Danganronpa - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Guido]

The end approaches.

At least, I have one of my theories partially confirmed.

Spoiler:

Kirigiri is making an eventual recovery of her memories being labeled the Super Duper Highschooler Detective.

She had her memory altered because her detective skills would become a nuisance against the mastermind, so the mastermind originally intended to have Naegi killed, but Kirigiri thwarted that attempt.

I do not know for certain if the mastermind, then driven to a corner, killed Ikusaba Mukuro. At least, I can theorize that the mastermind had Ikusaba's Mukuro corpse placed where the surviving teens found it.

The fact with Kirigiris' memories being recovered greatly suports my previous theory that the other teens had also their memories altered, and add the photos of themselves being friendly towards each other when supposedly they have never met before even confirms as true my theory.

We have more facts:
1. The Principal was Kirigiri's father.
2. She lost contact with him for a time, which would likely explain the two year timeframe when the Super Duper Incident happened at the school.
3. She had herself scouted in order to enter Hope's Peak Academy as a participating student to find out clues about what happened to her father.

If MonoBear had to end the classroom trial in such unreasonable conditions in order to make a culprit out of Naegi and have him executed, then the mastermind is in a dire situation at being checkmated. Hence, that would explain MonoBear's special rule for the last classroom trial to have the survivors solved all the mysteries; it's an all or nothing gamble for both sides.

I have to be honest with my theories:

Spoiler:

I haven't ever played the games or read the manga, but what I'm theorizing doesn't come out as simple hunch.

I believe the mastermind might be a female behind all of this.

In this episode and the previous one, MonoBear has been having changes noted by the students with keen observation. Although getting driven to the edge, might as well trigger psychological changes due to fear and anxiety building-up, as one whether be male or female loses self-control in the actions.

But with a little bit of substance, MonoBear notes that it's getting bored of the usual cycle of classroom trials, and added the special rule for the finalé to make things more interesting to the audience.

At least, I can state that the mastermind is an attention seeker and went to a great deal of trouble to create such an unescapable environment, then luring the unsuspecting participants, and have all the times the rules enforced in order to make progress into the game going smoothly.

The mastermind is going to such lengths and troubles to make the murder TV show pleasurable according to "her" standard of entertainment and not dissapointing fans, and performing executions with some degree of style. Although "she" rejoices when the teens are slumped into despairing situations, still "she" throws tantrums whenever developments do not go according to "her" plan or sudden twists happenning that interfere with "her" fun, such as Alter-Ego malfunctioning Naegi's execution device in order to save him from death.

[~Yami~]

rushed.... it will be better if they split this episode into two episodes... one to explain Naegi's guilty trial... one for his rescue

many potentials are wasted... although it's still decent and enough to give some explanation about the improvement of relationship between Naegi and Kirigiri.. yes!!! Ship is sailing!!!

Byakuya just lost his place in late episode.... emerging as one of genius and calm person... now he really looks weak... He should gain his composure... I'm hoping him to play part in pushing Monokuma in final trials

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Guido

3. She had herself scouted in order to enter Hope's Peak Academy as a participating student to find out clues about what happened to her father.

I must have missed the point where they said it, either way its a mistake made by the anime.
The reason why she wanted to meet him was

Spoiler for Reason - Should have been while climbing the ladder:

to break off contact with him entirely, telling him she no longer considers him her father.

[Sute443]

I was waiting for someone else to mention it, but it looks like nobody is going to, so... Monokuma was talking to somebody off-screen in the last scene. Now, if it's true that the only ones to have set foot alive in Hope's Peak during this game are 16 students, doesn't that mean that Monokuma is being controlled by someone outside the school? Inside the school we have Naegi, Kirigiri, Asahina, Hagakure, Fukawa, and Togami, who were all in the cafeteria, and then we have whichever one is alive of Junko or Mukuro (if either of them is alive), who would presumably be the person off-screen. So either someone ELSE we think is dead is still alive, or there are more people involved in the game than we've been shown.

[Solitaired]

Up till this point. Do you still believe there's still another brand new character? If not, then the mastermind must be one of the students.

Also what do you mean by him talking to someone else offscreen? The scene after the ED? If so, then he is talking to us, the viewers.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sute443

I was waiting for someone else to mention it, but it looks like nobody is going to, so... Monokuma was talking to somebody off-screen in the last scene. Now, if it's true that the only ones to have set foot alive in Hope's Peak during this game are 16 students, doesn't that mean that Monokuma is being controlled by someone outside the school? Inside the school we have Naegi, Kirigiri, Asahina, Hagakure, Fukawa, and Togami, who were all in the cafeteria, and then we have whichever one is alive of Junko or Mukuro (if either of them is alive), who would presumably be the person off-screen. So either someone ELSE we think is dead is still alive, or there are more people involved in the game than we've been shown.

