(CR) Saint Seiya Omega

[Goty]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If you say LC is generic, then things like Hades Inferno & Elysion is pathetic by comparison. Still frames everywhere, no dynamic animation on LC level, cheesier dialogues than LC that will make even the most generic shounen blush, story filled with a lot more plot holes than LC, uninteresting villains, I could go on and on. Also, LC has actual story that not revolve around selling toys like Omega S2. And I’ll say this again, the animation in Hades Inferno & Elysion is just sad. You can pick any episode of LC and chances are it has more dynamic animation & movements than the whole Inferno & Elysion combined (and to think that both are OVAs which should have the same level of animation just make me LOL even more). The only good things about Hades Inferno & Elysion is that it’s based on Kurumada’s original story and still retain the old artwork of the characters which many SS fans like and that’s it.

...who was even talking about animation?
You talk as if LC wasn't made to sell, just for artistic purposes. Its goal wasn't different from any other spin-off, presenting SS to a newer audience.
Everything else is completely subjective.

Different art style doesn’t mean it’s generic, it’s just that, different. Hell, if you ask me, the character artwork in Gundam SEED is generic as hell (Hirai-face) but that series is so much a financial success that it eclipse other anime series & franchises. Proves you that “generic art style” doesn’t make or break a show.

You got it wrong, generic means it's NOT different. I'm very picky when it comes to run-of-the-mill art style, and Lost Canvas' art looks like it came from a "how to draw manga" manual, especially the anime. Seriously, put a Pegasus cloth on the main character from any random LN adaptation and he can easily pass as Tenma.

Hisashi Hirai's art style is anything but generic, it's his very distinct style. I don't even like it, but the point is that you can recognize his designs from miles away. Same for Kurumada, Okada or Umakoshi. Lost Canvas lacks that personality, because Teshirogi, let's be honest here, will never be a renowned mangaka. And the anime botched it anyway (to be fair, it was the same TMS staff that ruined Zetman).

LC is just that: underrated like many good-but-underrated movies and TV series out there (for example, Joss Whedon’s Firefly TV series which got cancelled despite its good story & characters).

Going by that logic nothing is ever bad, stuff flops because it's 'underrated". That's your opinion, i think it got what it deserved.
Firefly still managed to get a solid fanbase that made a movie happen, Lost Canvas was just cancelled. Heck, the 2nd season was just now released here due to the disappointing sales of the 1st one.

[AkitoW013]

Spoiler for 87:

This episode was excellent, the music for AE was beautiful and the animation was good, it was near perfect for me ! I have no complaints this week. 10/10

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Goty

...who was even talking about animation?

I’m talking more than just animation in my post that you quoted.

Originally Posted by Goty

You talk as if LC wasn't made to sell, just for artistic purposes. Its goal wasn't different from any other spin-off, presenting SS to a newer audience.

It was, but they don’t compromise the story just to make the cloth looks better to sell the action-figures.

Originally Posted by Goty

Everything else is completely subjective.

One of the objective parts is the animation (dynamic animation vs. still frames) that you just brushed off.

Originally Posted by Goty

You got it wrong, generic means it's NOT different. I'm very picky when it comes to run-of-the-mill art style, and Lost Canvas' art looks like it came from a "how to draw manga" manual, especially the anime. Seriously, put a Pegasus cloth on the main character from any random LN adaptation and he can easily pass as Tenma.

Hisashi Hirai's art style is anything but generic, it's his very distinct style. I don't even like it, but the point is that you can recognize his designs from miles away. Same for Kurumada, Okada or Umakoshi. Lost Canvas lacks that personality, because Teshirogi, let's be honest here, will never be a renowned mangaka. And the anime botched it anyway (to be fair, it was the same TMS staff that ruined Zetman).

It doesn’t matter if it’s looks good enough and actually represent the original material to some degree (LC OVA is an adaptation anyway). Simple design like Crayon Shin-chan & Kobo-chan can be recognized from the moon but that doesn’t mean it’s pleasing to the eye. What’s wrong with aiming to draw characters just good enough to serve the story but not bad enough to turn off the audience/readers? Like I said, generic art style doesn’t make or break a show.

