lot of people agree. It will be interesting to see a criticism of the whole mess.

[Mr_Paper]

Originally Posted by dragonz20

there are several websites dedicated to the bashing of Michael Moore and they offer ample evidence of blatant lies and half truths found in his documentaries.

but for your viewing pleasure, i have provided 2 links right here for your amusement:

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html
http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/C4/


edit:
and i found this one particular interesting because it trails the twistings and half-truths some of you have been spoon-fed so well:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016.html

Hmm...

Thanks for the links. While I can't claim, nor have ever claimed, that his sources were accurate those articles certainly prove that much of them are far from it. Even as such I still won't dismiss his films as pointless tripe or rubbish. Regardless of the twisted facts, their messages are still very much the same. If you take them at face value, they are all a call for social reform and people to actually look at and think about the world arround them.

[RichMan]

Originally Posted by wnkryo

Forget about being pro-war, because you are bieng more like a hypocrite now. Why? Because it seems like you didn't even see the movie but are slamming it just because you heard it was some thing agiasnt what ever you believe.

And get your fact straight before you ever post any thing so brain washed.

Haha, no. Just 2 nights ago I was watching a show where they interviewed the guy that made this, he admitted that this movie/documentary is a bash at the bush administration. So, you can't say anything about that, and he told all about the movie, so I know what it's going to be like.

Well, if you guys want to ignorant and believe this crap, go ahead. You have that right. Besides, there's no way you could stop the war. It's for our own good.

Let's pretend that the war did stop, all the U.S. soldiers and such just left right now and left them alone. The U.S. announces that we will never again bother with any other country and we'll only mind our own business. Plus, we no longer take oil from a middle eastern country. First off, oil prices would sky rocket, then Iraq would get another corrupt leader (Saddam killed thousands upon thousands of his own people, so i'm sure it'll happen with there new leader). Then (like with Afganistan) they would hate the U.S. even more because there government is corrupt and people are being killed, then 9/11 happens all over again.

Ya get it now? That's all i'm going to say. I hope you guys are intelligent enough to understand.

[Yamano667]

I do agree with you. All interviews that MR MOORE were made with the living president and members of the govenments and other organizations who helped to promote the war in one or other way.

American citizens dont want to accept the truth because, accepting the truth is
shameful and disgracing ..they just opt to ignore or make excuses ..I feel sad for the american public, and see how brain washed are

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

Hmm...

Thanks for the links. While I can't claim, nor have ever claimed, that his sources were accurate those articles certainly prove that much of them are far from it. Even as such I still won't dismiss his films as pointless tripe or rubbish. Regardless of the twisted facts, their messages are still very much the same. If you take them at face value, they are all a call for social reform and people to actually look at and think about the world arround them.