I will say something to that as soon as I know whether they cut it.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Sute443

I was waiting for someone else to mention it, but it looks like nobody is going to, so... Monokuma was talking to somebody off-screen in the last scene. Now, if it's true that the only ones to have set foot alive in Hope's Peak during this game are 16 students, doesn't that mean that Monokuma is being controlled by someone outside the school? Inside the school we have Naegi, Kirigiri, Asahina, Hagakure, Fukawa, and Togami, who were all in the cafeteria, and then we have whichever one is alive of Junko or Mukuro (if either of them is alive), who would presumably be the person off-screen. So either someone ELSE we think is dead is still alive, or there are more people involved in the game than we've been shown.

Considering the fact that Monokuma remained inexplicably inactive for the whole time when the last murder happened and considering that everyone had an alibi except Naegi and Kirigiri (which are hardly the culprits) I say that the puppetmaster is definitely inside the school.

As Kirigiri said the victim was supposed to be Naegi, when that failed the puppetmaster had to be "creative" and used a corpse among the many that he had already collected.

There is another hint about that. Every night Monokuma announced the start of nighttime and at that particular time he always sealed a particular area: that is the cafeteria and kitchen annexed. Why that particular area? But I guess it could also have been to let the 16th student eat without risking to be discovered.

[Solitaired]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There is another hint about that. Every night Monokuma announced the start of nighttime and at that particular time he always sealed a particular area: that is the cafeteria and kitchen annexed. Why that particular area? But I guess it could also have been to let the 16th student eat without risking to be discovered.

But this contradicts the theory you made in the other thread. If I'm not wrong, Night Time is there for students to have an "easier" time to murder. This game is practically the werewolf game combine with battle royale elements.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Solitaired

But this contradicts the theory you made in the other thread. If I'm not wrong, Night Time is there for students to have an "easier" time to murder. This game is practically the werewolf game combine with battle royale elements.

Uh? Where's the contradiction? And how exactly Monokuma made killing easier during nighttime?

If there's anyone that made it easier, that's Celes with her rule (which very few respected anyway), not Monokuma.

[Solitaired]

The werewolf game is a deduction game. In Japan's version (not sure about other places), usually 10-20 people will take part in it.

Take a 18-player game for example:

5 players belong to the Werewolf Team: 4 x Werewolf, 1 x Worshipper
12 players belong to the Human Team: 6 x Villagers, 1 x Hunter, 1 x Detective, 1 x Spirit Medium, 2 x Partner, 1 x Nekomata
Last player belongs to the Demon Fox Team on his own

Villagers: No special powers
Detective: Able to pick 1 player each turn to ask about their role. If it is Werewolf, all players simply know about his role. If it is Demon Fox, it dies. Every other role will come out as Villagers.
Partners: Know who each other is. No other powers.
Spirit Medium: When a character is killed every turn, he can check their roles. If it is Werewolf, it will be revealed as Werewolf. Every other roles will come out as Villagers.
Hunter: Can pick any player besides himself to protect. If that person was chosen to die, he will be protected. If the Werewolf is picked, the Hunter dies.
Nekomata: If was chosen to be killed by the Werewolf, the Werewolf dies together with Nekomata. If Nekomata was executed wrongly, a random player is executed as well.
Werewolf: Come out during Night Time each turn and decide together on which player to kill. Unable to kill the Demon Fox.
Worshipper: No special powers, other than being in the Werewolf Team. If all Werewolves are killed, the team loses even if the Worshipper still lives.
Demon Fox: Can only be killed by the Detective, no other special powers.

Rules:
A narrator exists to narrate the entire game movements. Each turn the werewolves decide on who to kill. Start of new turn, the player is killed (eliminated). Only the Demon Fox, or protected players can't be killed. Regardless, the rest of the players will have to deduce who is the werewolf through discussions. During discussions, players can reveal their own roles, or lie about it. At the end, if the werewolf is correctly found, it will be killed. The wrongly accused will be executed. You will only know if you picked correctly through the Spirit Medium, though if he is killed early, gg. Human Team wins once the Demon Fox and Werewolves are killed. Werewolf Team wins when the Demon Fox is killed, and the number of players in the Human Team equals their own. Demon Fox wins when all Werewolves are dead.

