2008-03-10, 13:43 | Link #881 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Trouble with first season is that through all the fighting, they weren't trying to seriously harm each other. Nanoha wanted to pummel Fate into listening, and Fate just wanted to spook her into not getting in the way. Plus that was purely magical attacks in nature. 'Phasers Set to Stun.'
In A's however, the stakes went up when Vita kind of lost it and nearly killed Nanoha. And the Wolkenritter weren't exactly holding back for love nor money. Signum was most certainly in the fight to put Fate down after the counter-attack on Vita. |
2008-03-10, 13:45 | Link #882 | |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
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There are a few exceptions (Like Signum mentioning to Fate that she might not be able to stop her [Fate] without killing her).
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2008-03-10, 14:35 | Link #883 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Attempting and what acctually occures are two different things. Vita was most certainly going into Hammerziet on Nanoha. She's not exactly known for her Self Control. You can say all the stuff you want, but when backed into a corner, they fought full on... If that resulted in some killing... OOPS. Signum made that clear even if she expressed regret in doing so.
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2008-03-10, 15:10 | Link #884 | ||
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Join Date: May 2007
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For any kind of aimed fire, you want the gun to be as stable and supported as reasonably possible. Stocks, bipods and slings are all simple and reliable mechanical aids that can help with that. The need for stabilization holds true for any kind of ranged weapon. The less stable the weapon platform, the less accurate any fire from it will be.
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Last edited by Mirificus; 2008-03-10 at 15:28. |
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2008-03-10, 15:12 | Link #885 | |
The Dang-meister
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I just recently took a range course during the summer, and my shooting accuracy jumped from a lvl once i started using a sling, because the rifle was now being supported on my arm, via the sling :3
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2008-03-10, 15:23 | Link #886 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Amen as well to stablized firearms. Gotta have your weapons stable, or your bullets go everywhere but where you want them. I don't know how many rounds I fired using the wrong arm to pull my weapon into my shoulder, but half of them liked to be two meters off target... and all that from just a little fatigue wobble at 200 meters.
Once I realized I was using my supporting hand to pull my M-16 into my shoulder, and switched to my trigger hand, the fatigue was nixed and I qualified on that run. (I had like, four runs on qualification day, and botched most of them because I couldn't stay COMFORTABLE in the prone, or the barrel would wobble all over the place. Not exactly making it easy to figure out what's wrong either when it's 98 degrees F in high georgia humidity with a Drill shouting at you to "FIRE! FIRE! FIRE DAMMIT!" They thought I was scared to miss. I ain't scared to miss when I know I'll miss when the sights are off to the LEFT, the RIGHT, or just plain out of allignment.) |
2008-03-10, 16:13 | Link #887 | |
Wild card
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Finland
Age: 39
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...and i never found prone to be the problem when firing, it was crouching... standing was done at half range, so i never had a problem with that... and no one stands straight in a fire fight anyway, unless they intend to leave feet first...
