[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 350 Discussion

[Kagetsuchi]

Kay, i predict a or b to happen next to get ichigo out of super sayain 4 mode.
One will be epic the other will be genric.

Either A: Orihime keeps spaming his name like she has for the past 9001years.
Or Epic B: She gives her soul to reverse the hollow hole in ichigo's chest to save him.

Wild Card : Ichigo goes Berserk and becomes the new Antagonist and Aizen and everyone else team up to beat the crap out of Super Sayain 4 ichigo.

[sakuraame]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Ichigo could really swing either way, which is why I used the word "dominantly"...Ichigo started out as neither shinigami nor hollow but human...Yes, his father was a shinigami, giving Ichigo inherent spiritual power, but not necessarily shinigami powers...Rukia's powers don't necessarily count because it wasn't Ichigo's own, but it did draw on Ichigo's latent spiritual power...But Ichigo gained his own personal powers when he was training with Kisuke in his shop, however gaining both shinigami and hollow powers at the same time, but still dominantly shinigami...

I hadn't thought about the fact that he essentially gained his shinigami and hollow powers simultaneously. But I think that it's incorrect to say that Ichigo started out as neither shinigami or hollow, but as human. He started out as human definitely, but he had his own shinigami powers lying dormant in him; Zangetsu testifies to this. (Ch. 63 Pg. 10) If he had his own shinigami powers lying dormant, even if they weren't fully developed, than that would make him a shinigami, thus satisfying the shinigami --> hollow criteria to be considered a visored.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

He's still dominantly shinigami, but with hollow powers that augment his shinigami abilities, making him a visored...But at this point, he's definitely dominant in hollow powers while still retaining his zanpakuto, and while it's not known if his zanpakuto would help any of his hollow powers, this typeset none-the-less is more like an arrancar...

The difference between Ichigo and a visored and an arrancar is that a visored spiritual powers start as a shinigami and later include the addition of hollow, while an arrancar spiritual powers start as a hollow and later include the addition of shinigami; There is no dominant anything, just one typeset and later a hybrid...With Ichigo, there is no typeset; He came out of that hole donning both a hollow mask and a shinigami uniform, making him a hybrid from the start...The only reason he's associated with the Visored and not the Arrancar is that he's still dominantly shinigami, at least most of the time up until now...

When you say "dominantly" do you mean in terms of who's in control or visually speaking? Who is in control at the moment doesn't change that he is still a visored. He is, however, in danger if his hollow is in control for too long as his hollow would probably overwhelm the shinigami in him causing him to turn into a hollow. Or I guess it would at this time that he could become an Arrancar by holding onto Zangetsu but devouring the rest of Ichigo's soul. If you talking visually, his hollow powers are just being tapped more so than his shinigami powers thus giving him a hollow appearance.

You talk about dominance in Ichigo as if he was the only one that needed to dominant anything. The Visords all had to train for dominance over their hollows (expect for Mashiro) making them dominantly shinigami in your words. Also Arrancar are dominantly hollow, it just seems that they don't have to fight for it. At least we've haven't seen anything like that yet. But his soul can't switch from being dominantly shinigami or hollow which, correct me if I'm wrong, you might be suggesting. Once a soul, or in the Visords' case, part of a soul, turns hollow there is no going back. So his soul can't flip-flop between shinigami and hollow. Fighting for control and using hollow powers are different than changing the make-up of one's soul at will.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

I think with Ichigo, power dominance and life support are the two deciding factors that determine whether "Ichigo" stays his human/shinigami self or if his inner hollow takes over his self...That kind of a full-face hollow mask that covers the entire head is not something you obtain through visored training, but more like through the process of resurrección...And while visored training helps you consciously control one's inner hollow, I don't think it includes any preparation for what happens when one gets close to or reaches death...

It's hard to say what Visored training can give you. As someone mentioned before, the full extent of a Visored's power has never been shown. The most we've seen is what Ichigo has done up to this point, the mask. And most, if not all of them, don't have to go bankai to form the mask. Heck, I don't think we've seen any of them release their zanpakutou aside from Kensei and he didn't even have his mask on. Some have speculated that this form is another Visored power. But whether this form is exclusive to Ichigo or exclusive to the Visord is unknown, because the Visord haven't really done anything.

Until Ichigo, or whoever he is at the moment, does something besides roar and separate arms from bodies (which is cool, but still...) and actually says something, we won't know what this form is all about. I wanna see what Ishida regrets soon. Something tells me it'll be covered in a lot of blood.

