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Mjay · 2013-12-27, 02:30

I was happy with Matt Smiths send off, it was very fitting. Was the story more convoluted that it had to be? Yes but that's what makes Who, Who sometimes. If I've learned anything from Moffet's Who any "rules" they create are only made so they can break them later and how they break and change them is the journey that is Doctor Who. The last few special episodes have done their job for what they represented. The Name of the Doctor was the farewell to River and the friendships that 11 had built The Day of the Doctor worked very well as a anniversary special. I didn't like it as much for an episode of that season but worked well for what it was intended for. The Time of the Doctor was a fitting farewell to 11. Amy's cameo was done very also I though I love when films do that do a type of flash back to early scene. I'd give this episode a 9/10.

Ithekro · 2013-12-27, 14:09

We may never see her again in the show, but somehow I think we'll see River Song again. Though I don't know how she'll relate to the new Doctor, or where in her life he'll turn up.

But the Doctor now has "time/lives" to spare. We can go explore the universe again, if the writers want to get out of an Earth setting again. Or go for intergalactic political stories as the Doctor tries to settle things post-11th Doctor (as the Alliance can't stop what happened now). And of course, the search for Gallifrey and a way to bring them back without destroying the Universe in war.

Of course there is something to the End of Time. The 10th Doctor was deturmined to stop Rassilon and the Time Lords (with good reason...can't have it running into Earth or destroying the Universe). But maybe in the next special Tennant happens to be in, there will be more on the Time Lords, and see other reasons for his reaction.

Cause you figure they'll do another special in a year and a half for the 10th year after the return of the series. It gives them an excuse to bring back Matt Smith and David Tennant at the least again for another romp (I always enjoyed Patrick Troughton's returns in the Three, Five, and Two Doctors). And to see them bounce off Peter Capaldi (instead of John Hurt) will be brilliant.

MrTerrorist · 2013-12-28, 01:19

I wonder if the 12th Doctor will be like this?

YouTube

https://youtu.be/qIzEgax3nOQ

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Guardian Enzo · 2013-12-28, 20:46

Any episode without River has a leg up as far as I'm concerned. She grates on me in a big way - the worst kind of Mary Sue and a writer's crutch if ever one existed. But that's me.

I think TotD was overshadowed a bit by Day of the Doctor and its satellite offerings, both in terms of hype and actual content. It's ironic that a regen episode for a popular Doctor - and one who's theoretically out of regenerations at that - should be the side dish, but the 50th was definitely the main course. That said, I thought it did what it set out to do well enough. And in Moffat's defense he did use an excuse to renew the regeneration cycle that's consistent with series canon.

My overall take on the Smith era is mixed, but he was at his best on TotD. He's never nailed the dramatic moments as well as the comedic ones, but there was something in seeing the old soul with the young face actually grow old that was really poignant.

GDB · 2013-12-28, 20:52

The whole "renewed regeneration" thing kind of gets to me. If such a thing worked, why was he out of regenerations? River Song gave him her's, which would've been at most 10 regenerations, but it's hard to believe he used up all 10 to fight that poison.

Guardian Enzo · 2013-12-28, 21:05

It's certainly possible, as it happened on the show 30 years ago. As to the issue with River's regeneration energy, I think that's one where we're never going to get an explanation.

Ithekro · 2013-12-28, 22:14

River used it all to bring him back. She doesn't know how to do that so she over did it.

Bri · 2013-12-29, 06:01

Do we even know how many regenerations River used up between child Melody and Mels? We never did see the New York regeneration completed. I have a feeling Tasha Lem fits in there somewhere.

Ithekro · 2013-12-29, 06:50

If that was the case, wouldn't Tasha have regenerated when she died (and thus get rid of the Dalek inside her like the Doctor was going to do to the Cyber Planner).

Also wouldn't she have remembered the Doctor as Mels from being Tasha? Also she would have known of River Song.

