Did Jiraiya Betray the Leaf?

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

I was watching some of the older episodes. The difference between the first time I watched them and now is that now I have a good grasp of Jiraiya and his capability.

As I watch the older episodes it feels like Jiraiya betrayed Konoha.

The 3'rd knew things were getting bad in Konoha, and that Orochimaru was the spearhead. It was made explicitly clear with the 3rds discussion with Anko that he was looking for Jiraiya. Even Ebisu mentioned to Jiraiya that the third was asking for him.

Jiraiya undoubtedly knew that Oro was upto something. He may have not known any of the details but he had to have known trouble was brewing and Oro was behind it. (This is the same guy who had all the juicy info on Akatsuki when everyone else was blind)

He was always openly walking around the streets in Konoha. Yet, when the moment came, Jiraiya didnt answer. In my opinion he more or less let the third die. The third was old and it should have been Jiraiya's responsibility to confront Oro. He should have not ingnored when the third was asking for him.

Granted Jiraiya probably has a slight grudge against the third because he was always praising Oro at his expense. However that was harmless, and very similar to the way Kakashi is always ruffling Naruto's feathers with comments about how he should be like Sasuke.

People always draw similarities between Naruto and Jiraiya, but if If Kakashi and Konoha were in trouble, Naruto would not hesitate to lend a helping hand.

Here is the exact conversation between Ebisu and Jiraiya on the roof-top. It clearly shows that Both Jiraiya and Ebisu (representing konoha) knew that Orchimaru was up to no good and about to cause trouble for Konoha.

Jiraiya : Sorry Ebisu. I stole one of your students.
Ebisu: : : Not at all. But im surprised... Hokage-sama has been searching for you, but could not determine where you were at all. And it turns out that your in this village. Hokage-sama will be pleased.
Jiraiya : Did you tell the third about me?
Ebisu: No , not yet.
Jiraiya : I see... lets leave it that way.
Ebisu: (distressed) : Does this have to do with Orochimaru?
Jiraiya (lazy voice) : No im sorry but it doesnt. I just visited this place to get ideas for my novel. I dont want to butt into troublesome messes.
Ebisu: (Pissed off): What are you talkign about !? You should already know! To stop Orochimaru, the one praised as one of the legendary sannin... we need another person from the legendary sannin .. You!
Ebisu: (Pleading voice): Jiraiya-sama!
Jiraiya : ... Blank stare.

Notice too that Jiraiya did not even put aside his pride to make a formal appearance and pay respects at the thirds funeral. He just lay hidden in the background. Some will say that is his "Style" but I think he also felt a bit of shame for not answering an obvious call for help when the third asking for him.

[7hor]

He did wipe out that huge summon didn't he? Jiraiya wasn't at the stadium, Sarutobi was, I feel like Jiraiya could done more, but its just a show, I don't think its meant for him to be a 'bad' character, not sure though, interesting point.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Originally Posted by 7hor

He did wipe out that huge summon didn't he? Jiraiya wasn't at the stadium, Sarutobi was, I feel like Jiraiya could done more, but its just a show, I don't think its meant for him to be a 'bad' character, not sure though, interesting point.

Indeed he wiped out the summon. But that was somewhat trivial compared to the fact that if he had answered the thirds calls for help when he was asking for him, he would very probably have been sitting right beside him at the chuunin exam arena and Oro would have had his whole plan backfire.

[7hor]

If the leaf would have known they were going to attack (which they should have =P) then I think Jiraiya would have been there. If anything Jiraiya is busy peeping, too troublesome to be protecting konoha :P I'm just not sure if they knew the details of the attack, maybe Jiraiya would have acted differently had he known. I don't think Sarutobi wanted a personal body guard, and he might have had faith in the 3rd that he is still strong enough to take oro down. Hard to say, but yea Jiraiya probably could have helped kick Oros ass with the 3rd.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Originally Posted by 7hor

If the leaf would have known they were going to attack (which they should have =P) then I think Jiraiya would have been there. If anything Jiraiya is busy peeping, too troublesome to be protecting konoha :P I'm just not sure if they knew the details of the attack, maybe Jiraiya would have acted differently had he known. I don't think Sarutobi wanted a personal body guard, and he might have had faith in the 3rd that he is still strong enough to take oro down. Hard to say, but yea Jiraiya probably could have helped kick Oros ass with the 3rd.

They had a flat out meeting with all the jounins. The 3rd told them that whatever happened they would fight to the end. There were ANBU everywhere during the chuunin exam. The third had even worn his badboy Ninja suit under his Hokage suit. They definitely knew something big was going to happen. No doubt about that.

I edited my first post and included the full conversation with Ebisu. It should make it clear that both parties were very well aware of the situation.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

They had a flat out meeting with all the jounins. The 3rd told them that whatever happened they would fight to the end. There were ANBU everywhere during the chuunin exam. The third had even worn his badboy Ninja suit under his Hokage suit. They definitely knew something big was going to happen. No doubt about that.

I edited my first post and included the full conversation with Ebisu. It should make it clear that both parties were very well aware of the situation.

Good choice of words: "Bad boy ninja suit"..lolz.

I simply think that this is an instance that Kishimoto didn't want the viewers/readers to pull shakespear analysis in the show.

I agree with you that Jiairyai in the sense of declining to the summon of help betrayed the leaf. However, the show seems to convey the sense that Jiairyai is a good character despite that. It feels like that Kishomoto wants us to disregard that little act.