[hollowification]

I think ichigo become level beyond normal vizard He has entered and i think he is mindless hollow as u saw he never spoke but roared

[Seraphis]

Did anyone else see this happening after Ulq's arm was ripped off? (2:55 onwards to be exact)

[Blade_ Runner]

This chapter was gangsta! Ichigo did his thang!
Because this is funny

Originally Posted by Ichimaru

the current vizards didnt even have any design changes even after 100yrs

Not true. Mashiro had mask and Hollow legs. No one else did. We only saw their masks. They have been Vizards longer and Urahara used the Hougyoku on them. Both them and Sec Gen Espada had the Hougyoku used on them. Ichigo did not. Kubo has said his consciousness is there. They are probably still merging. his hollow and Shingami powers. They were two I think they are turning back to one.

Originally Posted by lequory

Im honestly confused right now. I know he was supposed to get a power up but this form???? Does his hollow upgrade like an outdated computer when its overpowered by a foe? Someone who has analyzed this greatly give me some type of explanation please. I mean it's a good chapter but WTF!

I have a theory. Can I lay it on you?

I believe that Ichigo's hollow hole would have formed in his chest anyway. I think Ulquiorra's blow is what triggered it and that is why he didn't die.

When Ichigo became a Vizard. The mask formed first then the body. He had hollow.

During Vaizard Training the same thing happened. Because Aizen has the hougyoku I think Urahara devised another way to help him subjugate it. But unlike the vizards the transformation was unstable. Aizen said the Hougyoku was the only way to make the perfect Hybrid.

Ichisaurus is the Hollow Ichigo would have turned into the the first time. Because he is neither Shinigami nor Hollow. Just like Arrancar he can't have a fully Hollow Form. He has to have one in-between.

Ichigo is retarded already and can't use his powers plus. I think he has a Vasto Lorde Level POWERS (NOT VASTO LORDE THAT IS A HOLLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

So it's harder to control and that is why he is the strongest. I believe the Vaizards were successful because had they became Hollows they would have all been Menos. Remember Shawlong said to GJ maybe their final forms were pre-ordained.

I truly believe that Hollows are merely Shinigami whose powers have gone retarded. So they still function as soul balancers. That is why they only evolve after consuming a certain amount of Hollows not humans. They don't have to they only eat humans because they long for their humanity.

I think the reason you can fully merge the two and create such a strong Hybrid because they aren't all that different.

Right now Ichigo is Ichigo. Hollows are creatures of Instinct. Because his VL level and he is a retard when it comes to his powers. He cannot be "fully human" in this form yet. The fact that he did ...

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

This is sorta dejavu Yammy destroyed Chad's arm Ichigo cut off his arm . Ulqi amputated Ishida hand the Hollow takes out Ulqi hand .

Makes me more sure of it. Hollow Ichigo has never done anything that Ichigo hasn't done when he is Ichigo. He is just more extreme.

Think about his fight with Bya. When he said "Your eyes will believe it" He moves and talks and acts just like his hollow.

When he sees him in the inner world. He and the Hollow go bankai. They act the same way.

Ichigo is NOT A HOLLOW. HE IS NOT AN ARRANCAR. (They are former HOLLOWS)

He is their counterpart. Of course he looks similar. Anyway this is Vizard form. The IchiSaurus was just him turning into a hollow. He was losing the battle at first that's why it went so far.
So what do you think?

I like Beserker ICHIGO.

Oh yeah...Kubo put horns on his characters first. While I reading Naruto's fight with pain and transformed. I said..Kyuubi just went Vaizard.

Bad writer my ass, Kubo delivered! He always does. Read Zombie Powder. He has a certain style. It's a build up.

Originally Posted by 9TailsOfDestruction

Yea but that is what Bleach is all about even from the very beginning. What is happening is nothing new to us.

"I'll protect my friends" is the very essence of what Bleach and Naruto is all about. Two of the most popular anime and mangas in the world. Take some Mylanta is you're stomach is upset

This post is made of WIN!

[TheInfinityZERO]

I'd like to make an assumption that Ichigo's first hollow form was that of an Adjuchas-level hollow, along with the other Vaizards. His new form definately looks like he's reached the level of a Vasto Lordes. Grimmjow himself never reached that level...is he still alive?


I've seen "vaizard" and "vizard," but "visored" is totally new to me. How'd you guys come up with that?

[Blade_ Runner]

That could be so...but I doubt it. I think it is determined by your power level. Even if he was...I think it would have evolved anyway. For some they stop evolving *GJ FlashBack*

I think he always had VL powers. That is why he has the most human looking avatar for a zanpaktou out of all the true forms we seen. Since it is a manifestation of your powers.

Hichigo isn't actually a Hollow either. Or he doesn't look like one. Kubo said they were the most human in form. He has always appeared human. His hollow powers, never looked like an adjuchas. Can't say VL because we have never seen one...

[SeanQ]

Ouch...Judging from Ulq expression after getting his arm cut off...he'll probably grow a new one. Chapter wasn't all that good either, was really hoping for Unohana to save the day, I guess maybe hopefully she could come in when Ichigo goes berserk and she'll end up chopping off his arm. No Arms Free Day!!!