Though I have a feeling we will be seeing River again. We might also see Tasha again. It seemed odd that she knew the Doctor like an old flame, but had never seen this body before, even though he'd had it for hundreds of years by that point. While the Doctor might have met her in another body, it is also possible he hadn't really met her yet (Or met her much earlier since he new of the Church (but not the Church of the Silence) when he, River, and Amy went after the Weeping Angel in Series 5.) It be funny if both Tasha and River thought the Capaldi Doctor was an earlier incarnation of the Doctor.

But who knows. River might be done. All her adventures, save a few were with the 11th Doctor, and most of them off screen (their dates while she was in prison). On the other hand, she might show up with Capaldi and that be her Doctor, as he'd know more than she does finally. But she still enjoyed eleven's youthfulness to twelve's....whatever he has.

After Trenzalor...will the Doctor be big again in the Universe? Did the Time Lords actually change the future (the Doctor isn't buried on that planet now?) or will people think he died there when he blew up the Daleks? Will armies run away at the mention of his name, as River put it? The 11th had some of that, but most of it was false bravado and traps for him. But now? The 11th did a lot of stuff in his possibly 1,000+ years as the Doctor, and spent a large number of them protecting Trenzalor, and a lesser number of years protecting Earth (the other 10 Doctors had that planet covered). Defeating all comers and defeating the Daleks again. Will his reputation now have real weight to it as River stated back when we met her for the first time?

Also, about the Daleks. Now they are back to being a threat and an empire again, they are probably the most feared species in the universes...apart from perhaps the Time Lords. Most instances it is suggested that one Dalek could take a planet, but even if that is exaggeration, the Daleks are rightly feared....

Unless the Doctor is around. The Daleks seem to have a greater fear of him and because of it, because ineffective. We've seen them stop their plans, and stop exterminating people when they detect the Doctor. They just drop everything to focus on him. Yet they can't bring themselves to just shoot him (probably because even that's failed in the past). He is their oldest enemy aside from the Thruls they were designed to defeat...because the Doctor was there at the start.

I did like the Doctor's insulting the Daleks even as he was dying. The Daleks start boasting that the Doctor is dying, then the Doctor points out the Daleks have been trying to kill him for centuries, and yet here he is, dying of old age. "Want something done, do it yourself". At which point he Daleks sound really indignate when they bellow out "You will die!"

White Manju Bun · 2013-12-30, 15:34

I'll look past the few Moffat sized plot holes and say I did really enjoy the episode and 11's final moments. Loved seeing Amy again, I didnt see that coming at all.
Im really starting to like Clara more too, I think she was great in this epi.
well now the waiting begins to see 12 and how Clara adapts to him since she admits in this she fancied 11 (like we didnt know that already). and maybe we'll find out if 12 starts to like the color of his kidneys

I seriously wonder if RTD and Moffat sat around when writing the first words of a new Doctor and was like, whats the oddest thing he can say? 10 talks about his teeth, 11 goes over nearly every body part, 12 yells kidneys. gotta love it.

james0246 · 2013-12-30, 15:36

^Well, he is an older man, so of course he is worried about his kidneys. At least he didn't yell "Prostate!"...

Ithekro · 2013-12-30, 18:19

It will be interesting to see how Clara does with the new Doctor. I seem to recall one of the reasons Jenna Coleman was hired was because she could keep up (and even talk faster) than Matt Smith when he'd go all wordy. I don't know if Capaldi can talk that fast (he probably can).

Also to see what sort of Doctor Capaldi will be. It been assumed he will be darker and angry. But I wonder if they will just go completely against his more recent rolls and just have him do something very different. Instead of the more recent Doctors that have been playing "old soul in a young body" what if they play him as a young mind in an older body. Especially if the regeneration really messed with his mind this time around.

But one thing I want to see is Peter Capaldi on Late Late Night again. Since he and Craig Ferguson were band mates, and Doctor Who fans...the next time they are together might be really fun. Last time was years ago when Capaldi was "In the Thick of It", but they really didn't talk much about that, but about their past in Glasgow. Next time....its Doctor Who. The only Doctor Craig's dropped Acid with. And I've seen him fanboy when Matt Smith or Karen Gillian were on. Imagine doing that with someone he actually knows.

