(L) Makai Senki Disgaea

[Daniel E.]

I guess it's time to blame the promos.

They sure drove some peoples expectations quite high.

[Access]

Yeah I have nothing against a new story, having already played the game. I just wish it wasn't so contrived, it doesn't seem like they captured the essence behind the characters at all. It seems like a typical 'bag-of-tricks' plot with no real coherence or thought by the creators into who is doing what and why. Unless this one is a slow starter, all I can say is the jokes draw more groans than laughs and the plot seems to be ignoreable.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by LordStrafe

Hmmm. I like the show, for what it is. But... I have to say, I think I'm a little disappointed w/ AnimeU's translation.
They take a lot of liberties, which I tend to not be fond of. "Bring it, don't sing it"? Ugh... If I wanted to watch an Americanized translation, I'd wait for Viz to sub it...

Which, I guess, is a little harsh to say about AnimeU. I'm sure they work hard on it and everything. I just wish they didn't take so many liberties. That, and the font they use is a little hard to read.

AnimeU did the same thing in Shuffle! Sometimes it worked when they were channeling the "spirit" of the comment, having the character say it the way an American might convey the same thought. Thats a risky road and can lead to unintended meaning though. There's no real answer to that, some people prefer as literal as translation as possible adjusted for grammar, others prefer more flair.

Thats why I like to see more than one group subbing a series - for comparative translations. I pretty much view their work as "more of a set of guidelines than an actual code" (Jack Sparrow )

Having seen the first ep... listened to what was said versus what was written.... in some cases I thought it was an improvement over the actual dialog. Other than the cute character designs of Flonne and Etona (sp?), I don't see a lot to recommend yet. I'll give it the usual 3 eps. Caveat: I've not ever even seen the game so I have zero expectations or prejudice.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Vexx

AnimeU did the same thing in Shuffle! Sometimes it worked when they were channeling the "spirit" of the comment, having the character say it the way an American might convey the same thought. Thats a risky road and can lead to unintended meaning though. There's no real answer to that, some people prefer as literal as translation as possible adjusted for grammar, others prefer more flair.

....

Having seen the first ep... listened to what was said versus what was written.... in some cases I thought it was an improvement over the actual dialog. Other than the cute character designs of Flonne and Etona (sp?), I don't see a lot to recommend yet. I'll give it the usual 3 eps. Caveat: I've not ever even seen the game so I have zero expectations or prejudice.

Fansubbers are supposed to translate the anime. Not localize it. If there is something there that doesnt translate, only then should it be converted to an english equivalent.

Ex: Pettanko does not mean "flat as a board". It means flat-chested.

That said... when I said they took artistic license, that was a nice way of saying: They made up a good part of the translation. It was HORRENDOUSLY bad.

[DragoonKain3]

Having watched all (to my knowledge anyway) of AnimeU's translated anime, I have grown to like it. At first, it's pretty jarring, since fansub watchers including myself are so used to literal translations. Later on one'll get used to it at least, just like one'll get to used to some groups not doing karaoke or others cutting out 'this program has been brought to you by' sequences. In this person's opinion, I think AnimeU's liberties with the translation is what makes AnimeU, well, AnimeU. Makes them stand out pretty well from the rest of the fansub scene. Some won't like it, but hey, no one's forcing them to watch AnimeU's translation, no? And considering, as of this writing, 2.2k peers are seeders alone for the disgaea episode, I think they're content, if not quite happy with AnimeU's subs.

Fansubbers are supposed to translate the anime. Not localize it.

All due respect, but there isn't any rule that restricts fansubbers on how the want to translate their subs. If they want to incorporate some English slang into it, then that's their right. After all, they're doing this for free, and so what say do we have in how they do things?

As long as they carry the spirit of the original message, as long as the dialogue exchange makes sense, and as long as the grammar is understandable, this person has no problem with whatever they want to do with their translations.

BTW, 'flat as a board' and 'flat-chested' mean pretty much the same thing, no? XD

[Js2756]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Fansubbers are supposed to translate the anime. Not localize it. If there is something there that doesnt translate, only then should it be converted to an english equivalent.

As having worked in fansubbing before, this is wrong. Being able to add proper characterization to the characters in a series goes a long way in differentiating between a good sub, and a simple literal sub. How people perceive the characters will be influenced by how the dialogue is translated. For a lot of shows, if you just literally translate everything word for word, the characters come off as stiff and lifeless. It is part of the job of the translators to bring to the translation the characterization in the show. For example, in historical pieces, it isn't easy to portray the difference between upper class/nobility with common folk/peasants if the translation is done literally word for word. The translators have to take some liberties to ensure that the proper dialogue is written to convey the difference in characters and class.

