2010-09-03, 05:41 | Link #121 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Age: 34
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@Cub-sama - What did Hidan, Kakuzu and Deidara die doing that was so worth it? The first two are killed while they were wandering around (admittedly one resolved a character arc and the other gave us a taste of Rasenshuriken) and the latter died in a failed suicide bombing. Real worth it. Kisame killed himself to prevent valuable info being taken away from him. A meaningful death. Using Kisame, Madara planted a (potentially) long-term spy right nxt to a target, allowing for constant updates. Zetsu may not be able to do that. Or, he could be somewhere else, spying on someone. Two spies are better than one.
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2010-09-03, 06:04 | Link #123 | |
Member of DOLLARS
Artist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 28
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Hidan and Kakuzu killed Asuma, captured Niibi, killed the guy from the temple and gave us a taste of rasenshuriken and paved the way for some character development. Itachi scarred a major character and has been one of the biggest movers of the plot since the beginning as well giving Naruto some mysterious power. Nagato killed Jiraiya and Kakashi which pushed in some plot development for the both of them, set Naruto on his new path and more stuff I can't be bothered to write right now. Now Kisame's captured Yonbi by himself (good start) then he apparently died against Bee and the Raikage felt a bit wtf and short but IMO it was an okay fight, then it turns out he is actually alive and infiltrated Kumo (good). Then it goes downhill, his death didn't make for any character development, was short and IMO felt rushed, while the information could be very important it would've saved some trouble if you just got zetsu to do it.
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2010-09-03, 07:03 | Link #124 | |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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2010-09-03, 07:23 | Link #125 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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meh... this is actually one of the problems i have for both kishi and kubo... the fact that these flashbacks only come JUST BEFORE the character dies... the benefit of the flashbacks is that they can add an extra layer of depth to a character, but the whole point of giving them depth is almost lost if you kill them right away afterword. Depth can attach us more to a character and make the audience desire to see them in action a whole lot more...
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2010-09-03, 07:25 | Link #126 |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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True, but as James has repeatedly stated, Kisame has outlived his purpose as an Akatsuki member, so he had to die sometime soon....but killing a nobody would be a waste of many chapters in hindsight, so making his life meaningful also makes his death meaningful. It's poor writing that could have been handled better, but side characters are the toughest to find time to develop, and it could have been worse.
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2010-09-03, 08:38 | Link #127 | |
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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A character doesn't have to be alive to receive character development. Finding out aspects of a character just before or even after they've died is a totally legitimate way of storytelling. For villains, flashbacks often occur near death because that's when the readers' sympathy is at its peak. They are otherwise supposed to be totally unlikable. At least Kisame got a flashback though. Kakuzu and Hidan only got their histories mentioned in the databook ....
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2010-09-03, 09:52 | Link #129 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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and i got a few criticisms about Oda as well in this regard, which i will not go into detail here due to being spoilerific |
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2010-09-03, 11:18 | Link #130 |
Ino-Shika-Cho
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Aoba was right a few chapters ago. Why is every strong guy on that island so stupid? Did it not occur to anyone there that the scroll might be booby trapped? We saw trapped scrolls all the way back in the Forest of Death. They could have easily sent it back to Kumo or Konoha for analysis. Opening it there was just...really stupid. I know Gai, Naruto, Kirabi, and Aoba aren't geniuses, but I would have though more of Yamato. Oh well, Kishi wanted that info to reach Madara. And at least Kishi showed the drawback to Gai opening the gates.
Anyway. I believe Kishi wants us to feel some sympathy for all the Akatsuki, with the exception of Hidan, who was pretty much the only total evil scumbag out of the group. Even Kakuzu's backstory was that of a scorned shinobi.
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2010-09-03, 12:37 | Link #132 | |
Ha ha ha ha ha...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right behind you.
Age: 35
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2010-09-03, 12:57 | Link #133 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Naruto is nowhere near as bad as Bleach, though. In Bleach flashbacks seem to be the only way Kubo can give any depth to his characters. It seems as if he just can't be arsed.
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2010-09-03, 17:10 | Link #136 | |
Senior Member
Fansubber
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Slaping Mayuri Kurotsuchi around in Quincy Town :D
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2010-09-03, 20:49 | Link #137 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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It's just the way the author like to present his vilains, admitedly it's a bit repetitive but that's how he wants it : presenting them initially as completely evil sociopaths before showing that once upon a time they used to be regular people, before the ninja system they live in twisted them, often quite literally, into monsters. All the antagonists of this show, no matter how insane and vil, used to be regular ninja before the world transformed them into the living and flawed incarnations of the afflictions which plague their world. |
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2010-09-03, 21:16 | Link #138 | |
Inactive Member
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Deidara also didn't seem a product of his environment. Deidara was admired as a genius by Iwa. They still speak of him with respect. But he seemed to be mad from the beginning. Only caring about seeking greater aspirations for his "art". So he stole a forbidden ninjutsu(chakra infusion)and fled Iwa, turning into a terrorist. Some people are just bad eggs. |
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weekly chapter discussion |
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