Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill

[ion475]

Next, Ishihara will be shouting "Hey, Yankess, we have space on our airwaves for your stupid crap now!! Feel free to flood our market with Disney, Simpsons and Spongebob Squarepants!"

That won't happen either. Ishihara is xenophobic, remember...(He's as far-right as it can get. Why he get reelected? b/c he shares the "true view" of many people).

That said, I did want to refute a couple of arguments I've seen that this is not a serious threat. First, the "It's only in Tokyo so publishers will just move" idea. The issue is not merely where a company's offices and studios are located. Tokyo is the economic and population center of Japan, and there is no close second. Without access to the Tokyo market, it wouldn't be financially viable to try and produce an anime or manga.

Well, add cultural center to Tokyo list. What's "popular" in Tokyo = what's popular in Japan as a whole. I guess people haven't heard of how "Tokyo-centric" Japan is (although most reference to it would be concern about what would happen if, let say, a giant earthquake struck Tokyo. Then Japan is really screwed...)

As far as economic impact - while anime/manga industry is not small, it's not like Japan depends on it either. And general population? I doubt they care...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What justifiably offends many industry people is that the restrictions imposed in this crap bill apply only to manga, anime, games, etc - mainstream live-action films, TV and novels are exempt. How is this not a gross abuse of the public trust and a vendetta-driven attack on a specific industry?

Because from what I read on ANN some of this (live-action, hentai for example) is covered in other laws already.

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[Vexx]

Originally Posted by ion475

That won't happen either. Ishihara is xenophobic, remember...(He's as far-right as it can get. Why he get reelected? b/c he shares the "true view" of many people).

Well.. he shares the "true view" with *enough* of the people who *vote* to get re-elected. I wonder how many otaku *vote*? Or young people in general? (Like in the US, elections are more often won by the fact that too many people stay home). Ishihara is in office because a few hyper-conservative ultra-nationalist dweebles get out and vote while the vast majority don't because they don't connect the dots on how what he does impacts them.

Here's a mainstream news reaction (Mainichi Daily News), they're doing the Japanese equivalent of saying "wtf?" in nice-talk that the law makes some hash of the line of free speech and is questionably written in terms of what it misses or covers:

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/perspectives/...na036000c.html

Spoiler for Snapshot of english version of article:

Metro Tokyo ordinance on sexually explicit manga walks fine line on freedom of speech

The Tokyo Metropolitan Government has filed a draft revision to a metropolitan ordinance to tighten control over sexual content in manga and animation. The move came after a previous draft revision was voted down at the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly in June, and the latest draft is an updated version of the rejected plan.
In the previous draft, characters aged under 18 that appear in manga and animated works were defined as "virtual youths," and related industries were urged to voluntarily regulate the sale of works involving overly explicit sexual content by taking such measures as displaying those titles separately from other publications on store shelves and out of the hands of children.
The initial draft revision also stipulated that every citizen shall have a responsibility not to possess child pornography.
However, the metropolitan assembly rejected the draft revision in June, arguing that the amendment could infringe upon freedom of expression. The metropolitan government has submitted the updated draft, saying it has made clearer the provisions that had been criticized as ambiguous in the previous version.
As it turns out, the updated draft drops a provision that obligated citizens to make efforts to prevent the spread of questionable content in comics and animation. While the previous draft granted the metropolitan government the right to conduct necessary investigations into the guardians of children who committed illegal or harmful acts on the Internet, the updated version only stipulates that the Tokyo government will provide information or assistance to them. As to citizens' responsibility not to possess child pornography, the latest draft only states that citizens are urged to make voluntary efforts to eradicate child pornography.
To be subject to regulations under the latest draft are works that glorify or exaggerate sexual intercourse that violates penal laws, as well as incest. The metropolitan government explains that "only manga and animation that glorifies or exaggerates illegal sexual acts will be subject to the regulations, and freedom of expression will not be violated."
However, cartoonists and authors are strongly opposing the latest draft revision, claiming that the proposed amendment still retains ambiguous provisions that would allow arbitrary interpretation by the authorities. "On the contrary, because of the deletion of the expression, 'virtual youths,' portrayals of characters aged 18 or over will also be subject to the regulations, resulting in a broadened realm of control," they claim.
The question of whether it is acceptable to allow children access to cartoons that include overly explicit sexual content, as well as whether the publishing industry's self-regulation is sufficient enough, still lingers.
It should be kept in mind, however, that such explicit content is already subject to regulation under the existing ordinance, and that obscene materials can also be cracked down on under the Penal Code.
It goes without saying that we should keep up our efforts to voluntarily regulate sexually explicit content to keep them away from children's eyes. But at the same time, such efforts must not result in undermining the popularity of Japanese manga and anime by discouraging authors from free expression through tightened controls. Those concerned are urged to take that into consideration in revising the metropolitan ordinance.