Guardian Enzo · 2013-12-30, 20:04

I've been hoping for a Capaldi return to Craig as well, that would be a thing to see.

Given as most companions are cast for their projected chemistry with the Doctor of the moment, they tend to churn them pretty quickly when the new Doctors come in. There are exceptions (Sarah Jane, for example) but it wouldn't surprise me to see Clara move on pretty quickly. Nor would it break my heart. She's definitely gotten better, but she just doesn't have the "it" that the best companions do.

Ithekro · 2013-12-30, 21:11

Another thing will be if he gets a new sonic screwdriver. We know Vastra, Jenny, and Strax had sonic devices designed for them on Blue Peter, but will the Doctor get a new one? And will it be the one that River had when we first met her? Or will he make that one for her as well (assuming he makes the ones for Vastra, Jenny , and Strax). If the Doctor does, then he might be more like the 3rd Doctor with gadgets and things.

GDB · 2013-12-30, 22:06

I'd assume he gets a new screwdriver. Tennant and Smith's screwdrivers weren't the same, after all.

Ithekro · 2013-12-30, 22:46

Tennant and Eccleston's was the same (or mostly the same) for a season or so. Then only a little different until Matt Smith got a completely new model.

Still no clue when River got her sonic (or Captain Jack's squareness gun for that matter) When in terms of which Doctor, not where she was. It was assumed to be Matt Smith's Doctor after one of the minisodes ("Last Night"), but it could have been a later Doctor as we never saw him with that screwdriver.

After that, we can probably put River Song to rest. Unless she pops up again. She's known to do that.

GDB · 2013-12-30, 22:49

Watching Series 7 now, and I gotta say... Amy + Rori was an amazing companion team. Clara is nice and all, but I think I really like having two companions. Let's them bounce off each other instead of just the Doctor.

Ithekro · 2013-12-30, 23:00

Rumors suggest we will get another companion to go with Clara during Series 8. But who or even what gender is a mystery presently (even species, though we usually get humans).

With a Scot flying the TARDIS, now would be a good time to visit Jamie McCrimmon, while Frazer Hines is still around (presently 69 years old). With the recent rediscovery and release of two Patrick Troughton serials, people would likely know who Jamie is (since he was in all but one of Toughton's serials). He was probably the best male companion the Doctor had.

Guardian Enzo · 2013-12-31, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Watching Series 7 now, and I gotta say... Amy + Rori was an amazing companion team. Clara is nice and all, but I think I really like having two companions. Let's them bounce off each other instead of just the Doctor.

Agree on all fronts. I like the gender-mixed two companion dynamic, and I loved Amy & Rory.

White Manju Bun · 2013-12-31, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Another thing will be if he gets a new sonic screwdriver. We know Vastra, Jenny, and Strax had sonic devices designed for them on Blue Peter, but will the Doctor get a new one? And will it be the one that River had when we first met her? Or will he make that one for her as well (assuming he makes the ones for Vastra, Jenny , and Strax). If the Doctor does, then he might be more like the 3rd Doctor with gadgets and things.

I will say I'm a bit disappointed during 11's run we never saw him give a sonic to River, since she does have one. I have to assume with what happened in The Name Of The Doctor and now 11 being gone, we probably won't see her again. 12 giving it to her wouldnt make much sense.

Also Im kinda hoping for a non-human or non from our time companion when Clara eventually leaves. Seems the older series was more into that.