Originally Posted by Goty

Going by that logic nothing is ever bad, stuff flops because it's 'underrated". That's your opinion, i think it got what it deserved.
Firefly still managed to get a solid fanbase that made a movie happen, Lost Canvas was just cancelled. Heck, the 2nd season was just now released here due to the disappointing sales of the 1st one.

No, there are genuinely terrible ones like Pluto Nash, Meet the Spartans, Scary Movie, Epic Movie, and million others which have abysmal story and almost zero intelligence. Some of them flops like they deserved, yet some others made more money than Oscar-worthy movies (and some of those terrible movies has fans of its own). Financial success simply doesn’t equal quality.


EDIT:
Oh, and I forgot to mention this:

Originally Posted by Goty

...who was even talking about animation?

You was (even if it's just implied):

Originally Posted by Goty

Unlike what you think, i say Lost Canvas lacks the 'heart' that characterized the Saint Seiya franchise, in every regard.

So you did address everything, and animation is clearly included when you’re talking about anime. So, are you saying that dynamic animation doesn't characterized Saint Seiya franchise, but lame animation & still frames do?

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by AkitoW013

Spoiler for 87:

This episode was excellent, the music for AE was beautiful and the animation was good, it was near perfect for me ! I have no complaints this week. 10/10

Just that? What happens?

[Galaxian]

According the ep88 summary, Hyperion survived the Athena Exclamation.

Ep88 full preview:

[hamazura]

goodbye hyperion, nice to meet you pinky boy

----
>LC was made by Ufotable studio
>the gold saints are epic as fuck, i dont even care about tenma
>pandora

thats enough reason for me to choose LC as my fav ss series

[Ozuma]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Oh really? I’ve never seen you criticizing Omega S2’s faults as strong as me .

Because unlike you I'm not overly picky over faults on Omega's season 2 like you did here on page 173

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You want some examples? Here you go:

Spoiler for Some screenshots:

This pic has not been altered in any way outside of some cropping. Her face and body does look strange that way.


Their eyes don’t even drawn on the same lines. Ugh..




And the derpy-face award goes to..... this close-up shot



This one is not that bad, but somehow made me burst in laughter the moment I saw it.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Please note that almost all of those face-shots are taken from still-frames (meaning the characters don’t move much, if not at all). So there’s absolutely no excuse of “derpy faces because of rapid movements”. Bottomline: derpy faces are derpy, crappy character designers are crappy. Shame on them.

I can give you more examples, if you insist.

And this is just about derpy faces during still-frames. Don’t get me started on other issues in the awful animation.

....Yup definitely weren't talking about animation/facial expression

Who the hell is complaining about “consistent facial expression” in this episode? If you can, quote my post where I have ever said it. If you can’t, then don’t bother.

*points to above quote of yours*

You are flip flopping like crazy dude.

Originally Posted by hamazura

actually LC is underrated, and i like that shit more than this omega s2 masterpiece actually i dont like this masterpiece at all

LC is underrated in terms of critics, fanwise it's loved a lot.

shaina > pandora is your opinion dude, my opinion is backwards haha pls dont force ur opinion to other people.

No duh, I was being playful with versus talk of Shaina and Pandora.

why do u always respond to my critiCS?

It's called a forum guy. Meaning, I can respond to whoever I want.

Ozuma if i was you i gona stop that why you cant force them to like it they dont like it anymore why is toei fault make main character more like side character. all story focus only in subaru and ignore all main character.

I'm not trying to force anybody to liking anything dude. I'm simply stating this and that and pointing out the flaws in the critique of people and correcting people on some points.

toei make super mistake subaru steal all badass and story

It's not just Subaru it's characters from the old series as well. That was a mistake since season 2 is meant to give back to old fans.

Originally Posted by Kazu-Kun

We were talking about the second season. I thought that was clear enough.

Not saying I'm slow or shit, but it being the internet I can't be as accurately identifying of which and what season you speak about.

On LC versus Omega comparison: lease guys I see enough of that abhorrent shit on tumblr do we really need to bring it to the discussion? LC got taken off the air and is second place because it can't connect with people who aren't familiar with the old series.