[flying ^]

let's hope some assemblymen choke on full vote so this bill won't pass with a simple majority (50%+1)

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That's how I interpret it as well...

I don't know if there will be exceptions here for violence with no real world equivalent (i.e. such as a battle in Soul Society between Ichigo and Byakuya), or criminal acts done by villains. I mean, that kind of is a big part of what makes many of them villains after all.

However, something like Death Note... a shounen (IIRC) where the main protagonist kills policemen and intelligence agents just trying to do their jobs... that may very well not pass muster as far as this bill is concerned.

I'm not sure off-hand what age groups Higurashi, Elfen Lied, and Umineko were aimed at, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't pass muster for similar reasons.

This could very negatively impact a lot of animes and mangas.

The part of the ordinance that regulates depictions of general criminal acts isn't new, in fact, I'm pretty certain it was around when most of those works were published. The revision only effect depictions of incestuous or illegal sexual (or pseudo sexual - I'm not sure what that means either) acts. See section 2) here:
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/20...s-total-scope/

I'd worry more about something like Great Teacher Onizuka than Higurashi.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

How is this not a gross abuse of the public trust and a vendetta-driven attack on a specific industry?

You're asking a rhetorical question here, right? Given that the Governor of Tokyo is a hyper-conservative douchebag (and I'm not just saying that because of this issue), I'm pretty sure this is an "anti-otaku" thing.

Originally Posted by orion

Because from what I read on ANN some of this (live-action, hentai for example) is covered in other laws already.

No, the previously laws applied to all material, live action or animated. The new revision apply only to anime, live action depictions are still allowed to depict such things. Hence its pretty clear that this has a lot to do with which industries certain politicians like and dislike.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Decagon

The heroes are students who live and breathe delinquency and defiance of authority figures; use and manufacture of weapons banned by the Swords and Firearms Control law among other things; students killing, injuring, and bullying other students; and not to mention the horrible, depressing, and at times graphically violent lives/deaths they had.

Edit: Particularly applicable to a tear jerker like Angel beats, do recall the translation from Dan Kanemitsu's line of "Tokyo already has the power to designate anything that is too sexually stimulating for minors OR too sadistic for minors OR too likely to cause criminal acts among minors OR cause suicide among minors as “harmful material”, and force such material to be treated as adult only material." And replace "cause suicide" with "typical Jun Maeda depressing".

Decagon, I am going to hit u up with some cookies after this. But I am going to take this a couple of step futher.

Well, first of all, This bill can change how we viewed Anime/Manga forever, no matter if you see it or dont see it. When you read the translation of Dan Kanemitsu, you can break it down with a fine pickax to see what they are talking about, let start with

sexually stimulating Boob, Crouch, Butt Shots, Situations with Girl/or Guy falls over the other person in a sexually way, Licking or sucking on foregin objects, foods, and any other things and that before you go into the fine details. (Now that is about 85% of plot elements in some of these shows)

sadistic Like chopping up ppl, burning ppl alive, shoving candy into a person through the stomach and etc, etc, etc

likely to cause criminal acts stealing, killing, hitting opposite genders (no more Falco Punches there, Tomua), and we can keep on going here.

