Piracy Boosts Anime Sales, Study Concludes

[akei1]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

The main reason why this study is a good thing, is because there has been so little research on the effects of piracy, period. Everyone just assumes it's bad. This is just yet another thing you can point to that indicates it's not so bad.

And hell, Bill Gates said as much, regarding piracy of windows in China: "If they are going to pirate, we want them to pirate our stuff. We'll figure out later how to monetize it."

So there are rich people that know the benefits of piracy. If Microsoft started cracking down on Chinese piracy, all those users would switch to Linux. Piracy is essentially free advertising. You can record a song off the radio, but is that stealing? (and yes, there are RIAA folks who want to severely limit that as well).

The Windows market is already well established globally. Many people are happy with the Windows product and there's great sales and profit margins that the company is experiencing. Therefore, there's more tolerance for using piracy as free advertisement. Average joes aren't very technical and can't pirate Windows easily (or apply the hacks), so the more advertisement spreads, the more sales increase.

I would say the anime market outside of Japan is not well established (considering its popularity). The majority of people are not happy with licensed anime (bad voice acting, hardware discs vs pirated digital copies, release speeds, etc.). This is evident with the state of a licensing company called Funimation (Funimation is being auctioned off by its parent company, they had a measly 1 million net profit last year or something like that). Even animators in Japan earn slave wages (like 20k a year).

Will using piracy as free advertisement help the licensed anime market? Not much. First, the anime market isn't as well established as it should be. Second, they'll be advertising a product that the majority don't even want to pay for (bad voice acting, hardware discs vs pirated digital copies, release speeds, etc.). Third, it's so easy to pirate anime that any average joe (even kids) can do it and keep doing it, so the more advertisement spreads, very little sales is gained.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by akei1

Will using piracy as free advertisement help the licensed anime market? Not much. First, the anime market isn't as well established as it should be. Second, they'll be advertising a product that the majority don't even want to pay for (bad voice acting, hardware discs vs pirated digital copies, release speeds, etc.). Third, it's so easy to pirate anime that any average joe (even kids) can do it and keep doing it, so the more advertisement spreads, very little sales is gained.

Actually, from the study, free streaming on places like Youtube has helped to greatly increase the market. Someone won't buy your product if they don't know it exists. I myself have gotten a few people hooked with free fansubs. And yes, I also buy DVDs when I watch a pretty good series... a purchase I wouldn't have made if I couldn't watch the series first.

So while it's "not as well established as it could be" that kind of reasoning works for any market. It is becoming well more known. Hell, it was the fansubbers who helped create the anime market in the west in the first place!

As far as bad voice acting... that's up to personal interpretation. While I prefer subs and don't particularly like dubs, I have several friends who do prefer dubs, and what I would consider "bad" they would consider just fine. And the Japanese voice acting I find to be quite good in the majority of anime. There is only a small fraction of anime I have watched, where I would call it bad.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by akei1

Will using piracy as free advertisement help the licensed anime market? Not much. First, the anime market isn't as well established as it should be. Second, they'll be advertising a product that the majority don't even want to pay for (bad voice acting, hardware discs vs pirated digital copies, release speeds, etc.). Third, it's so easy to pirate anime that any average joe (even kids) can do it and keep doing it, so the more advertisement spreads, very little sales is gained.

Anecdotally, my expenditures on anime/manga prior to knowing about fansubs? Zero.
My expenditures with the advent of me knowing that fansubs exist?
$1-$2K a year.

Its simple - if I can't get an idea what a series is about by watching a fansub of the *broadcast* series, I'm certainly not going to plunk down several hundred dollars on a DVD collection or 100-200 dollars on a figure.
Flat-rate subscription streaming of *every* series with the knowledge that I will be able to buy DVDs of what I like... that puts me on the same footing as the Japanese fan. Until then, fansubs are my only recourse for many series.

[Lord of Fire]

Fansubs have helped me greatly appreciate a show enough to buy either DVDs or figurines for. I have a few DVD boxsets and several figurines with more on the way, the total cost easily comes to around $1,000. And I fully intend on buying DVDs for shows I liked, even if I can't get them as soon as they're released (simply because I don't have an endless supply of money).

If people want to buy, they'll buy. However, some need a little push to do so and knowing that a show is worth a (costly) purchase makes a world of difference to some of them. These are the potential customers the industry needs to focus more on, rather than trying to weed out the 'dirty pirates' with the most excessive force they can muster.

