2012-01-26, 15:09 | Link #6741 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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@sol.
What do you mean kuma is the one who can fix medakas beast? It has been stated since her birth that she was not a normal girl, she was a beast from the start. Kuma's role in it would have been to turn the beast into a feral one (inner), where as zen turned it into a cute and cuddly beast (outer appearance). Kuma being able to "fix" the feral beast is not possible, cause he himself would have to go from a minus to a plus, kuma doesn't have the personality to want to help her as she is not in his weak category. Zen also couldn't fix the beast or the saint either, but as he has done before, he can cage it. Zen and kuma are gonna have to be unlikely partners in crime if they want to do something about medaka. |
2012-01-26, 15:31 | Link #6742 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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After reading countless opinions abaut zenkichi and medaka one question ocurred to me ; Why cant zenkichi escape Medakaverse ( medaka universe = World that goes everything according to Medakas will ) . From what i see Zenkichi doesnt beleng to Medakaverse cause he is a "light novel hero" who has accidenly fall for a "shounen hero" Medaka . As Ajimu said this manga isnt a light novel so when Zenkichi doesnt give Medaka what she wants , he is history for her . in all light novels main hero usually sucks but even so gets heroine or heroines cause in these kinds of stories heroines usually looks for afection from others , but medaka isnt like that she doesnt need anyone she is professor X , Batman and Superman also a loner .
if Medaka never dragged Zenkichi all his life , Zenkichi probably would have a harem life there is no doupt . From what i see Medaka pushed Zenkichi loneliness and unhappy life , Zenkichi is bounded by Medakas invisible chains and even he admits he is his dog . Medaka fans see Zenkichi rude one cause they think he is her dog so he have to answer her expectations but is there really a door out for Zenkichi ? What i mean is can Zenkichi escape medakas claws ? Medaka has absolutely no intencion of letting Zenkichi go cause she owns him , even Zenkichis mother left her son to mercy of Medaka which is so cruel in my idea . Does anyone remember story Ajimu told to kumagawa ( its abaut masters broke their slaves bones till slaves begs them to die ) from what i see Medaka is doing same thing to Zenkichi but Zenkichi doesnt give up and that gives medaka pleasure . Medaka wants to rule people and i guess thats clear to everyone so escaping Medaka has 3 ways 1- unthrone her and be king yourself ( Zenkichi is trying ) 2- go another kingdom ( ajimu gave that option to zenkichi ) 3- make your own kingdom . From what i see zenkichi is going wrong way cause best possible action here is 3 if not 2 but no matter what you musnt do 1 . Zenkichi is trying to be revolutinary but if things go wrong , youll lose everything which is so risky and after revolutions no one likes old king so Medaka will be in a tight spot etc.. if i were zenkichi i would escape that school without looking back ( lol ) i also think Zenkichi doesnt love medaka , he just dont know better . Medaka isnt just a love interest of Zenkichi , she is fountain of his life and Zenkichi dont know what to do if he lets Medaka go . We can also think that like slave-master relatonship ( even if you cut the chain of a slave they wont escape ) , just look at that medaka beats him pushes him to limits etc... but he still chooses her ( stockholm sendrome ) . Medaka sistematcly abused Zenkichi till he was 2 years old so he is conditioned that he cant escape from Medaka even at the beginnig he says that himself . i also dont understand why people think Medaka is a good person , so if a dictator comes to your country and tells you how to live your life and some small things gets better will you love him/her ? i really hope someone saves Zenkichi cause as normal he is there is no hope for him |
2012-01-26, 15:33 | Link #6743 | ||||
Not Enough Sleep
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2012-01-26, 16:34 | Link #6745 |
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i really wonder why Zenkichi doesnt use parasite seeing on Medaka , i think he probably afraids cause he wouldnt be able to handle it . it would be too cool if Zenkichi use parasite seeing on Medaka and starts to vomit because of dreadful sight and escapes after that
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2012-01-26, 17:00 | Link #6746 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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Aijmu see people as Things. No difference between a person and a chair. Form Medaka's flashback as a child i think she sees people as pets. like a dog or cat. I think you are right, Zenki is definitely afraid of what he would find if he look through Medaka's eyes. And If he isn't afraid of he will see, he should be.
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Last edited by Xellos-_^; 2012-01-26 at 18:28. |
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2012-01-26, 19:01 | Link #6747 | |||||||||||||||||||
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Sorry guys, another wall of text. I don't even have time to clean it up, since I'm writing it in between working.