But this bill might open up more a Shitstorm then most ppl might think, Sure it might sound good and have alot of good point but its sounds mudly to me.
Alot of people(alot of anime/manga fans and okatus) know that it is going to fail badly, and many companies is going to lose alot of money out of this (smaller ones is going to get hit the hardest) and it is going to backfire on their economy. Many of my friends from Japan is going crazy about this and they pray that it doesnt get passed.

[Vexx]

Here's a breakdown of the vote on Ishihara from a 2007 article (last re-election):

After eight years in the limelight as the governor of Tokyo it seems that 74 year old Shintaro Ishihara (石原慎太郎) has once again been successful in winning the hearts of the Tokyo tomin (都民, citizens). Despite the fact that 73% of Tokyo’s registered voting population (*) did not vote for him, Ishihara is beginning his third (and apparent final) period in Nishi-Shinjuku.

While most news reports were celebrating Ishihara’s win as a landslide with “over 51% of the vote”, they generally fail to mention that only slightly more than 50% of Tokyo’s registered voter population even bothered to vote yesterday. The population of Tokyo is approximately 12.6 million of which registered citizens of voting age are approximately 10.4 million. While Ishihara’s 2.8 million votes was much higher than Asano’s 1.7 million it does raise a few questions in my eyes about the quality of the conclusions that people draw from them.

Source: http://www.stippy.com/japan-politics...ration-policy/

As easily seen... its a strident small minority that keeps re-electing him - like many countries much of the voting population don't participate unless something is bothering them personally.

[Dist]

Maybe I just misunderstood the post on SankakuComplex or what Vexx posted but does this bill only apply to erotic material or anything that they deem harmful to children's eyes ? .. Good example would be Death Note as Light kills people in it.

If the latter, doesn't that pretty much mean anime as a whole .. as we know it ? Leaving only very few titles left.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Dist

Maybe I just misunderstood the post on SankakuComplex or what Vexx posted but does this bill only apply to erotic material or anything that they deem harmful to children's eyes ? .. Good example would be Death Note as Light kills people in it.

If the latter, doesn't that pretty much mean anime as a whole .. as we know it ? Leaving only very few titles left.

Only 2 populations in Japan watch anime, children and anime-addicted adults (otaku) according to some Japanese responders on the internet.

Death Note would have been taken out in the current law if the Tokyo government wanted to.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Dist

Maybe I just misunderstood the post on SankakuComplex or what Vexx posted but does this bill only apply to erotic material or anything that they deem harmful to children's eyes ? .. Good example would be Death Note as Light kills people in it.

If the latter, doesn't that pretty much mean anime as a whole .. as we know it ? Leaving only very few titles left.

Sankaku Complex = tabloid journalism for the anime community.

This bill is a revision of a ordinance on material harmful for children, and that revision only covers certain types of erotic material (erotic depictions of incest or illegal sex, basically). The ordinance already allowed works to be declared harmful for minors on the basis of sexual stimulation, cruelty, or criminal activity, so the revision has no effect there.

So yes, Orion is right... they could have had Death Note declared harmful to minors a long time ago if they wanted to. They haven't.

[Dist]

Well Death Note was just an example but I meant any anime that has violence in it, for example. Look at One Piece, hundreds of marines die per episode etc.

But if it doesn't have anything to do with that .. Then exactly what does this revision do ? Name few animes that have illegal material in them that aren't hentai cause I can't come up with many ? The only one that pops right in my mind would be Yosuga no Sora, and perhaps later ( possibly ) animated chapters of Oreimo.

[ion475]

Vexx: Thanks for those stats. I guess the "don't care" stigma is not limited to U.S. (Looking back at the election, his major competitor, Asano, has like 2 months to prepared...no wonder he loss).

[Simon]

(Post moved from the TAF thread)

Erica Friedman has a good write-up of this on Okazu. As she points out, the bitter irony of this bill is that it does nothing to protect real children from real harm.

Originally Posted by orion

They have until 7/1/2011 to comply, wrap things up on anything that's ongoing, or add an 18+ label to the property and continue life as is.