Or it could be simply that Jiairyai was at the time scouting the Akatakishi 9 at the moment of the tournament and arrived back to find that all hell broke loose.

EPYON

[7hor]

Well I know what ya mean but what can you expect out of 1 person, to personally watch everyone's back constantly. I think he still respected the 3rds abilities and if he knew he was fighting Oro, would still think the 3rd could handle it. and what epyon said

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Epyon.
I edited my first post to include the conversation between Ebisu and Jiraiya.

Its not easy to say ingore it when an entire scene was dedicated to Jiraiyas decision.

[epyon96]

yep yep I saw it.

I just immediately draw the conclusion that Jiairyai is a lazy ass who likes porn more than fighting. It fits his character.

EPYON

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Originally Posted by epyon96

yep yep I saw it.

I just immediately draw the conclusion that Jiairyai is a lazy ass who likes porn more than fighting. It fits his character.

EPYON

Heheh Shikamaru is a lazy ass as well but he was willing to sacrifice himself to help his friends when they were chasing gaara ^^

[Shay]

You have obviously thought this threw, i bet you have an answer for anythink.
So all ill say is that, he turned up late, and all that was left for him to do was take out the giant snake that was killing leaf ninjas left right and centre, i mean its the least he could do, i think Ibiki told him all hell had broke loose at the stadium, and with Jiraiya's vast knowledge of Oro, he prolly knew that he would not be able to interfere with the fight between Oro and Saratubi, i mean he knew Oro would make it so no one could join in.
So conclusion.....the dude was late

Edit: Thats just MY conclusion. Sorry

[dnmt]

Jiraiya is a vagabond, not a traitor.

[Zek]

We know he showed up late, and maybe he wasn't in Konoha when it started, but that's irrelevant. All the higher-ups definitely knew that something would happen at the Chuunin exam, and Jiraya himself knew that there was danger of Oro attacking Konoha. Ebisu flat out told him as much and Jiraya basically just said it wasn't any of his business. If he had really been interested in helping Konoha, he could easily have been at the tournament and saved the third.

[Shay]

AND! He had the cheek to do a little dance on that frog!
Come to think of it Jiraiya sucks ass!

[7hor]

Do we know what Jiraiya was doing? Maybe he was gathering info, or I'm confusing stuff in my mind =P He wasn't at the final stage of the exam for who knows what reason, perhaps he was helping konoha...or I forgot a bunch of stuff

[Roninblues]

While i seriously doubt J could have saved the third (force field thing, you know this..). The fact that they didn't know Kazekage was Oro, or that Sarutobi was the target, you can't ask Jiraiya to puppy guard the third. Also, there's a long history with J and Oro. Facing a past commrade would make anyone hesitate.

[pathyfinder]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Heheh Shikamaru is a lazy ass as well but he was willing to sacrifice himself to help his friends when they were chasing gaara ^^

Shika is in a different time of his life:

Shika One faked that he was asleep, and that was most likely a good thing

Two, didn't want to go but Pakkun took him anyways (doggie grasping bite on hand and flew him away)

Three, a "A MISSION" by Kakashi.

Jiraiya hung around and in doing so helped, those snakes could of leveled the city.

He had no more or less information regarding Oro's location than anyone else.

I also doubt the third would of placed Jiraiya right behind him. I think he would of had him do just what he did and hang back and observe letting no one, including ORO know, that Jiraiya was around.

[Lost World]

Jiraiya can't betray something he isn't apart of anymore.

You seem to be forgetting that none of the Sannin wear the Konoha headband anymore. None of them are really affiliated with Konoha nor do they have any responsbility to it.

I still think something big happened in their pasts to make them abandon their villages that we just don't know of yet.

Besides, The third always praised Oro over Jiraiya. If he has a grudge, it can be sympathized with.

[Kayess]

Simply put, NO!

Why would the council ask him to be Godaime if he betrayed the village? Wouldn't they come to the same conclusions as you? I know I did think that for a second but then realised I was a moron for thinking that. Kakashi specifically pointed out that for the level of danger that Konoha was in, there should have been MORE anbu in the stadium, yet he then concludes they must be out gathering information. Sandaime DID expect an attack, however just because he expected an attack in the future doesn't mean he expected it in the third exam. For example, most people when they unsure whether or not the "big test" is tommorow or not, and no one else knows, they will study and prepare for the tommorow. This is just like Sandaime suiting up in his bitchin' ninja gear.

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by Lost World

Jiraiya can't betray something he isn't apart of anymore.

You seem to be forgetting that none of the Sannin wear the Konoha headband anymore. None of them are really affiliated with Konoha nor do they have any responsbility to it.

Bingo!

In that sense, though, one can argue by abandoning their affiliation, the Sannins technical "betrayed" to Leaf village, but the three have done so much for the village already that it is hard to say they are defectors.

Originally Posted by Lost World

Besides, The third always praised Oro over Jiraiya. If he has a grudge, it can be sympathized with.

Yah. It's sad, really. Jiraiya understood the delicate relationship between Oro and Sarutobi...so he left them alone to sort things out (that and he didn't think the 3rd would fall to Oro). It's not like the flame barrier is that easy to get into, but this is Jiraiya we are talking about...had he really wanted to intervene, he probably could have. That's just my speculation.