[rooboy]

I have a question about the game (I know it's a thread for the anime, but I'm hoping one of you can just answer it quickly). Is it localized for the US and what platform is it on?

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I have a question about the game (I know it's a thread for the anime, but I'm hoping one of you can just answer it quickly). Is it localized for the US and what platform is it on?

The game has been out for years in English. It is available for the PS2.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Some won't like it, but hey, no one's forcing them to watch AnimeU's translation, no? And considering, as of this writing, 2.2k peers are seeders alone for the disgaea episode, I think they're content, if not quite happy with AnimeU's subs.

They are the only sub available so far and its far easier to grab a fansub than to leech a raw. Also, thousands leech the bleech subber of the week, this doesn't make it good.

All due respect, but there isn't any rule that restricts fansubbers on how the want to translate their subs. If they want to incorporate some English slang into it, then that's their right. After all, they're doing this for free, and so what say do we have in how they do things?

As long as they carry the spirit of the original message, as long as the dialogue exchange makes sense, and as long as the grammar is understandable, this person has no problem with whatever they want to do with their translations.

You are right, there is no set rule. But not inventing translations is a rule. There were some very creative translations there.

BTW, 'flat as a board' and 'flat-chested' mean pretty much the same thing, no? XD

Yes, and no. "Flat as a board" is usually used more in a insulting manner and "flat-chested" is usually used more in a descriptive manner.

Originally Posted by Js2756

As having worked in fansubbing before, this is wrong. Being able to add proper characterization to the characters in a series goes a long way in differentiating between a good sub, and a simple literal sub. How people perceive the characters will be influenced by how the dialogue is translated. For a lot of shows, if you just literally translate everything word for word, the characters come off as stiff and lifeless. It is part of the job of the translators to bring to the translation the characterization in the show.

I am not saying that a not literal sub != good. I am saying inventing dialogue for a character = horrible translation. Examples being adding curse words when there were none. There is another group that tends to do this to songs by running the words through a thesaurus after translation. The songs lose a lot when they do this. People are not that stupid that they need to the subs to be in the characters method of speaking (except when they speak in very bizzare ways which does not happen in this show.) Flonne is cute (and her literal dialogue is) and Laharl is a cheeky bastard (and he is literally short spoken, to the point, and rough).

For example, in historical pieces, it isn't easy to portray the difference between upper class/nobility with common folk/peasants if the translation is done literally word for word. The translators have to take some liberties to ensure that the proper dialogue is written to convey the difference in characters and class.

A proper literal translation WOULD give off these differences because they are very clearly indiciated in the Japanese. A literal translation includes every single nuance that is in the original. This is how you can tell a good translation from a bad one.

Don't sing it, bring it. vs Bring it on. The left one is what was put, the right was what was literally said. They carry almost the same everything except one is what he exactly said one and is what the editor put. The left actually loses the whole being to the point part.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by bayoab

A proper literal translation WOULD give off these differences because they are very clearly indiciated in the Japanese. A literal translation includes every single nuance that is in the original. This is how you can tell a good translation from a bad one.

Nevermind the fact that words in Asian languages carry more meaning than words in Western languages. A literal translation would fill up the entire screen with detailed analyses of each word.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Yes, and no. "Flat as a board" is usually used more in a insulting manner and "flat-chested" is usually used more in a descriptive manner.

I have dated literally a ton of girls, and I have never met one who considered flat-chested anything but insulting (unless they just didn't care one way or the other). I think what you meant to say was that "Flat as a board" is _more_ insulting than "flat-chested", which I'd agree with.

Originally Posted by bayoab

I am not saying that a not literal sub != good. I am saying inventing dialogue for a character = horrible translation. Examples being adding curse words when there were none.

I hate when subbing groups add curse words because they assume that everyone uses them every fifth word.

But then, if it really bothers you, why not just listen to it RAW? That's what I do whenever I don't like the subbing.

[Vexx]

aye... the only real reason I even look at subs is to pick one to share with friends who can't follow the dialog. So for them I pick the translation that comes closest to my interpretation of what was said. Thats why I prefer it when multiple groups sub ... most of the better ones crosscheck against each other anyway. Usually I prefer one over the other for most of the eps but occasionally I've selected a different group's effort because a particular sequence was handled more to my liking.

[Green²]

Spoiler for Ep.1 - NSFW:

Look, look, -- Words down here!

Over here, - Thank you. Actually, I forgot what I was going to say. Probably cum back to me later...



Ok, so that's like, kryptonite to Superman. I don't think I like the looks of -



Phew... that was a close one. For a second there I almost thought -



oh no...

http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?i...isgaea55gd.gif

nOOOO!.. ... .. ... It's the poison, it's for the poison, the poison. GAH!, Yes, can be only that.