Except that as 0utf0xZer0 observed earlier, "R18" automatically attaches the stigma of "porn" to any work that deals with sex. Maybe that's not such a big deal in Japan (sucks to be under 18 and have a brain though), but it will just add to the idiotic perceptions of anime and manga that those of us outside Japan have to deal with: "Yes, I'm an anime fan. No, I'm not a pedo fsck you very much."

You might not care what J. Random Westerner thinks of your reading habits, but you'll care when those misperceptions spread to officialdom: trust me on this, I've fought and lost that battle with the local muppets censors already. This bill may be specific to Tokyo (for now), but it's another example of a very scary world-wide trend in so-called "free societies."

Originally Posted by Vexx

Ya know..... otoh, given the creative ways people work. Maybe.. just maybe we'll start seeing sliceoflife/romance/ecchi/drama/comedies set in *college* or the *workplace*.

Ironically, in itself this isn't such a bad thing. Personally I'd love to see more manga and anime for grown-ups that's about grown-ups - it's 20 years since I did the angsty teen thing, I don't need to be transported back to high school every time I switch on the TV.

(so far, it looks like yaoi is taking a big hit but then we knew Ishihara is specifically homophobic).

This is the part that really worries me: like a lot of censorship law, the bill is so vague that it's wide-open for abuse by anyone with a moral agenda. Terns like "healthy development" in the hands of homophobes are a recipe for a return to the dark ages. Yeah, lets "protect" gay teens by making it even harder for them to read about people like themselves, so they can feel even more isolated than they already do...

I also fear the impact this will have on doujinshi writers who don't have a corporate legal department to protect them. On one hand they may be able to slip under the radar, but on the other the fear of being made an example could make a lot of people decide it's not worth the personal risk. In some ways this angers me more than the effect on mainstream publishers: after attending the last two Comikets and marvelling at the "let one hundred fetishes bloom, let one hundred favourite characters contend" atmosphere, I'd hate to see that hard-won environment of tolerance crushed.

Heh, imagine if the Comiket organisers moved C80 to Osaka? Now that would be a gutsy statement...

[asaqe]

This may be the Comic Code Authority of Japan, it will kill off several genres even after the official code was repealed.

[Sister Princess]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What justifiably offends many industry people is that the restrictions imposed in this crap bill apply only to manga, anime, games, etc - mainstream live-action films, TV and novels are exempt. How is this not a gross abuse of the public trust and a vendetta-driven attack on a specific industry?

Perhaps it's true anime/manga does kill the AV industry, which more or less owned by Yakuza.

[Mr. Wang]

I learned this information off of a Steam Community group, one that has about 1,500 otakus...

This is, and I quote from a page...

Anything that visualises child pornography including soft-core, panchira is to to be banned or changed to R18 of anything that is in the category of games, manga and anime.
If this law is comfirmed, the industry will likely to have a diesastrous impact sueing mangaka's, studios, artists etc etc.
Not only erotic content but also violence is likely to be concernd. Including Jump manga's such as One PIece, Naruto or Toloveru are likely to be in huge trouble.
Any anime related to manga are also likely to be cancelled and late night anime would also be banned under its distribution clause.
There is also some doubt as to whether Comiket will be able to be held under the new regulations. If not, it would be cancelled and removed to another prefecture seems likely.
Right now, publishers are unlikely to have the guts to fight back this regulation but as a good side, the current japanese prime minsiter Naoto Kan disagrees with the regulation as seems things can change as the law was not comfirmed democratically.
As an economic point of view, millions will lose jobs.

Please do whatever to support the distruction of this regulation.
If this is going to happen there will be:

No more good anime airing
Lots of Manga sued forever
Doujinshi will be vanished
and a lot more nameles causes both in Japan and worldwide

God help us all

What does this mean for the future of anime and manga-lovers around the world? This is most troubling indeed...

This page provides some additional information.

[Simon]

Yep, there's a discussion about it here.

[Mr. Wang]

Originally Posted by Simon

Yep, there's a thread about it here.

Oh, my apologies, I learned of this information literally a minute ago and I panicked. How can I get rid of this thread now?

[Marlan35]

Thats scarry!! *cry*

[Mr. Wang]

Damn it, did the Mayans ever fortell of a 2011?