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2008-03-10, 16:21 | Link #888 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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2008-03-10, 18:10 | Link #889 | ||||||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Looks pretty similar, don't you think? Quote:
A far better explanation for Signum to stay put is the intimidation effect it would bring, which is exactly what happened. Oh I get it, I just don't buy it. A veteran shocked to the point where they can't even move out of the way of a snails pace attack? Sounds rather unbelievable. Quote:
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But that's beside the point. At any rate, there is a clear sign that the defenser got broken. Note that when Signum strikes the defenser, she struck exactly where Bardiche's head was, when Yuuno found Fate, Bardiche's head was all battered up. Clearly the hit (a Shiden'Issen I might add, and a normal hit was already shown penetrating Fate's barrier later on) broke the barrer and hit Bardiche. Quote:
Also, I will once more (though I doupt you will even listen) point out that this is a magical girl anime. Now note that last word. In anime, many things happen that are not conform to the laws of physics, that's what makes them fun to watch to begin with. I'd like to argue that one, actuallly. In the manga it was stated that they did hold back a lot during the fights (which is supported by the fact that neither Signum, nor Vita, nor even zafira use their ultimate techniques untill the final fight). Last edited by Keroko; 2008-03-10 at 19:17. |
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2008-03-10, 19:01 | Link #890 | ||
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Yeah. Really. As Keroko keeps saying and as I keep trying to point out, this is a Magical Girl Anime. Thus, stadia ranging and frame timings are going to be inherently flawed due to Magical Girl anime conventions as well as one simple thing: technological limitations of anime. For another example, the Super Robot Wars games on GBA. You can have hugeass mecha and even bigger ships taking up the same space on the grid as the smallest grunt mecha. Why? Simplification and technological limitations of the platform. The same happens in anime; they need to cut production costs so they'll simplify as much as possible, which means that any timings/stadia ranging is inherently flawed. Also, regarding people surviving 400MPH impacts: when a body freefalls down it eventually reaches a speed of 200MPH. Barring unusual exceptions, when that happens to people, they die on impact when they hit the ground.
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2008-03-10, 19:01 | Link #891 | ||||
The Dang-meister
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In the program I took during the summer, there are four lvls of qualification, 1-4, with 4 being the highest. I walked away form that course with a lvl 4 qualifcation, although my shooting has probably by now degraded back down to a lvl 3, possibly due to a lvl 2 now because I haven't been on a range since then T.T Quote:
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The configuration of the sight on games is utterly different to what you see on a real sight. Plus, it's a computer screen. Secondly, even if you play a crap-load of real life ARCADE shooters, it's not going to prepare you for the real thing. The sights are not properly zeroed, the real things are way heavier than the arcade units, and most of all, RECOIL! It's going to leave a hell of a bruise if you're not ready for such impacts, compared to the taps that those shooters do.
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Last edited by ghazghkull; 2008-03-10 at 19:24. |
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2008-03-10, 23:59 | Link #892 | |
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There's a saying floating around. "It is said that marksmanship is as simple as aligning the sights and squeezing the trigger. It is also said that playing the piano is as simple as hitting the right notes in the right order." |
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2008-03-11, 00:03 | Link #893 | ||||||||||||||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Now look at PG. It is all encompassing. Do you see something resembling an opening to allow movement? If you see one, give me a screenshot. Thanks. Flip B around. As a close combat specialist, Signum needs a method to survive the long range encounter phases of combat ... even if it restricts movement. Quote:
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Slowing down is pinned down when they start having sounds. Try halving the speed of the playback one time and seeing what happens to all the sounds. That did not happen. So if you insist time manipulation took place, it must be the one without such sounds that yields the place of realtime. Quote:
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The problem with you ("you" in the group sense) is that you are inconsistent in whether you take the SoD perspective or not. A typical argument with Keroko, for example, goes like this: A: MGLN combat is close ranged (really trying not to look too closely). K: No it isn't! Look at EpX of Y. Nanoha shot at Vita, who was a dot in the sky! A: (Grabs frame; ranges) It was a 5px blob. The range is only about 100m, unless you want to insist on a zoom (but then no ranging is possible). K: It looks further than that to me. A: I did objective calcs. You used your subjective feelings. K: Urr (realizes he isn't winning that way). It doesn't count! It is only anime! Anime cannot be ranged! A: Then why the f*ck did you try to use "Vita is a dot" as an argument. Is it because all of a sudden, the conclusions of stadia ranging proved inconvenient? It is one or the other. Presumably, Magic&Tech thread means we actually try and use everything (what little there is) to analyze out something. Fine. Spoiler for Length:
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I don't even want to comment on Ace = superb range arguments... Quote:
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2008-03-11, 00:15 | Link #894 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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OBJECTION!