IMO, the problem isn't people watching anime through fansubs, the problem is that there is no good legal alternative for a lot of people. Though we have things like CR and FUNimation, a lot of shows don't get licensed at all and the ones that do end up getting region-blocked for non-US viewers in roughly 75% of all cases. So, for people like me, there isn't really a proper alternative and fansubs will probably be my prime source of anime for a very long time.

[Ryonea]

Isn't anime sales mostly originate from the merchandises (such as figurines) instead of the DVD / BD?

[GDB]

It depends on the series. Some make money from merchandising, some from discs, and some just from advertising.

[TJR]

The measure of success also depends on the company involved. A manga publisher and DVD distributor might invest in one show yet have different aims for the project (i.e. the manga publisher is most concerned about increased readership, whereas the DVD distributor banks on DVD/BD sales). A show might be seen as a success by one partner but as a lacklustre investment by another.

[Kaijo]

To take a series and fandom I know fairly well: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. I know tons of fans who buy the figmas and DVD box sets, who wouldn't have if they didn't know the series existed, and hadn't seen it for themselves. There is a well-established "Fate" fandbase that will buy all sorts of merchandise (the pillows, bedsheets, posters, soundtracks, figurines, etc) and will go to see a movie release several times in theaters (Japanese and American, if they can).

That's how a studio generally makes money on a release; through merchandise. In that light, the TV broadcast is really an advertisement. "Piracy" and fansubs, merely increase the range of that broadcast, letting new people see what's going on.\

Are there some that will pirate and never buy anything? Yes. But they were never customers in the first place. Focus on the true fans and release good merchandise, and you'll rake in the money... provided you've churned out a decently good series. If you churn out crap, don't blame piracy when it fails. Piracy merely let everyone else know it was crap.

[KholdStare]

Recall this bit in the article:

In particular, Tanaka said that the effect was clearer for programs that had already stopped airing on television.

Of course, nowadays streams from CR and Funi makes this less of a problem, but they still don't stream everything out there, so fansubbing will never be obsolete. Is there something similar to CR in Japan?

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Of course, nowadays streams from CR and Funi makes this less of a problem, but they still don't stream everything out there, so fansubbing will never be obsolete. Is there something similar to CR in Japan?

More anime are starting to air on video site Nico Nico Douga, but I think they get taken down soon after the TV airing... still, for people who don't get cable channels or don't want to stay up late, it's a good alternative.

Can't speak for the video quality since it's region locked so I've never been able to watch anime off Nico. =_=

[Triple_R]

I think that the core problem is that much of the anime industry believes that a person getting to see anime episode content gives them a disincentive for buying the DVD with those same anime episodes on it. Now, a lot of people might say things like "Why would I buy the DVD when I've already seen the anime episodes on it?", but most (if not all) of those people would never buy the DVD anyway.

But a lot of people will purchase a DVD, or character merchandise, for an anime/anime character that they've watched and enjoyed.

I mean, where do you think most of the Star Trek DVD purchases come from, for example? Do they come mostly from Trekkies who watched Star Trek and loved it, or do they come mostly from blind purchases?

Companies that sell DVDs based on popular North American TV shows (like House, 24, CSI, etc...) get that TV episodes are actually good advertising for the DVDs. The more people that get to see your content, the better.

And that's why I'm inclined to think that YouTube is absolutely great for the anime industry.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that the core problem is that much of the anime industry believes that a person getting to see anime episode content gives them a disincentive for buying the DVD with those same anime episodes on it. Now, a lot of people might say things like "Why would I buy the DVD when I've already seen the anime episodes on it?", but most (if not all) of those people would never buy the DVD anyway.

But a lot of people will purchase a DVD, or character merchandise, for an anime/anime character that they've watched and enjoyed.

I mean, where do you think most of the Star Trek DVD purchases come from, for example? Do they come mostly from Trekkies who watched Star Trek and loved it, or do they come mostly from blind purchases?

Companies that sell DVDs based on popular North American TV shows (like House, 24, CSI, etc...) get that TV episodes are actually good advertising for the DVDs. The more people that get to see your content, the better.

And that's why I'm inclined to think that YouTube is absolutely great for the anime industry.

I agree. I think the notion that having seen something online for free makes one less likely to buy a physical copy is flawed. I might only be speaking for myself here, but I suspect others act similarly: I'm not going to buy something just because it's a new anime. I'm going to buy it because it's an anime I liked. And given the fact that television in my area does not air much anime at all, there is simply no way to expose myself other than through the internet.