[Blade_ Runner]

SeanQ

I think Orihime aka Mobile Hospital. Will heal him and they are going to go at it.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Ichigo is adept with the Force...

Not really he did nearly the same thing in Bankai Training.
@iamdeath
He roared but that is like him. He puts a lot of "OHHHHHHHH"S" into his swings.

[hollowification]

we expected ichigo to under go between arrancar/vizard transformation as we saw we dont know what it is he maybe level beyond those of arrancar or vizard even more power full then both maybe he could fight against aizen in that condition but i dont think so i think he will kill 4th strongest ulurquire and then he would chase after orihime and ishinda

[Freya]

I would have laughed if Ichigo instead of ROARING went MEOW!!!!!!!!!!

[sakuraame]

Originally Posted by TheInfinityZERO

I've seen "vaizard" and "vizard," but "visored" is totally new to me. How'd you guys come up with that?

Am I going to get burned at the stake like a heretic if I say wikipedia? ... Cause it was wikipedia. I usually go there for names, because if I phonetically spell them out, I always end of doing something wrong if I don't check before hand. "Visored" might be the English Viz translation, but I thought I had seen it before so I didn't really think twice. Or it might be posted by some jerk who likes to post incorrect info just for the heck of it. I think that I've seen too many variations of the word so now if it starts with a "V" and ends with a "D" my brain automatically fills in the blanks and I hear it in my head. But enough of the attempt to justify the use of wikipedia.

How much stronger do you think Ichigo is now in his current form? On par with Ulquiorra or much stronger? I had always thought that Ichigo would be the one to defeat Aizen since he is the protagonist and all, but after all these battles I'm not so sure. If he has to become swiss cheese twice before he can defeat Espada #4, how many power ups will he have to do to defeat Aizen?

[Arachne]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

I'm guessing Ichigo heard her subconsciously, but that doesn't mean this is Ichigo, we'll have to wait and see.

It's more than possible that this is Ichigo and I'd personally hate if it were Hichigo, but I guess we will. KT showed us Ichigo's inner thoughts for a reason when he could have simply showed us a typical chat between Hichigo and Ichigo, but he instead chose us to simply show Ichigo's thoughts.

[hollowification]

Originally Posted by Arachne

It's more than possible that this is Ichigo and I'd personally hate if it were Hichigo, but I guess we will. KT showed us Ichigo's inner thoughts for a reason when he could have simply showed us a typical chat between Hichigo and Ichigo, but he instead chose us to simply show Ichigo's thoughts.

i think the ichigo standing there is Hollow ichigo i am not sure will have to wait until the next few chapter to see what happens

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by sakuraame

Am I going to get burned at the stake like a heretic if I say wikipedia? ... Cause it was wikipedia. I usually go there for names, because if I phonetically spell them out, I always end of doing something wrong if I don't check before hand. "Visored" might be the English Viz translation, but I thought I had seen it before so I didn't really think twice. Or it might be posted by some jerk who likes to post incorrect info just for the heck of it. I think that I've seen too many variations of the word so now if it starts with a "V" and ends with a "D" my brain automatically fills in the blanks and I hear it in my head. But enough of the attempt to justify the use of wikipedia.

Pretty much most of Japanese things you hear you can romanize with ease, so Vaizar(u)d(o) would pretty much be it as far as grammatical correctness (phonetically) goes (That and don't trust wiki all the time).

How much stronger do you think Ichigo is now in his current form? On par with Ulquiorra or much stronger? I had always thought that Ichigo would be the one to defeat Aizen since he is the protagonist and all, but after all these battles I'm not so sure. If he has to become swiss cheese twice before he can defeat Espada #4, how many power ups will he have to do to defeat Aizen?

Well I'm pretty sure you'd have to at least be as strong as someone like Ulq to get behind him, grab his arm, and yank it off. And while I want to doubt Aizen as being powerful since he hides behind his hypno sword, I don't think he is. Though I think without his hypno crap, this new Ichigo could take him on.

[Fishman]

Ah, yes, random unexplained powerup #594545, why does popular manga/anime suck so bad?

[Alchemist007]

We're all suckers for 1337 haxxors.

[Arachne]

Originally Posted by Fishman

Ah, yes, random unexplained powerup #594545, why does popular manga/anime suck so bad?

I agree, Haruhi and Clannad do suck, so badly in fact I cried tears of anguish after viewing them.

[DNE]

Originally Posted by Freya

I would have laughed if Ichigo instead of ROARING went MEOW!!!!!!!!!!

lol!!

Spoiler:

[TheInfinityZERO]

Agreed. Way too many power-ups.
I love the several DBZ comparisons made in this thread. Judging by his long, golden hair, he's currently at SSJ3.

Where's Chad and Uryuu's power-up? They're like Tien and Yamucha, the losers.