Russia invasion of Ukraine

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Okay. But I didn't ask your opinion about the general issues of various nations elites or corrupt political systems or the question of reforming those political systems as a long term solution. I asked how you propose to get Ukraine to stop fighting over the annexed Ukrainian territory to avoid a nuclear war, if they don't want to stop fighting? Cause you're skirting around the issue that NATO would at this point need to take some pretty extreme measures to get the Ukrainians to stop fighting at this point.

My solution is to tell Zelensky to stop promoting war publicly, even if it costs him his popularity. Ukraine wouldnt be on the map today if the US didnt come to its aid. It is clear that the US/West want to escalate this war and would like to continue for a long time to come, the sings are all there, after all, the west had to resort to sending UK's prime minister to break up a possible peace deal between Ukraine and Russia during the early stages of this war.

The obvious way to defeat Putin, in my opinion, is by engaging him in very public televised peace talks and put his moral compass to the test. One wrong answer and his political popularity would suffer. If I told him directly that the Ukraine will never join NATO and thus this war should come to a swift end, then he would be forced to publicly agree or attempt to make a contrived excuse to keep the war going. Then it would be plain as day that he had imperial intentions all along.

PS. Apologies for the late response.

Originally Posted by OH&S

Not exactly inspiring confidence here if Russell Brand is your go-to source.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Yeah, my very thought.

Funny right? he is a freaking comedian after all.

You know what is also funny? The fact that you attack the messenger instead of actually criticizing the message, but how could you, when your dependent on news sources that are basically redacted corporate/state propaganda. I am sure you guys also bought into the weapons of mass destruction thing.

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

inb4 Sugetsu quotes Elon Musk.

Ah man... I am too late! =( But I gotta say, it is crazy how effective the main stream media is at brainwashing and stripping the masses of their ability to think critically. You would think that Elon's statements would be regarded as common sense, since they could avert a possible nuclear war, yet people are unconsciously/robotically favoring the corporate narrative that only leads to escalation and maybe a nuclear holocausts.

Here are the solutions he suggests:

- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.

Not big on this one, but I see the merit since this region saw large protests demanding to be part of Russia for 8 years. It is just not clear to me how the recent annexation impacts public opinion of Russia in these areas.

- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).

No comment here, I really hate the concept of nations, which only serve to divide people and foment war.

- Water supply to Crimea assured.

Agreed.

- Ukraine remains neutral.

Agreed, Russia doesn't want NATO in its backyard the same way as the US wouldnt want a Russian military base in Cu... oh wait.

Originally Posted by ramlaen

Now tell us how many terminals SpaceX donated and whether SpaceX sells terminals at a profit.

And to build off of this point, you guys should also tell us if the military contractors are benefiting financially with this soon to be forever-war...

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ramlaen

Would you accept anything less than an unconditional surrender by Russia?

I mean Ukraine has made clear their war aims are strictly retaking their territory that Russia has illegally annexed. Russia could accommodate that simply by returning to their pre-2014 borders, and not a single boot of a foreign soldier would set foot in Russia's internationally recognized territory. Russia could probably also get sanctions lifted if they leveraged both gas and what Ukrainian citizens they've effectively mass abducted.

That's hardly asking for Russia to submit themselves to unconditional surrender.

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

My solution is to tell Zelensky to stop promoting war publicly, even if it costs him his popularity. Ukraine wouldnt be on the map today if the US didnt come to its aid. It is clear that the US/West want to escalate this war and would like to continue for a long time to come, the sings are all there, after all, the west had to resort to sending UK's prime minister to break up a possible peace deal between Ukraine and Russia during the early stages of this war.

And if Zelensky says no? And orders his generals to continue thrashing what remains of Russia's professional army with what NATO and Warsaw pact weaponry they've already been provided? Zelensky is now imminently provoking Russia to nuclear war, and asking him to stop is doing nothing.

What now?

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

The obvious way to defeat Putin, in my opinion, is by engaging him in very public televised peace talks and put his moral compass to the test. One wrong answer and his political popularity would suffer. If I told him directly that the Ukraine will never join NATO and thus this war should come to a swift end, then he would be forced to publicly agree or attempt to make a contrived excuse to keep the war going. Then it would be plain as day that he had imperial intentions all along.

I'm pretty sure Putin having Imperial intentions was obvious when he made a speech about how Ukraine was a make believe country, then tried to conquer it all at once.

As for the obvious way to "defeat" Putin...So Putin is both a deranged suicidal mad man who might start World War 3 and Armageddon if he's not allowed to annex territory from one of his neighbors...but he's also one clever public debate testing his moral compass away from realizing the error of his ways? Does it strike you that seems a bit improbable?

[Yu Ominae]

I laugh when people still want to appeal to Putin by talking to him.

Putin already made his point at the start of the "special military operation".

And for those who want to use Brand, please stop. He's just a comedian and not a political analyst. Promoting him is doing a black eye on future prospects for doing that kind of work after my Masters.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

Funny right? he is a freaking comedian after all.