Spoiler:

Look, LC was an adult series and wasn't multi-audience targeting. Omega is. Hell, current Seiya VA Tohru Furuya even says Omega is returning the Saint Seiya franchise to the limelight.

If anyone knows anything regarding the thought-patterns of both American and Japanese network companies then you would know how shows with violent, sexual themed content has been cracked down on. LC and the classic series has plenty of it and thus there would be two version- a censored and uncensored version.

If that is an impossibility or something that the makers or show don't want then we see it OVA-styled and those are something that come out after a certain length of time. Hell, if it doesn't then that means it's in hiatus or not something that will happen.

So in a nutshell, its shows like Omega that are mainstreamed are the successful ones since they target varied audiences and not just a single one as LC.

Anyways enough of that:

On the episode

loved it

8.5 out of 10

The music during

Spoiler:

the Athena Exclamation

is just boss sauce

Liketh the music heard reminds me of the awesome music when Rhadamanthys beats down Aiolia, Mu and Milo in Hades Sanctuary.

[Galaxian]

The song that plays was Stardust Chant if I'm not mistaken.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Ozuma

Because unlike you I'm not overly picky over faults on Omega's season 2 like you did here on page 173

....Yup definitely weren't talking about animation/facial expression

*points to above quote of yours*

You are flip flopping like crazy dude.

Wat? We were talking about episode 86 and you suddenly jump back to episode 85?

Have you not read what I said?:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Who the hell is complaining about “consistent facial expression” in this episode?

"This episode" refers to Episode 86 that I was talking about at the time. You suddenly brought back episode 85 in discussion about episode 86. Way to derail the discussion.

And my complaining about derpy faces in episode 85 is not off-mark at all, simply because it’s there for all people to see in glorious still-frames and close-ups (the audience can’t even ignore those derpy faces even if they want and try to ).

[Ozuma]

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

The majority is talking about the recent episode you and me were talking about the SS Omega is general. You accused me of being too lenient on Omega and used yourself as an example of criticizing more harshly and properly. I used your post to point out that criticism of things like the art was off. Yes, it's your opinion and whatever how you feel regarding the show BUT all I'm doing is (like Goty and others) merely offering some friendly advice of what was off about your critique on things like ep 85.

[xellos2099]

[QUOTE=Ozuma;4981458]Because unlike you I'm not overly picky over faults on Omega's season 2 like you did here on page 173

....Yup definitely weren't talking about animation/facial expression



*points to above quote of yours*

You are flip flopping like crazy dude.



LC is underrated in terms of critics, fanwise it's loved a lot.







No duh, I was being playful with versus talk of Shaina and Pandora.



It's called a forum guy. Meaning, I can respond to whoever I want.



I'm not trying to force anybody to liking anything dude. I'm simply stating this and that and pointing out the flaws in the critique of people and correcting people on some points.



It's not just Subaru it's characters from the old series as well. That was a mistake since season 2 is meant to give back to old fans.



Not saying I'm slow or shit, but it being the internet I can't be as accurately identifying of which and what season you speak about.

On LC versus Omega comparison: lease guys I see enough of that abhorrent shit on tumblr do we really need to bring it to the discussion? LC got taken off the air and is second place because it can't connect with people who aren't familiar with the old series.

Spoiler:

Look, LC was an adult series and wasn't multi-audience targeting. Omega is. Hell, current Seiya VA Tohru Furuya even says Omega is returning the Saint Seiya franchise to the limelight.

If anyone knows anything regarding the thought-patterns of both American and Japanese network companies then you would know how shows with violent, sexual themed content has been cracked down on. LC and the classic series has plenty of it and thus there would be two version- a censored and uncensored version.

If that is an impossibility or something that the makers or show don't want then we see it OVA-styled and those are something that come out after a certain length of time. Hell, if it doesn't then that means it's in hiatus or not something that will happen.

So in a nutshell, its shows like Omega that are mainstreamed are the successful ones since they target varied audiences and not just a single one as LC.

