AnimeSuki Forums

Sunder the Gold · 2013-03-30, 10:39

Passions and talents are different things.

Nanoha has a talent and passion for shooting, bombardment and flight magic. Hayate has a talent and passion for cooking.

Hayate has a talent for spells, but her passion is apparently to make a social difference within the known universe. She wants political power rather than combat power.

It's little different from how Yuuno could be an (even more) amazing combat mage if he spent all of his time training for battle, but his passion is to make a difference in the world through the acquistion and dissemination of knowledge.

That said, Yuuno must still train for combat, because he's that sort of person. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have been half the combat asset he was for the first two seasons. Physically protecting and supporting his loved ones is important to Yuuno.

I doubt that it would be different for Hayate, especially with the Wolkenritter for a family and security detail, and with Nanoha and Fate as friends.

By the time of StrikerS at least, Hayate should have gotten in enough practice that she could at least fight at the level her friends did at age 9, and probably better. This not accounting for the huge ritual spells that she alone can cast.

I believe that Hayate can achieve her Battle of Aces / Gears of Destiny level of competence, with bread-and-butter spells like Balmung and Claimoh Solais as well as "smaller" big spells like Ragnarok.

Indeed, what else would the TSAB be training her to DO, as a cadet? Even if she entered an officer training program as a cadet, the course would have to include lots of magical and combat training.

She's joining a semi-military operation and committing to following orders, after all. She can choose her branch of service, but THEY get to decide what to do with her after that.

And what the TSAB REALLY wants from her is a magical powerhouse. They have officiers to spare, already, and can easily get 50 more officiers from among the crop of low-magic or magicless recruits from the many administered worlds.

Keroko · 2013-03-30, 11:06

"she's an officer" was just an excuse to push Hayate to the sidelines. For whatever reason, someone in one of the big chairs at 7Arcs got cold feet at the idea of Hayate on the front lines.

Which is a shame, the PSP games show how much fun a combat Hayate is and I hope the 3rd movie takes a different approach.

Sunder the Gold · 2013-03-30, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

"she's an officer" was just an excuse to push Hayate to the sidelines. For whatever reason, someone in one of the big chairs at 7Arcs got cold feet at the idea of Hayate on the front lines.

Which is a shame, the PSP games show how much fun a combat Hayate is and I hope the 3rd movie takes a different approach.

Agreed on all count.

Quote:

the PSP games show how much fun a combat Hayate is

HAYATE: Headbutt Tackle!

ZAFIRA: Please, stop that!

Don't like how she wields that staff one-handed, though.

krisslanza · 2013-03-30, 13:21

I don't remember how the PSP games explain it, but I know her combat powers in that are a direct result of Reinforce being around longer, and her general health being better. It could be possible that Reinforce was needed to allow Hayate to easily control her magic.

Also, there is one difference between Knight's Clothing and Barrier Jackets. Clothing is weak, I think, as Knight's Armor is equal to Barrier Jackets. Mid-childan magic doesn't have a Knight's Clothing equivalent.

Akiyoshi · 2013-03-30, 13:33

Cari and Teana developed an illusion togheter in order to fool the numbers and get the realic they were trying to steal.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 13:36

Actually, that was Teana doing the illusion, Caro was giving her a "Boost Up".

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 14:04

That is true. Caro can summon living beings or chains but cast ilusions is something only Teana has been able to and, considering how much she suprise people with it, might as well be a rare skill for a mage. Not a Rare Skill, but that ilussion isn't the most use magic.

Keroko · 2013-03-30, 14:29

Yeah, it is an uncommon talent. Ginga went all starry-eyed in the manga when Teana mentioned she could do illusion magic.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 14:31

Which is why I think Teana is a Combat Cyborg magnet. XD

Sunder the Gold · 2013-03-30, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't remember how the PSP games explain it, but I know her combat powers in that are a direct result of Reinforce being around longer, and her general health being better. It could be possible that Reinforce was needed to allow Hayate to easily control her magic.

Except in the game, Hayate fights maybe ONE battle while Unisoned with Reinforce, and the rest of the time it's just her.

Reinforce taught Hayate how to use her spells, but the Wolkenritter and TSAB could have done the same.