Ark is bringing excessive Lawyer Skills to the thread! Such excessive argumentive skills grossly overkill the combined argumentive skills of all other parties involved and are an argumentive mismatch. The INSANE party moves to have Ark discharged from the conversation until he can learn to tone the eloquently woven speach patterns down to managable levels. |
2008-03-11, 00:17 | Link #895 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Exactly, and it's interesting how Fate's jacket frays at the edges as it takes that magical damage. Especially if we contrast it to Nanoha getting nailed by Vita head-on in A's ep 1; the jacket takes limited damage, but near-total for the area effected, and Nanoha obviously took a good amount of damage as well. (Enough that her vision was going in and out, so that's a head injury, though whether that was an effect of the hit or of going through the wall afterwards is unclear.)
For similar reasons, I'm not sure we can count the IV shanking Nanoha. We know that the gadgets pack anti-magic field technology; maybe they go through barrier jackets more effectively than normal. (At the same time, we see Signum's barrier jacket/armor/whatever breached at least twice by sharp weapon attacks from Fate. Maybe jackets aren't good against "slicing"?) |
2008-03-11, 00:38 | Link #896 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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If I'm winning anyway, who knows? It might be because my position is fundamentally strong (though I might make a tactical misstep here and there) |
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2008-03-11, 01:08 | Link #897 | |
The Dang-meister
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Granted there are some things you can rationalize into real world physics. HOWEVER, there is only so much you can actually rationalize. The rest of it is bloody native to the ANIME! The physics, the rationalization, the way battles occur, it is relative, to the anime, and only the anime. Trying to bring real-world physics into a make-believe world that has its own rules and properties of physics just doesn't work. It's like your matter and anti-matter, or your AC and DC. They equal no-no!
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2008-03-11, 01:25 | Link #898 |
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Alright, alright, ENOUGH.
Jesus, this was just a discussion on whether fields have antikinetic properties. Now, as I said before, the general idea was that the field could be set to repel HV rounds which travel faster than beams, hence beam combat and melee would be viable because they'd be slower than the HV and wouldn't be caught by the anti HV field. This is a guess, a logical guess. (I am well aware that a wrong conclusion can be obtained logically from a flawed perspective.) I personally think it's more likely that the barrier on the BJ is what provides most of the protection; in Episode 4 of StrikerS, where Erio scuffs Nanoha's BJ, she says that he penetrated the jacket and hit the fabric... With regards to the stadia ranging: I was trying to point out, Ark, that stadia ranging is inherently flawed. You'll note that when I mentioned Vice and sniping the drones on the cradle, I was trying to make a point to you on ranges and how we cannot get hard figures, but guess. To continue, ark, 7arcs makes h-games. Their understanding of physics are already off-track! H-games. Where the money shots involve guy cumming and emitting more sperm, more jism, more white stuff, more seed of his loins, more little soldiers, than is humanly possible. This cannot be reconciled to reality. I'm not going so far as to say that real-world physics don't compute to anime. But it's foolish to keep forcing reality onto an inherently unrealistic medium. NOW, EVERYONE, PAY ATTENTION. Emotions are running too high in this thread. I am therefore calling for a 36 hour timeout on Magitech. No posts. No replies. No mentions to it. Time out begins at 1500 GMT +8 / 0700 GMT / 0300 EST, or 35 minutes from now. Take this time to step back and cool down.Then come back and post. EDIT: 1435 (GMT+8): This means that you can post from now until 1500, fellas. Get your last shots in if you will. Cadians, I'll see you in the homeland.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2008-03-11 at 01:38. |
2008-03-11, 01:36 | Link #899 | |||||
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See you in 36. Out. |
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2008-03-12, 19:08 | Link #900 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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I can write some replies while at work, but nothing that involves frame analysis. In the meantime, you can take a look at some stuff I whipped up during the Cease-Fire: http://arkhangelsk.onlinewebshop.net...transonic.html Index Page: http://arkhangelsk.onlinewebshop.net/ Tell me if you can even get into the site. Some people swear they can't... Oh, and yes, the cease fire has ended a few hours ago. 3AM today. Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2008-03-12 at 19:22. |
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