[KholdStare]

It's a point that we would make intuitively, but there's a problem. It's fine if the companies make GOOD anime. But the ones who make bad anime won't like it, because it means no one will buy their DVDs. Whereas back in the old days, a studio with good reputation would have people pre-ordering DVDs no matter if it's good or bad, sort of like people pre-ordering Harry Potter books, sort of like K-ON! hype because of KyoAni.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that the core problem is that much of the anime industry believes that a person getting to see anime episode content gives them a disincentive for buying the DVD with those same anime episodes on it. Now, a lot of people might say things like "Why would I buy the DVD when I've already seen the anime episodes on it?", but most (if not all) of those people would never buy the DVD anyway.

But a lot of people will purchase a DVD, or character merchandise, for an anime/anime character that they've watched and enjoyed.

I mean, where do you think most of the Star Trek DVD purchases come from, for example? Do they come mostly from Trekkies who watched Star Trek and loved it, or do they come mostly from blind purchases?

Companies that sell DVDs based on popular North American TV shows (like House, 24, CSI, etc...) get that TV episodes are actually good advertising for the DVDs. The more people that get to see your content, the better.

And that's why I'm inclined to think that YouTube is absolutely great for the anime industry.

Darn, you keep pointing out the "emperor has no clothes"....

[erneiz_hyde]

I'm just gonna dump my opinions here.

I think that anime DVD's that never got licensed were never meant to be sold outside Japan. I think the marketing team in Japan never really viewed outside-Japan as a target market, thus they sell with only Japanese costumers in mind, and produce accordingly.

For anime licenses outside Japan, they are only possible additional revenue and never a main target for them. Therefore, if a license is never purchased within a country, that area is outside Japan's anime industry market.

What the fansubbers're doing is simply provide access (or at least, a glimpse of it) into the market. People hooked may decide to dive in the market themselves (over-seas order,etc) and add additional income for the industry. But, those who didn't was never intended costumers in the first place so the industry didn't actually lose any anything.

Basically, I'm saying piracy outside Japan shouldn't affect anything for the market within Japan. The only thing the market lost is the "possibility" of additional income which shouldn't be a major factor in the first place.

Of course there are many loop-holes in that logic, but that's what I'm telling myself, and perhaps everyone in the internet.

[Vexx]

You're mostly on target... to some degree the only reason Japanese firms worry about copyright infringement and file sharing is the threat of "reverse importation" ... files shared outbound in raw form -> the fansubbers subtitle and compress the video -> up on torrent -> Japanese viewers can acquire those much smaller files more easily without having to pay for a cable tv subscription.

The *fans* will buy the stuff if they like the series - that much remains pretty constant in Japan (though the economic disaster has reduced that disposable income).

And like Triple_R says... people watch stuff on tv -> then buy the DVDs. That's a known working model. Arguments by "anti-sharing" types totally ignore that. Its an obstacle to their utopian dream model wherein every time a consumer THINKS about a piece of "intellectual property" (washes mouth out) the corporate owners get paid. Note I didn't say the creators necessarily get paid

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Arguments by "anti-sharing" types totally ignore that.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, watching a series on tv or streaming doesn't give you a permanent copy. Sure you can record it or capture a stream, but those are additional steps. When you download a fansub, you have that permanent copy automatically with no additional steps taken. In some cases the video quality can be better than a DVD and nearly as good as a BD. The argument might not be that strong, but it isn't totally ignored.

[akei1]

There are plenty of people ripping DVDs & Blu-rays and posting them online for everyone to download, so there's potential DVDs & Blu-rays customers lost.

But I see where everyone is getting at by saying anime companies should sacrifice the potential DVDs & Blu-rays customers lost from pirating, in order to gain the customers they can. As many have mentioned, a centralized online anime streaming site would be a great idea. I think many anime companies should get together and make a single site with a big selection of anime (like how netflix has a wide selection of movies and shows), allow users to create accounts so they can form playlists (like youtube), have comments and blog feeds (like facebook), and provide forums for discussions (like animesuki). They could even add an anime news or merchandise section. You know, like make an all in one anime community site that lets you get info, interact, and make friends.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by akei1

There are plenty of people ripping DVDs & Blu-rays and posting them online for everyone to download, so there's potential DVDs & Blu-rays customers lost.

On the other hand you can get situations where someone had no intention of buying, downloaded, then after watching decided to buy the series. It does work both ways.

[akei1]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

On the other hand you can get situations where someone had no intention of buying, downloaded, then after watching decided to buy the series. It does work both ways.

You devil's advocater you lol