Quote:

Also, there is one difference between Knight's Clothing and Barrier Jackets. Clothing is weak, I think, as Knight's Armor is equal to Barrier Jackets. Mid-childan magic doesn't have a Knight's Clothing equivalent.

From what I recall, Knight's Armor includes an auto-guard barrier defense that Barrier Jackets (and, presumably, Knight's Clothing) don't provide. Since Armed Devices can't auto-cast magic like Intelligent Devices.

When Fate and Signum have their duel in the desert, they dive each other and strike, with each having their blades turned aside by barries. Bardiche auto-cast Defenser for Fate, and Signum's Knight Armor protected her.

If Hayate's jacket lacks this quality, it would be equal to Midchildan barrier jackets rather than inferior. (It also means that Hayate lacks any form of auto-guard when not Unisoned.)

Enforcers like Chrono don't tend to use Intelligent Devices, but they should have sufficient combat training that they don't need an auto-guard. Nanoha didn't have any training at all, Fate had really poor defensive training, and the Wolkenritter are badass veteran powerhouses who can afford the tax of more expensive Armor while not turning their noses down at an extra layer of protection.

Perhaps Midchildan system has something like Knight's Armor, but we haven't seen it.

NorthernFallout · 2013-03-30, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Which is why I think Teana is a Combat Cyborg magnet. XD

This is when you realize she actually has a hidden door in her apartment leading to an inner sanctum filled with Cyborgs used for... questionable purposes.

"Subaru, I told you never to go in here... Now I have to... recalibrate... you a little..."

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

This is when you realize she actually has a hidden door in her apartment leading to an inner sanctum filled with Cyborgs used for... questionable purposes.

"Subaru, I told you never to go in here... Now I have to... recalibrate... you a little..."

Calibrations? Teana is Garrus?

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 14:44

Bah! I bet Sein spends more time in there than Subaru does.

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 14:45

Actually Barrier Jacket has at no point show inferior to Knight's Armor. They are both energy fields turn in to cloths and the strength of them depends of the mage but they are, in general, just there to explain how this people can break concrete walls and iron bars without having their bones turn in to pulp.

And for extra protection just see the Reactor Purge that Nanoha had on her own Barrier Jacket.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 14:46

Reactor Purge is an explosive burst, however, and not a barrier field. As for Signum's use of it, I thought she was in Knight's Garb as well?

Akiyoshi · 2013-03-30, 14:48

Considering Knight Clothing is old technology (and we're talking like centuries old here xDU) it'll make more sense for the Barrier Jackets to actually be an improvement over those.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 15:02

Knight Clothing is what the Wolkenritter have, it sacrifices defense to improve mobility.

Barrier Jackets are basically all-around good, though some, like Nanoha's is more defensive while Fate's is more mobile.

Knight Armor, on the other hand, is more defensive than the others, used primarily in war.

Sansker · 2013-03-30, 15:06

The problem I have with those is that, in the end, makes no sense talking about being heavy or allow mobility. They are energy, so you can make them as light as you want. I think lighter armor means they use less energy to create it but then again there is no need for it to look different.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-30, 15:11

Not necessarily. Caro's Barrier Jacket is optimized for speed, despite how many layers she's wearing.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-30, 15:12

It's not energy, Sansker.

If that was the case, then Nanoha, Vita, Teana, Subaru and Hayate would have all been back in civilian clothes and/or naked when the Cradle forcibly canceled all magic in StrikerS.

2013-03-30, 13:21	Link #3084
krisslanza Sleep beneath the flowers Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3 Age: 34	I don't remember how the PSP games explain it, but I know her combat powers in that are a direct result of Reinforce being around longer, and her general health being better. It could be possible that Reinforce was needed to allow Hayate to easily control her magic. Also, there is one difference between Knight's Clothing and Barrier Jackets. Clothing is weak, I think, as Knight's Armor is equal to Barrier Jackets. Mid-childan magic doesn't have a Knight's Clothing equivalent. __________________

2013-03-30, 13:33	Link #3085
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Cari and Teana developed an illusion togheter in order to fool the numbers and get the realic they were trying to steal. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-03-30, 13:36	Link #3086
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Actually, that was Teana doing the illusion, Caro was giving her a "Boost Up". __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-30, 14:04	Link #3087
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	That is true. Caro can summon living beings or chains but cast ilusions is something only Teana has been able to and, considering how much she suprise people with it, might as well be a rare skill for a mage. Not a Rare Skill, but that ilussion isn't the most use magic. __________________