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Then you spent loads of time trolling and baiting people along these lines when Medaka did something that annoyed people for a legitimate reason. I remember when you were trying to defend Medaka's behavior after the clock tower; the commentary got so biased it was just ridiculous. Also, after it started morphing into a sort of 'Zenkichi making Medaka look bad thing' there was the little comments like, "Zenkichi just wanted to get into Medaka's pants." It's obvious when you're trying to throw mud. I like it when people tell me interesting things; I don't care for dealing with their axes to grind. If someone is a dedicated fan of a character, I think it's more respect-worthy to have the position that you'll take your character's vinegar with their honey rather than trying to defend your character against their legitimate faults. The latter is something along the lines of shooting the messenger of bad news. The most common defense I heard was "everybody was biased and bitching against Medaka and the manga. There had been so many posts like that in the past that it flooded the forums and those people were a pain and needed to be put in their place." Of course I'm going to mock that attitude when I came into the middle of the warzone with honest intentions. Especially when it's an irony that the reason why I was writing so much was because I was interested in the manga. Quote:
I'm not buying into the idea that interest needs to be cultivated; you're interested in defending your favorite character. As for the anime, I won't be commenting on the anime much whatsoever when people start discussing it and there is an obvious reason. It's years behind the manga. The anime will just catch up to the manga, if it's like almost every other anime out there. So, if you're interested in figuring things out, the anime is useless for that. You can watch it, but you already know it's going to happen. It's not interesting to talk about for people who want to understand the story better, because there just isn't enough material. Quote:
I never think of anything I read as shallow tripe. But I think I described pretty well why I thought many people would be turned off by Medaka Box because it trashed its expectations. When you're writing, building up the expectations and relying on the what people have seen in similar works is something you need to do to make something popular. You want something different, but not too different. I'd even argue that those expectations are going to be fulfilled, but basically I think that there weren't enough bones thrown to people who were looking something like History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi. It's ok to troll your readers, and you want to in order to build tension. Eventually they'll get frustrated and leave your readership though. Quote:
But I'm not really comfortable with that characterization. It's pretty accurate because it pretty much models what she does, but I'm not completely sure why she does what she does. Also, I don't know if she's a loose cannon or not. It's been suggested that she's unorthodox, but I don't know if she is out of control. I'm not sure how she's changed from when she was stopped from killing Unzen. She may be the same person, and certainly that leads to believe me that she did kill her step-father. I can't be sure though that she's just been held back by the people around her, or if she's changed because of the people around her. Quote:
The thing is that we really haven't learned that much about Medaka. I think this arc is where we finally see some resolutions. That you're pulling hindu myth as a tie-in and namesake, but I don't see that anywhere else in the manga. It's just random. I haven't seen any evidence that's anything more than a coincidental comparison. Quote:
I think the idea of Medaka becoming 'unchained' as well as being unstoppable would be a nice plot twist for this arc. I'm still not convinced though that it would be appropriate to call that her 'true' side. She's also very rigorously self-controlled; she's shown lack of control before, but she's shown complete self control as well. Quote:
I think that you're reaching too far to say that Medaka is a beast with a filter. I don't know if that's the right way to think about it. Remarking on the past couple of sections, you kinda missed my point and just went off. I was talking about stereotypes. She still fits. I explained what had been done with her character. Heroes of her type are strong. They're bigger than life. As for the hidden dark side, look at Naruto and the Kyuubi. There are far older stories too that are just like that. There are darker heroes like that; often great power is associated with dark or evil or chaotic forces. There are twists going on here; but so what? It still fits. Quote:
Having the ability and having the destiny, I think that's where the idea for abnormalities came from. It was a reoccurring literary device that was pulled out and turned into an actual thing. Separating her 'being a monster' and being perfect, that's an odd way of thinking.. She's not a monster in the bad sense; she's a monster in the intimidating sense. That's part of being perfect in the sense that perfect applies to Medaka. A monster becoming human, that's an interesting way of thinking about it. But really, it doesn't nullify anything that I'm saying. It doesn't even clash. Whenever you have a story, you have multiple threads that are woven together... But still, I think that's a bit too strongly worded. It's not that she's a monster; it's that she has absolute capability and it separates her from the rest of humanity. I put forth a theory, which is sourced from Medaka's memory of her childhood and Maguro's comment that nobody could ever teach her anything, that she never needed to depend on anyone. I've explained how it makes sense that would be related to the way she relates to the world. I think you're focusing too much on the beast comment and how intimidating she is, without explaining anything else or explaining what these things mean or how they came about. Quote:
Also when you have events happen, it doesn't have one meaning; it has multiple meanings. It's not one or the other; it's usually both. I'm talking about the thread of this story that is about Zenkichi and Medaka. I'm also, obviously, talking about the framework that the story introduces to you. There's multiple things going on. You have the character development, plot development, relationship development, the conflicts, the fourth wall breaking commentary and so on. Is Medaka the center of the story? Yes, because she's the main character. She drives the plot forward. Is she at the center of the plot? Absolutely. Is the story about her? That's not exactly the right way to think about. I have read stories that are simple enough to say they are about a person, but usually they're pretty simple or they're a fictional biography. It's gotten to the point that Medaka isn't even getting that much page time. But here's huge thread that you've ignored. Ajimu has been around forever. Ajimu has been influencing events all over the place, and it would make sense for her to have even influenced different characters