You know what is also funny? The fact that you attack the messenger instead of actually criticizing the message, but how could you, when your dependent on news sources that are basically redacted corporate/state propaganda. I am sure you guys also bought into the weapons of mass destruction thing.

TL;DR…

RE: Russell Brand

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

I laugh when people still want to appeal to Putin by talking to him.

Putin already made his point at the start of the "special military operation".

And for those who want to use Brand, please stop. He's just a comedian and not a political analyst. Promoting him is doing a black eye on future prospects for doing that kind of work after my Masters.

Imagine thinking you can "ask nicely" someone who is drunk on self-importance, past glory of his country and will always engage you on bad faith.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

not a political analyst. Promoting him is doing a black eye on future prospects for doing that kind of work after my Masters.

Curious....why do you want to go into this type of work? What do you hope to achieve?

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Curious....why do you want to go into this type of work? What do you hope to achieve?

Because we need people educated in political analysis and foreign policy who can help shed some REAL light into the workings and machinations of government activity outside of government itself (Yu Ominae), as opposed to apologist armchair conspiracy theorists latching on to the belief that everyone else are sheeple compared to them (they who will not be named).

[Yu Ominae]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Curious....why do you want to go into this type of work? What do you hope to achieve?

I'm considering a career change by moving back to Ottawa and work for DND (defense) rather than stick in Manila (considering who's the president).

I thank my Japanese poli sci prof in Vancouver for inspiring me to do my Masters in Strategic Studies.

Sadly, doing private intelligence/political think tank research nowadays requires a Masters, which is why I decided to study in Singapore.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

I wasn't going to post this but since there seems to be some interest in the topic:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577083578202361856

Even though the washington post is not 100% accurate (no newspaper is), I think it is more feasible that they are right and Elon Musk is lying (he has done so before in twitter, anyone here remembers when he said he had secured saudi arabia funding to make tesla private)

Originally Posted by ramlaen

Donating tens of millions worth of critical communication equipment isn't profiting from a crisis.

Let's for a moment entertain the thought that musk payed said "tens of millions worth" of equipment, even then he is making a profit thanks to all the worldwide free publicity his internet service got, simple business sense.

North Vietnam was not ejected from South Vietnam, did you mean the Korean wars?

The USA was ejected from Vietnam (to never return), is that such a diffficult concept to grasp?

What major conflicts were there between Vietnam and Desert Storm where the US was not involved because of the results of the Vietnam war?

That is a funny one, you really believe the USA did not partake in any major more military adventures for decades after vietnam because there were no opportunities? One example of how scared the USA was of starting any major conflict was the invasion of Granada or the special military operation to oust panama strongman Manuel Noriega by reagan, those were smallish well planed operations with little room for failure. Had the Vietnam war been successful Lybia or Iran would have come next.

Please stop, portraying Russians as horned glowing eyed devils with asperations of world domination is just comical.

Reading comprehension problems much? I clearly stated putin is the egomaniac with world domination dreams. The average russian is no such devil, as can be seen by the thousand fleeing the draft. One thing is buy a Z flag or shirt because the mass media tells them it is the patriotic thing to do and another one is to want to kill people they consider their slavic brothers.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

Here are the solutions he suggests:
Not big on this one, but I see the merit since this region saw large protests demanding to be part of Russia for 8 years. It is just not clear to me how the recent annexation impacts public opinion of Russia in these areas.

No elections can be fair under occupation. Add to that that the invading country has had rigged rigged elections for decades. Last but no least, thousands of residents have fled the area, so the electorate is tilted to those with lesser incomes or who don't care who rules at all.

No comment here, I really hate the concept of nations, which only serve to divide people and foment war.

Officially giving Crimea to Russia would be like a rape victim giving her phone number to his rapist, aka an invitation to do it again.

Agreed.

Crimea should have Ukranian water only if it is part of Ukraine. Would you give water everyday to your rapist?

Agreed, Russia doesn't want NATO in its backyard the same way as the US wouldnt want a Russian military base in Cu... oh wait.

You don't seem to be able to read between lines. Putin NEVER was interested in Ukraine being neutral (like Switzerland or India), he always wanted Ukraine to be part of Russia, either as a puppet state or as part of the russian "federation". Becoming neutral is just one step before entering the russian sphere of influence.

As in, Elon Musk's plan is a no go. There are two kind of putin enablers. Those that get paid for it and those that have fallen prey of the FUD campaign (probably Musk is in the later camp).

I am not a warmonger, the only place where said conflicts are nice are in videogames or movies. But giving in to the fear is what bullies like putin want and should never get. He has led his country to become another North Korea (unless russians get a spine and do with him like they did with the Czars). Actions should have consequences, otherwise there is no reason to not keep doing whatever you want.

[Last Sinner]

I'm guessing the 'annexation' of 15% is trial grounds for China 'annexing' Taiwan. And I'm guessing somehow Roger Waters will say that is Taiwan's fault like he's blaming the Ukraine invasion on Ukraine.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Even though the washington post is not 100% accurate (no newspaper is), I think it is more feasible that they are right and Elon Musk is lying (he has done so before in twitter, anyone here remembers when he said he had secured saudi arabia funding to make tesla private)

Let's for a moment entertain the thought that musk payed said "tens of millions worth" of equipment, even then he is making a profit thanks to all the worldwide free publicity his internet service got, simple business sense.