2013-03-30, 14:31	Link #3089
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Which is why I think Teana is a Combat Cyborg magnet. XD __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-30, 10:39	Link #3081
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Passions and talents are different things. Nanoha has a talent and passion for shooting, bombardment and flight magic. Hayate has a talent and passion for cooking. Hayate has a talent for spells, but her passion is apparently to make a social difference within the known universe. She wants political power rather than combat power. It's little different from how Yuuno could be an (even more) amazing combat mage if he spent all of his time training for battle, but his passion is to make a difference in the world through the acquistion and dissemination of knowledge. That said, Yuuno must still train for combat, because he's that sort of person. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have been half the combat asset he was for the first two seasons. Physically protecting and supporting his loved ones is important to Yuuno. I doubt that it would be different for Hayate, especially with the Wolkenritter for a family and security detail, and with Nanoha and Fate as friends. By the time of StrikerS at least, Hayate should have gotten in enough practice that she could at least fight at the level her friends did at age 9, and probably better. This not accounting for the huge ritual spells that she alone can cast. I believe that Hayate can achieve her Battle of Aces / Gears of Destiny level of competence, with bread-and-butter spells like Balmung and Claimoh Solais as well as "smaller" big spells like Ragnarok. Indeed, what else would the TSAB be training her to DO, as a cadet? Even if she entered an officer training program as a cadet, the course would have to include lots of magical and combat training. She's joining a semi-military operation and committing to following orders, after all. She can choose her branch of service, but THEY get to decide what to do with her after that. And what the TSAB REALLY wants from her is a magical powerhouse. They have officiers to spare, already, and can easily get 50 more officiers from among the crop of low-magic or magicless recruits from the many administered worlds.

2013-03-30, 11:06	Link #3082
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	"she's an officer" was just an excuse to push Hayate to the sidelines. For whatever reason, someone in one of the big chairs at 7Arcs got cold feet at the idea of Hayate on the front lines. Which is a shame, the PSP games show how much fun a combat Hayate is and I hope the 3rd movie takes a different approach.

2013-03-30, 14:29	Link #3088
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Yeah, it is an uncommon talent. Ginga went all starry-eyed in the manga when Teana mentioned she could do illusion magic.

2013-03-30, 14:44	Link #3093
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Bah! I bet Sein spends more time in there than Subaru does. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-30, 14:45	Link #3094
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Actually Barrier Jacket has at no point show inferior to Knight's Armor. They are both energy fields turn in to cloths and the strength of them depends of the mage but they are, in general, just there to explain how this people can break concrete walls and iron bars without having their bones turn in to pulp. And for extra protection just see the Reactor Purge that Nanoha had on her own Barrier Jacket. __________________

2013-03-30, 14:46	Link #3095
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Reactor Purge is an explosive burst, however, and not a barrier field. As for Signum's use of it, I thought she was in Knight's Garb as well? __________________

2013-03-30, 14:48	Link #3096
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Considering Knight Clothing is old technology (and we're talking like centuries old here xDU) it'll make more sense for the Barrier Jackets to actually be an improvement over those. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-03-30, 15:02	Link #3097
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Knight Clothing is what the Wolkenritter have, it sacrifices defense to improve mobility. Barrier Jackets are basically all-around good, though some, like Nanoha's is more defensive while Fate's is more mobile. Knight Armor, on the other hand, is more defensive than the others, used primarily in war. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-30, 15:06	Link #3098
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	The problem I have with those is that, in the end, makes no sense talking about being heavy or allow mobility. They are energy, so you can make them as light as you want. I think lighter armor means they use less energy to create it but then again there is no need for it to look different. __________________

2013-03-30, 15:11	Link #3099
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Not necessarily. Caro's Barrier Jacket is optimized for speed, despite how many layers she's wearing. __________________

2013-03-30, 15:12	Link #3100
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	It's not energy, Sansker. If that was the case, then Nanoha, Vita, Teana, Subaru and Hayate would have all been back in civilian clothes and/or naked when the Cradle forcibly canceled all magic in StrikerS. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.