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

I guess it's time to blame the promos.

They sure drove some peoples expectations quite high.

Slightly funny, generally amusing as seen of the first episode myself. Though if down for the others, eh, I'm sure we'll find ways for them to get it back up.

[Juan Valdez]

Regarding the fansub, it seemed to me that AnimeU was trying to capture the feel of Atlus' translation of the game. As someone who played Disgaea, the fact that AnimeU used English idioms and figures of speech in their translation made the sub seem more familiar than a literal translation would have been. All and all I liked their translation, even if they took a few creative liberties.

As for the show itself... Meh... I'll give it a chance since I was such a huge fan of the game, but the first episode was a letdown.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I have dated literally a ton of girls, and I have never met one who considered flat-chested anything but insulting (unless they just didn't care one way or the other). I think what you meant to say was that "Flat as a board" is _more_ insulting than "flat-chested", which I'd agree with.
I hate when subbing groups add curse words because they assume that everyone uses them every fifth word.

But then, if it really bothers you, why not just listen to it RAW? That's what I do whenever I don't like the subbing.

I figured he intended to be insulting of Flonne, since almost everything he says to her is in some way insulting.

I haven't seen gratuitous additional profanity too much, though I'd be annoyed if I came across it. In Shuffle!, I remember Mayumi using the word "suck" a lot when the literal translation was rather mild but phrases like "my lunches suck, so what?" just really fit her straightforward personality. On the other hand.... using the word "sweetheart" when almost every dictionary I consulted and two JP teachers suggested "lover" (no, they don't mean the same thing) and the context of the scene heavily implied "lover" -- (Mayumi's "Rin's Lovers" dialog in Shuffle!) is subtracting meaning from the scene.

I suppose we're in danger of derailing the thread into translation wars. In general if you know enough to realize something is being translated oddly - I'd say give yourself a cookie: you're moving into a larger world.

[Eclipze]

Apparently AnimeU has released a v2. of Disgaea episode 01. Anybody noticed a difference in the translation?

[KBTKaiser]

they caught Holy Arrow and Blazing Knuckle...wasn't that Wind Cutter that Laharl used against the Gargoyle?

[Chiibi]

There was no thread so I started one.^_^ What'd you guys think of the first episode?
I thought it was f***ing HILARIOUS. The animation isn't the best but I wasn't expecting it to be. This series feels like it's not a big dramatic thing but it's just for fun. And it is. I was afraid they'd give Leharl an annoying high-pitched voice but he got a good seiyuu. I thought the music was good too.

The best part was

Spoiler:

Leharl can't handle big breasts!! LMAO! The way the his old man died was funny too. XD

*Edit*

Damn, I feel stupid. Should have searched for the thread but I didn't know "Disagea" was only part of the title.
Oh yeah, and you guys who don't like it, will you stop bitching and go watch something else? :P

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Apparently AnimeU has released a v2. of Disgaea episode 01. Anybody noticed a difference in the translation?

They fixed the typesetting (its actually readable now!), that one line ~10 min and some of the typos in the op. Otherwise, it seems to be pretty much the same... oh no wait it isnt. There is randomly added -'s for characters. i.e "There is no way..." became "There is -o way".

[Munchkin]

About Anime Universe's subs... the reason why a lot of you (and myself) do not agree with them is because they "translated" it exactlly how Atlus did in the English released game.
The English "translation" in the game is very poorly done. It is actually dub-titles and there is no text-string for the actual JP voice-overs. Atlus re-did a lot of the dialogue to make it "fit" for American audiences.

I have only watched AU's promo, so I am gonna assume they carried a lot of it over to the actual episode.
For example, Vyers does not call himself the "Dark Adonis" in Japanese. He calls himself the "Beauty Danshaku" which means "Beauty Baron". AU used the game's English term for that, which isn't a correct translation.
A lot of the other things where "stretched out" for instances when Etna just says "Prinny's come on!" AU has it say "Prinny's get your butts over here!". That in itself isn't a correct translation, although it is trying to portray the same image. Another one is "Etna, the castle went boom"... and there are many other things that other people pointed out.
And I don't know if it was brought up yet, but, Atlus also "translated" "Heaven" as "Celestia". Just is something to look out for in case it ever comes up.

But one thing everyone seems to have a problem is translating "denka" which would really mean "your highness". /shrug

AU's sub will probably be liked by the people that liked Atlus's dub. It has that "quirk" like the dub has, which is really a love or hate thing.
I, myself, are waiting until another group does it because I do not like having "dubtitles" shoved down my throat.