*wonders when writing 12 isnt gonna feel weird*

2013-12-27, 14:09	Link #402
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	We may never see her again in the show, but somehow I think we'll see River Song again. Though I don't know how she'll relate to the new Doctor, or where in her life he'll turn up. But the Doctor now has "time/lives" to spare. We can go explore the universe again, if the writers want to get out of an Earth setting again. Or go for intergalactic political stories as the Doctor tries to settle things post-11th Doctor (as the Alliance can't stop what happened now). And of course, the search for Gallifrey and a way to bring them back without destroying the Universe in war. Of course there is something to the End of Time. The 10th Doctor was deturmined to stop Rassilon and the Time Lords (with good reason...can't have it running into Earth or destroying the Universe). But maybe in the next special Tennant happens to be in, there will be more on the Time Lords, and see other reasons for his reaction. Cause you figure they'll do another special in a year and a half for the 10th year after the return of the series. It gives them an excuse to bring back Matt Smith and David Tennant at the least again for another romp (I always enjoyed Patrick Troughton's returns in the Three, Five, and Two Doctors). And to see them bounce off Peter Capaldi (instead of John Hurt) will be brilliant. __________________

2013-12-28, 01:19	Link #403
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	I wonder if the 12th Doctor will be like this? YouTube https://youtu.be/qIzEgax3nOQ Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? __________________

2013-12-28, 22:14	Link #407
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	River used it all to bring him back. She doesn't know how to do that so she over did it. __________________

2013-12-29, 06:50	Link #409
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	If that was the case, wouldn't Tasha have regenerated when she died (and thus get rid of the Dalek inside her like the Doctor was going to do to the Cyber Planner). Also wouldn't she have remembered the Doctor as Mels from being Tasha? Also she would have known of River Song. Though I have a feeling we will be seeing River again. We might also see Tasha again. It seemed odd that she knew the Doctor like an old flame, but had never seen this body before, even though he'd had it for hundreds of years by that point. While the Doctor might have met her in another body, it is also possible he hadn't really met her yet (Or met her much earlier since he new of the Church (but not the Church of the Silence) when he, River, and Amy went after the Weeping Angel in Series 5.) It be funny if both Tasha and River thought the Capaldi Doctor was an earlier incarnation of the Doctor. But who knows. River might be done. All her adventures, save a few were with the 11th Doctor, and most of them off screen (their dates while she was in prison). On the other hand, she might show up with Capaldi and that be her Doctor, as he'd know more than she does finally. But she still enjoyed eleven's youthfulness to twelve's....whatever he has. After Trenzalor...will the Doctor be big again in the Universe? Did the Time Lords actually change the future (the Doctor isn't buried on that planet now?) or will people think he died there when he blew up the Daleks? Will armies run away at the mention of his name, as River put it? The 11th had some of that, but most of it was false bravado and traps for him. But now? The 11th did a lot of stuff in his possibly 1,000+ years as the Doctor, and spent a large number of them protecting Trenzalor, and a lesser number of years protecting Earth (the other 10 Doctors had that planet covered). Defeating all comers and defeating the Daleks again. Will his reputation now have real weight to it as River stated back when we met her for the first time? Also, about the Daleks. Now they are back to being a threat and an empire again, they are probably the most feared species in the universes...apart from perhaps the Time Lords. Most instances it is suggested that one Dalek could take a planet, but even if that is exaggeration, the Daleks are rightly feared.... Unless the Doctor is around. The Daleks seem to have a greater fear of him and because of it, because ineffective. We've seen them stop their plans, and stop exterminating people when they detect the Doctor. They just drop everything to focus on him. Yet they can't bring themselves to just shoot him (probably because even that's failed in the past). He is their oldest enemy aside from the Thruls they were designed to defeat...because the Doctor was there at the start. I did like the Doctor's insulting the Daleks even as he was dying. The Daleks start boasting that the Doctor is dying, then the Doctor points out the Daleks have been trying to kill him for centuries, and yet here he is, dying of old age. "Want something done, do it yourself". At which point he Daleks sound really indignate when they bellow out "You will die!" __________________