Anyways enough of that:

On the episode

loved it

8.5 out of 10

The music during

Spoiler:

the Athena Exclamation

is just boss sauce

Liketh the music heard reminds me of the awesome music when Rhadamanthys beats down Aiolia, Mu and Milo in Hades Sanctuary.

You know, LC doesn't have anything to do with the old series until the very very end, the last bit with Youma. On the other hand, omega is marketed as sequel to the original saint seiya, it is i not lc not connecting to the new audience. And I have to disagree, there is not really that much violence and sex theme in LC; I mean there is plenty of violence on Omega too. It like i dunno why LC doesn;t sell well while omega does. Granted Omega havwe it strong point buit it is not now atm.

[Ozuma]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Have you not read what I said?

I have and you're being stubborn and citing your complaint about the derpy faces in episode 85 being the majorities thought is ignorant.

You think that? Cool, not everyone else does.

And my complaining about derpy faces in episode 85 is not off-mark at all

See?

Hamazura, this is an example of pushing your opinions on others.

With respect guy, but if that's so how come you're the only one suggesting the derpy faces in episode 85 is only being mentioned by you? If anything episode 54 is gets more reactions if Goty and other people went

[Ozuma]

You know, LC doesn't have anything to do with the old series until the very very end, the last bit with Youma.

You see that theory on SaintSeiya.wikia.com about Ikki possibly being a reincarnation of Hades spectres? Shit seem real awesome and probabaly's plausible.

And I have to disagree, there is not really that much violence and sex theme in LC; I mean there is plenty of violence on Omega too. It like i dunno why LC doesn;t sell well while omega does. Granted Omega havwe it strong point buit it is not now atm.

Sex is undoubtedly something that is non-existent in prequels like SS LC and SS overall. However, violence is something nearly always there. Also IIRC There's some scene like Virgo Asmita being meditating by some waterfall of blood.

Omega's violence is pretty much downplayed and not so present. Yes, there's things like Aria's death, however, we don't see much blood in it and that's what most shows who aren't marketed towards children get.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Ozuma

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

The majority is talking about the recent episode you and me were talking about the SS Omega is general. You accused me of being too lenient on Omega and used yourself as an example of criticizing more harshly and properly. I used your post to point out that criticism of things like the art was off. Yes, it's your opinion and whatever how you feel regarding the show BUT all I'm doing is (like Goty and others) merely offering some friendly advice of what was off about your critique on things like ep 85.

I was talking about episode 86 all the way. The only exception was when I was talking Omega in general in response to Hamazura (and later, Goty), not you.

My criticism about the derpy faces in episode 85 is not off. The faces I used as examples are indeed derpy (as you can see yourself in my post that you quoted above). It’s a solid criticism just like criticizing food which isn't done properly (maybe with too much salt or too much sugar in it). Or do you still argue that those are properly-drawn faces? If so, then let’s agree to disagree, and stop this argument right now.

[Ozuma]

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Yeah, though you talked about the derpy faces and said my suggestion of the episode 54 one wasn't as much.

Or do you still argue that those are properly-drawn faces?

I'm saying the episode 85 derpy face could be worse. Episode 54 is an example just going to the straight terrible zone. Nearly everyone on page 173 'was like "lol" and "wtf" and don't get me started on how people on tumblr felt towards it.

[hamazura]

btw fuudo is so fucking weak. i expect much of him. he bullied kouga and friends without even wearing a cloth. and now? pff...

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Ozuma

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Yeah, though you talked about the derpy faces and said my suggestion of the episode 54 one wasn't as much.

I'm saying the episode 85 derpy face could be worse. Episode 54 is an example just going to the straight terrible zone. Nearly everyone on page 173 'was like "lol" and "wtf" and don't get me started on how people on tumblr felt towards it.

Did you forget AGear2Ax & Galaxian's reply to that post of yours?:

Originally Posted by AGear2Ax

A moment that last less than a second. That's not something everybody will spot, watching the ep for the first time. In the other hand, Ep 85, showed those errors for a longer time, and even at the beginning of the ep.