You can entertain whatever thoughts you like but the facts of the matter remain. Ukraine begged Musk for critical communication equipment and he delivered at great cost.

https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/...43633293266944

The USA was ejected from Vietnam (to never return), is that such a diffficult concept to grasp?

The US was not an invader in the Vietnam war.

That is a funny one, you really believe the USA did not partake in any major more military adventures for decades after vietnam because there were no opportunities? One example of how scared the USA was of starting any major conflict was the invasion of Granada or the special military operation to oust panama strongman Manuel Noriega by reagan, those were smallish well planed operations with little room for failure. Had the Vietnam war been successful Lybia or Iran would have come next.

You explicitly stated the US did not take part in any major conflict for decades after the Vietnam war.

Reading comprehension problems much? I clearly stated putin is the egomaniac with world domination dreams. The average russian is no such devil, as can be seen by the thousand fleeing the draft. One thing is buy a Z flag or shirt because the mass media tells them it is the patriotic thing to do and another one is to want to kill people they consider their slavic brothers.

And again, Putin is not a caricature with glowing eyes, horns and plans for world domination. You are too caught up in wartime propaganda.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I mean Ukraine has made clear their war aims are strictly retaking their territory that Russia has illegally annexed. Russia could accommodate that simply by returning to their pre-2014 borders, and not a single boot of a foreign soldier would set foot in Russia's internationally recognized territory. Russia could probably also get sanctions lifted if they leveraged both gas and what Ukrainian citizens they've effectively mass abducted.

The point is what do you think it would realistically take for Russia to accept a return to the pre-2014 borders.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ramlaen

The point is what do you think it would realistically take for Russia to accept a return to the pre-2014 borders.

If your point is the 2014 borders what's with all the whinging about unconditional surrender?

As for your question. If Russia lacks the effective military combat power to hold all the Ukrainian territory they just annexed, then chances are by the time they lose all that territory their military prospects of defending Crimea from the Ukrainians will be not so great. Especially if they predominantly have to rely on conscripts like this to defend it.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

The obvious way to defeat Putin, in my opinion, is by engaging him in very public televised peace talks and put his moral compass to the test. One wrong answer and his political popularity would suffer. If I told him directly that the Ukraine will never join NATO and thus this war should come to a swift end, then he would be forced to publicly agree or attempt to make a contrived excuse to keep the war going. Then it would be plain as day that he had imperial intentions all along.

This makes it clear you haven't paid attention at all. His in-country public stance is that he's de-nazifying Ukraine. There's no public mention of NATO at all. That's just his excuse globally. And that's all it is, an excuse. He just wants to reunite the USSR.

Ah man... I am too late! =( But I gotta say, it is crazy how effective the main stream media is at brainwashing and stripping the masses of their ability to think critically. You would think that Elon's statements would be regarded as common sense, since they could avert a possible nuclear war, yet people are unconsciously/robotically favoring the corporate narrative that only leads to escalation and maybe a nuclear holocausts.

Did you actually call it common sense, and then immediately begin disagreeing with it?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

I'm considering a career change by moving back to Ottawa and work for DND (defense) rather than stick in Manila (considering who's the president).

I thank my Japanese poli sci prof in Vancouver for inspiring me to do my Masters in Strategic Studies.

Sadly, doing private intelligence/political think tank research nowadays requires a Masters, which is why I decided to study in Singapore.

Military sector lobbyist think tanks?

Well......I wish you luck walking the straight path then.

Color me surprised though, why for the military sector rather than for socio-humanitarian organizations or diplomatic circles? Strategic studies fits both kinds easily.

[Yu Ominae]

Nah. It's more of Defense Intelligence. XD

I've done private intelligence/risk management and I volunteered to investigate social media stuff from Afghanistan after Kabul was captured by the Taliban.

If I wanted to lobby, I should've joined Lockheed Martin. They're trying to campaign to replace the F-18 in Canadian Air Force service.

[Sheba]

Ethnic cleansing and human shields

https://twitter.com/niktwick/status/...r-N8-Ww1plg_XQ

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Ethnic cleansing and human shields

https://twitter.com/niktwick/status/...r-N8-Ww1plg_XQ

Never fear, putin appeasers will come with new and novel soundbites to humanize putin's actions. Because, make no mistake, this was either the idea or was directly approved by the micromanager in chief, who will do increasingly atrocious actions to prevent Ukraine from retaking Crimea, since that piece of land is the cornerstone of his dreams of an imperial russia. Letting him keep Crimea will only prolong this madness.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Ethnic cleansing and human shields

https://twitter.com/niktwick/status/...r-N8-Ww1plg_XQ

Don't worry. They'll be much safer in Crimea, what with all the gangs of ex-convict soldiers deserting to go on crime sprees.

[Key Board]

Wouldn’t this galvanize some parents who until now, just wanted to stay low and wait the war out

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