meeting and being born and all sorts of things. She even built the school. At what point do you say that the story is actually about Ajimu and not Medaka. Medaka, in the context of Ajimu, is a tool. She's a tool for the flask plan. In fact, this whole scenario is. We're being clearly told that Medaka might no longer be the center of the story, and that Ajimu is planning a main character switch. You could easily say that the original progenitor of events is Ajimu. Are there completely different and even tangential plot elements introduced? Yes. Did the story change its direction and focus multiple times over the course of the manga? Yes. Do different characters serve different purposes? Yes. Do some characters serve different purposes at different times? Yes. Do they have other purposes than what you're about about? Yes. Did it ever stop being about Zenkichis and Medaka's relationship? No. Did it ever stop being about Medaka's development? No. Are these two elements contradictory? No. Does anything you said disprove anything I was saying? No. Basically you said, here's what I think the story is about. Medaka's development, Zenkichi's commentary and the relationship and even suggested future rivalry of Medaka and Zenkichi are all there. And you're saying that it's a one or the other contrast, you're just plain wrong. All of these elements and plot lines are all there at the same time. You're saying things like this current arc about Zenkichi becoming main character through the flask plan and the success of the flask plan is about Medaka. Well, it's also about Ajimu. It's also about Zenkichi. It just depends on what perspective or thread you're trying to pull out. You could also say it's about Or turn the Medaka-centrism on its head.... Medaka's development is actually and always has been about the flask plan. If you're going to talk about it in the order that plot elements are introduced, how do you know that Nishio didn't have the flask plan in mind from the very moment he created Medaka? I would argue that character centrism is a far too simple a way to think about this story. Quote:
You saying that Medaka has multiple sides, and that Zenkichi is in love with one side. But Medaka is really the beast, but and in anothe5 part of the post you say that deep down she even truer human side. You're also saying things like Zenkichi can't do anything about 'the beast'. You're just pulling things out of nowhere. It's interesting for to read, but again is it's not founded in anything in the manga. I'll comment on that more in the appropriate section. Medaka calls herself a beast, but Ajimu calls Medaka a human. It's never really shown exactly what that means, only that it's dark, it melts you down, and it's something that a normal person could not stand or tolerate while remaining human. My initial impression that it was the side effect of her abnormality. Remember when Oudo tried to take her abnormality and he thought he was melting? Well, Medaka's abnormality builds her up constantly, but I think the flip side of that is that it has to 'melt you down' first. Her abnormality destroys her as often as it reconstructs her. What I would have initially thought was that her abnormality is doing something bad to her, and that's why she calls herself a beast... And that her abnormality is something that a human being can't stand. Quote:
You're trying too hard to aim for the rationale of Kumagawa + Medaka. Quote:
I already mentioned why I don't think Medaka isn't built for love for love right now. Also, that's a big statement that Kumagawa is better for Medaka for countless thematic reasons. Winner + loser, maybe? Medaka creates changes and Kumogawa also creates changes, and they both negate each other in how they create change? Quote:
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In History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Kenichi trains all the time to get stronger. That justifies him being strong. He put a huge amount of 'effort', which is effort over time. He was diligent and he kept on working. Medaka can't do that. As soon as she needs to do something, she's able to do it. So, yes, Zenkichi has put way more effort, meaning effort over time, into becoming strong than she has. Quote:
What I was doing was pointing out through a specific example where Zenkichi is in a situation that would crush someone's ego. A situation that someone would not want to subject themselves to. As I mentioned, it's a testament to the constitution of his mind that he's not suicidal, but that doesn't make his situation any less worse. If there is a huge disaster and you don't panic, it doesn't mean that the disaster wasn't there. It also doesn't mean that you didn't suffer. Your reaction reflects your own character and fortitude. He made the best of a situation that he was not suited to, and the remarkable part of his character was a mind that never broke. It's not that he wasn't under strain. |
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2012-01-26, 22:52 | Link #6751 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Age: 45
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Why does it feel like Kumagawas lost was planned. All his members technically infiltrated the union including Kumagawa. How will his new infiltration affect the elections?
Spoiler for chapter 131:
But after re reading it again, it was Unzens last turn and his next disqualification but he made Tokemichi spin the roulette again without using his move. 'They won because they cheated?. Correct me if i'm wrong please. Spoiler for chapter 131 2:
Last edited by osorito; 2012-01-26 at 23:14. |
2012-01-26, 23:25 | Link #6753 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Loved the chapter. You can always count on Kumagawa and Ajimu to deliver on unconventional strategies and screwy mind games whenever they show up. Part of the reason why I like them so much.
That last page really has me wondering though. What's the deal with Tachiarai? And apparently, losing was also part of Kumagawa's plan? What is the complete plan anyway? I was all set to get back to the so called "main plot" after this chapter too. But now I really don't want to. Which probably means Nisiosin will juts leave us with this semi-cliffhanger. Is it odd that currently, I'm looking forward to the so called "side-show" much more than the "main plot" in this arc? Zenkichi is as straight forward as can be, I know what to expect. Medaka is content to just sit back and wait for now. For the moment, Ajimu and the "Kumagawa Box" show is my main source of entertainment in this manga. Even though this is nominally Zen's arc, I hope it won't shift focus back to him for at least a few more chapters. |
2012-01-26, 23:28 | Link #6755 | |
KORA!!
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2012-01-26, 23:34 | Link #6756 | |
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Location: USA
Age: 45
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2012-01-26, 23:51 | Link #6758 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Spoiler for chapter 131:
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action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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