Originally Posted by Galaxian

That image last less than a second. If you want to really see horrid animation go watch episode 67

So yeah, you're right that it's indeed terrible, but again, it's only last less than a second in the actual animation (note that normally, people don't watch anime by freezing it frame-by-frame). Episode 85 still has bigger problems which many derpy faces that last more than a second in still-frames and close-ups for all audience to clearly see.

[AGear2Ax]

Originally Posted by Ozuma

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Yeah, though you talked about the derpy faces and said my suggestion of the episode 54 one wasn't as much.

I'm saying the episode 85 derpy face could be worse. Episode 54 is an example just going to the straight terrible zone. Nearly everyone on page 173 'was like "lol" and "wtf" and don't get me started on how people on tumblr felt towards it.

Can we stop the pointless arguing about the derpy faces? Seriously, this thread is filling with arguing about that...

And also, I read page 173 a few minutes ago and it isn't like how you describe it. At least for me, you have lost credibility, so, it will not be wise to continue this topic with that taint on your credibility. Conclusion, let the topic die, and you too Obelisk, because to argue pointlessly, it is needed at least two people...

Originally Posted by Goty

You talk as if LC wasn't made to sell, just for artistic purposes. Its goal wasn't different from any other spin-off, presenting SS to a newer audience.
Everything else is completely subjective.

I was trying to explain that... Obviously the publishers, producers, etc, were trying to milk the SS franchise with LC, and doing marketing and sell, but the author (writer and illustrator) didn't do a good job making LC to sell well, they were making it as if it were art or a public fanfiction (It depends on how you see it).

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Just that? What happens?

Read page 178, but to sum it up, Hyperion was way too powerful for the gold saints and three of them resorted to use Athena's exclamation with a fatal backfire.

Originally Posted by Galaxian

According the ep88 summary, Hyperion survived the Athena Exclamation.

They say that? Hyperion doesn't appear in the preview and I heard Aegeon instead of Hyperion lol

Originally Posted by hamazura

btw fuudo is so fucking weak. i expect much of him. he bullied kouga and friends without even wearing a cloth. and now? pff...

I don't want to revive an old topic, but this is a issue of power inconsistencies. And it seems that next episode, Miller turns out to be more powerful than Gallia and he doesn't even have a heavenly sword or a powerful chronotector. (Maybe, the class-1 pallasites are only powerful thanks to their chronotector and sword, and not because of their own cosmo)

[Ozuma]

@Obelisk and Agear2Ax

If it's really something not "everybody" will spot then how come it was spotted and immediately posted on tumblr?

Also Obelisk are you seriously going to say these:

from this post

Spoiler for Some screenshots:

This pic has not been altered in any way outside of some cropping. Her face and body does look strange that way.


Their eyes don’t even drawn on the same lines. Ugh..




And the derpy-face award goes to..... this close-up shot



This one is not that bad, but somehow made me burst in laughter the moment I saw it.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

is worse than this:



You can at least look in awe and with tension at the image when Gallia is preparing for Paradox and Integra's assault in those collection of screenshots. You can LMAO from that incredibly badly drawn scene in ep 54 (hell most of the folks I know did and a dedicated SS fan I know on another forum's first post in the SS O thread during that episode was putting up the picture I just posted).

[Ozuma]

Originally Posted by AGear2Ax

Can we stop the pointless arguing about the derpy faces? Seriously, this thread is filling with arguing about that...

And also, I read page 173 a few minutes ago and it isn't like how you describe it.

I was over-exaggerating some. Also I was referring to Nishimonkai, Sugetsu's tirade, Goty pointing out how the classic series also being filled with bad art in response to the "art topic".

At least for me, you have lost credibility, so, it will not be wise to continue this topic with that taint on your credibility.

So it's a lost of credibility pointing out the people who were letting off steam after showing that pic? Also as I pointed out there was a on tumblr when someone posted that.

I don't want to revive an old topic, but this is a issue of power inconsistencies. And it seems that next episode, Miller turns out to be more powerful than Gallia and he doesn't even have a heavenly sword or a powerful chronotector.

We haven't seen the full power of Gallia so you can't really say it's "power inconsistency". I mean he was prepared to go all out against Ikki until Europa stepped in. Also as he said in his debut episode "He's not a Pallasite".