Battle Royale is a manga where a group of students have to kill each other and only the last survivor can get to live.


TL;DR Basically, Danganronpa's is a combination of the werewolf game and battle royale manga. Not Phoenix Wright as many would think. Werewolf game is where each "night" someone will be killed when everyone else is sleeping. Only the culprits are awake. Thus, this is why Danganronpa has the Night Time. Nothing to do with the Mastermind.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Solitaired

TL;DR Basically, Danganronpa's is a combination of the werewolf game and battle royale manga. Not Phoenix Wright as many would think. Werewolf game is where each "night" someone will be killed when everyone else is sleeping. Only the culprits are awake. Thus, this is why Danganronpa has the Night Time. Nothing to do with the Mastermind.

The problem with this is that once someone enters his/her own room, they are unkillable, unless they let themselves be tricked. No one can simply enter someone else's room and kill the sleeping person, because the doors to the bedrooms are locked and have an anti-lockpicking-system included too. So at night time the own bedroom is the safest place.... the mastermind has his ways to enter though...

[Jan-Poo]

While there are similarities with the werewolf game ultimately danganronpa is not a werewolf game. There are many things that simply are not the same, for example there are no preset roles, the victory and losing conditions are completely different and people can actually investigate the crime scenes and determine the culprit using clues rather than simply analyzing other people's behaviors.

Besides there is at least one person that wasn't killed during nighttime at all (Yamada) and another (Sakura) that while being the victim in a trial didn't die during a night phase.

In addition several people were awake during nighttime when a crime occurred. For example Togami witnessed Mondo, which is something that can't possibly happen in a werewolf game unless someone cheats and pretty much everyone but Naegi was awake during the last "murder".

In the end I don't see much merit in thinking too hard about Danganronpa as a werewolf game.

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Solitaired

Up till this point. Do you still believe there's still another brand new character? If not, then the mastermind must be one of the students.

Also what do you mean by him talking to someone else offscreen? The scene after the ED? If so, then he is talking to us, the viewers.

It would be very odd if there were an unannounced character, but Monokuma was clearly talking to someone off-screen ("You'd better keep your word") for a moment before going back to talking to the students.

Also, please note that I was not talking about the mastermind at all; I was talking about the person controlling Monokuma. Considering that he seemed concerned the person he was talking to might break their word, I think there's reason to believe that the mastermind and Monokuma's controller are not the same person.

And I didn't see any scene after the ED in the version I watched, so I wouldn't know about that.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Considering the fact that Monokuma remained inexplicably inactive for the whole time when the last murder happened and considering that everyone had an alibi except Naegi and Kirigiri (which are hardly the culprits) I say that the puppetmaster is definitely inside the school.

Yeah, that does make things odd.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

As Kirigiri said the victim was supposed to be Naegi, when that failed the puppetmaster had to be "creative" and used a corpse among the many that he had already collected.

There is another hint about that. Every night Monokuma announced the start of nighttime and at that particular time he always sealed a particular area: that is the cafeteria and kitchen annexed. Why that particular area? But I guess it could also have been to let the 16th student eat without risking to be discovered.

It was established early on that the kitchen is restocked every night, so obviously the mastermind wouldn't want any of the students in there when whatever access door the person who does the restocking uses is open.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sute443

It would be very odd if there were an unannounced character, but Monokuma was clearly talking to someone off-screen ("You'd better keep your word") for a moment before going back to talking to the students.

Actually, the animators made a mistake and thought it was a good idea to make Monokuma tilt his head a bit, but since he doesn't have "eyes", it doesn't look like your usual head tilt, because he was supposed to stare at them. Generally this pose would work with a normal character (the usual snide smile while head tilting), but not on Monokuma, especially with goofy budget.
Monokuma tells the students that so he wouldn't be disappointed by the "final". He was not talking to anyone else.

I'm not doing this to purposedly shot down your theory, but I have to correct a mistake done by the anime.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Sute443

It was established early on that the kitchen is restocked every night, so obviously the mastermind wouldn't want any of the students in there when whatever access door the person who does the restocking uses is open.

That's what I used to think but if there are no other persons except the 16 students inside the school then such person, servants, minions or whatever do not exist.

[Dengar]

tl;dr

People probably forgot all about the fact that pinning the wrong culprit would normally get everyone killed, so Kirigiri never threw anyone "under the bus, I mean she had no way of knowing the trial would be rigged.

[Sute443]

@Klashikari

Okay then. Thanks for the correction.