2013-12-30, 18:19	Link #412
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	It will be interesting to see how Clara does with the new Doctor. I seem to recall one of the reasons Jenna Coleman was hired was because she could keep up (and even talk faster) than Matt Smith when he'd go all wordy. I don't know if Capaldi can talk that fast (he probably can). Also to see what sort of Doctor Capaldi will be. It been assumed he will be darker and angry. But I wonder if they will just go completely against his more recent rolls and just have him do something very different. Instead of the more recent Doctors that have been playing "old soul in a young body" what if they play him as a young mind in an older body. Especially if the regeneration really messed with his mind this time around. But one thing I want to see is Peter Capaldi on Late Late Night again. Since he and Craig Ferguson were band mates, and Doctor Who fans...the next time they are together might be really fun. Last time was years ago when Capaldi was "In the Thick of It", but they really didn't talk much about that, but about their past in Glasgow. Next time....its Doctor Who. The only Doctor Craig's dropped Acid with. And I've seen him fanboy when Matt Smith or Karen Gillian were on. Imagine doing that with someone he actually knows. __________________

2013-12-27, 02:30	Link #401
Mjay Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Maryland Age: 38	I was happy with Matt Smiths send off, it was very fitting. Was the story more convoluted that it had to be? Yes but that's what makes Who, Who sometimes. If I've learned anything from Moffet's Who any "rules" they create are only made so they can break them later and how they break and change them is the journey that is Doctor Who. The last few special episodes have done their job for what they represented. The Name of the Doctor was the farewell to River and the friendships that 11 had built The Day of the Doctor worked very well as a anniversary special. I didn't like it as much for an episode of that season but worked well for what it was intended for. The Time of the Doctor was a fitting farewell to 11. Amy's cameo was done very also I though I love when films do that do a type of flash back to early scene. I'd give this episode a 9/10.

2013-12-28, 20:52	Link #405
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	The whole "renewed regeneration" thing kind of gets to me. If such a thing worked, why was he out of regenerations? River Song gave him her's, which would've been at most 10 regenerations, but it's hard to believe he used up all 10 to fight that poison.

2013-12-29, 06:01	Link #408
Bri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Do we even know how many regenerations River used up between child Melody and Mels? We never did see the New York regeneration completed. I have a feeling Tasha Lem fits in there somewhere.

2013-12-30, 15:36	Link #411
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	^Well, he is an older man, so of course he is worried about his kidneys. At least he didn't yell "Prostate!"...

2013-12-30, 21:11	Link #414
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Another thing will be if he gets a new sonic screwdriver. We know Vastra, Jenny, and Strax had sonic devices designed for them on Blue Peter, but will the Doctor get a new one? And will it be the one that River had when we first met her? Or will he make that one for her as well (assuming he makes the ones for Vastra, Jenny , and Strax). If the Doctor does, then he might be more like the 3rd Doctor with gadgets and things. __________________

2013-12-30, 22:06	Link #415
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	I'd assume he gets a new screwdriver. Tennant and Smith's screwdrivers weren't the same, after all.

2013-12-30, 22:46	Link #416
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Tennant and Eccleston's was the same (or mostly the same) for a season or so. Then only a little different until Matt Smith got a completely new model. Still no clue when River got her sonic (or Captain Jack's squareness gun for that matter) When in terms of which Doctor, not where she was. It was assumed to be Matt Smith's Doctor after one of the minisodes ("Last Night"), but it could have been a later Doctor as we never saw him with that screwdriver. After that, we can probably put River Song to rest. Unless she pops up again. She's known to do that. __________________

2013-12-30, 22:49	Link #417
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Watching Series 7 now, and I gotta say... Amy + Rori was an amazing companion team. Clara is nice and all, but I think I really like having two companions. Let's them bounce off each other instead of just the Doctor.

2013-12-30, 23:00	Link #418
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Rumors suggest we will get another companion to go with Clara during Series 8. But who or even what gender is a mystery presently (even species, though we usually get humans). With a Scot flying the TARDIS, now would be a good time to visit Jamie McCrimmon, while Frazer Hines is still around (presently 69 years old). With the recent rediscovery and release of two Patrick Troughton serials, people would likely know who Jamie is (since he was in all but one of Toughton's serials). He was probably the best male companion the Doctor had. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2013-12-30 at 23:15.