2010-09-06, 01:28 | Link #281 | |
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But still Shunsui is still a very strong Captain I honestly think he may be at a higher level then most of the captains him and Unohana Last edited by EnchantingPrincess; 2010-09-06 at 02:22. |
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2010-09-06, 02:37 | Link #282 | |||
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Case in point here is that without a clearly explained and plausible power up (such as undergoing hollowfication or using "jinzen" to power up), there's no way Hitsugaya should've been able to improve so much as to go from being 6th Espada level at best to being able to hold his own against a released #3 given only roughly 2 months to train. Especially if you consider the fact that it's still taken him years to become as strong as he is now. On another note, let's try to put what Slayerx stated into perspective a little bit. Ichigo's base speed and strength (prior to his current power up) was already on an average Captain lvl--likely on par with Hitsugaya. He proved this the moment he quickly and easily took down several shikai wielding VC's unarmed. He has a Bankai that specializes in high speed combat and makes him so fast, that not even one of the fastest among the Gotei 13 can keep up. Now against a Bankai Vizard Ichigo, this speed increase (which should already be far beyond that of an average captain) only becomes significantly greater. #4 at lvl 1 release alone was so fast, even Bankai Vizard Ichigo couldn't keep up. (This is the same Ichigo who should be several times faster than someone of Hitsugaya's caliber.) So based on this, should Hitsugaya really have stood a chance against #3 if the power levels actually remained consistent and made sense? Quote:
Considering how long it took Hitsugaya to become as strong as he is now (which has got to be about 35 years since he's entered the Gotei 13), I'd say 100 years will probably make him 2.5 - 3 times stronger based on his current rate of growth. So if Shunsui feels he's somewhere between 2-3 times stronger than Hitsugaya, Stark should've still been able to wipe the floor with him if his strength level was represented the way Slayerx and I are suggesting. Because Halibel alone should've already been around 4-5 times stronger and faster than Hitsugaya. Last edited by sayde; 2010-09-06 at 02:55. |
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2010-09-06, 02:49 | Link #283 | |
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But at the end of the day, the measuring stick is Ichigo who was just below Byakuya who has been often championed as one of the stronger captains (Toshiro has come off as one of the weaker ones). The relationship between Shunsui and Toshiro is irrelevant, as only ichigo and byakuya matters.... unless you want to also claim that Shunsui is also VASTLY more powerful than Byakuya... and then there's ukitake who is often played as being on par with Shunsui and he go one shotted by a sneak attack Not to mention that Love and Rose were Captains 100 years ago and as such should be in the upper teir of fighters by now... and that's without considering their masks And this also doesn't change the points I've been making about Toshiro being able to survive as long as he did against Halibel who should have CRUSHED him in a few seconds And that's still besides the point... |
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2010-09-06, 03:21 | Link #284 | |
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And besides, the point I was making is that it isn't such a shock that Shunsui beat Stark so easily. And I mentioned the Shunsui vs. Toshiro power levels because: it was Toshiro who said "VL's are more powerful than a captain." If Toshiro was using HIMSELF to make that comparison, then it's possible he under-represented a captain's power in relation to a VL's power. (as you said, Toshiro is one of the weaker ones) AND, since Shunsui is more way more powerful than Toshiro, it's not THAT hard to believe he could have beaten Stark. I agree with you about the whole Toshiro vs. Halibel thing, tho. But I'll just chalk it up to the kid being real lucky that his opponent had water-based attacks, which he use against her. |
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2010-09-06, 04:02 | Link #286 | |||
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And about the bankai'd Ichigo vs. #4 comparison, as relating to Shunsui vs. Stark: I still believe Shunsui should be perfectly capable of beating Stark. Beating someone isn't all about power or speed, though I'm sure Shunsui's got power and speed up the wazoo. It's also about technique, tactics, and experience. Shunsui's got MORE than 300 years as a CAPTAIN. Ichi may be a fast learner, but I don't think pre-FGT Ichi was up to Shunsui's fighting capabilities. Of course, this may just be the Shunsui fangirl in me talking.... Forgive me for defending him, but I sure do love the guy. |
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2010-09-06, 04:14 | Link #287 |
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The only way any of this makes sense if Uliquiorra, Noitora, and Grimmjow were the embodiment of physical abilities and Stark, Barragan, and Tia were the embodiment of god-like kido abilities. That's the only way to explain the #1-3 espada's apparently complete lack of strength or speed compared to #4-6.
Tia: had to "gather up" before managing to blow-back Toshiro. Was being fought on equal physical ground by two vice captains without masks on. Stark: apparently not capable of bursts of speed like #4-6, sword fighting seems to be in slow motion. Barragan: basically did nothing. Ran away from Omaeda's stupid spiked ball when any captain worth their salt would be able to block it with their bare hands. Another thing is, Espada #4-6 were very willing to take physical hits when they sensed their opponent was not physically strong, and were used to blocking attacks with their bare hands. Espada #1-3 seemed to be wary of even being hit by even low-level vice captains, when we know even Ichigo can block a vice captain's shikai with his bare hands. The behavior makes no sense, if you consider how #1-3s got cornered in a few instances because they kept dodging attacks from VCs and left their backs open. So either Espada #1-3 have no combat sense, or they know they can't even take a hit from a VC. |
2010-09-06, 04:15 | Link #288 |
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And Shunsui and Shinji are of the same age and class!
And he was vizard, "training" 100 years to have revenge.... Power levels in bleach makes no sense whatsoever! Ulq said he was regenerating type, the best of all arancars, so the first 3 should have more power. Excluding Baragan which was very haxed, and not killable by other not super kidou users... |
2010-09-06, 06:02 | Link #290 | |
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The last several pages:
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2010-09-06, 07:19 | Link #292 | |
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Regardless, he's still unbelievably underappreciated. Kubo let Hisagi do better against Tousen, most likely because Hisagi has a bigger fanbase.
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2010-09-06, 08:23 | Link #293 | |||
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2010-09-06, 08:44 | Link #294 | ||
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The captains and Vizards could learn a thing or two from him Quote:
exactly! |
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2010-09-06, 10:17 | Link #296 | |
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It is check that again lol
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2010-09-06, 10:54 | Link #297 |
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Another thing that doesn't make sense is that:
VL = Above average captain class (above say someone like Komamura or Hitsugaya). Arrancarization is supposed to make them more powerful so VL arrancar should = Overkill and need at least 2/3 captains to take down but instead one of the weaker captains (Hitsugaya) can take down an arrancarized Vasto Lorde. But captain-class Shinigami becomes a vaizard and they're super strong, it doesn't seem fair that only Shinigami get a massive power boost when they blur the lines of shinigami and hollow. As for Komamura's bankai, having a 50 foot bankai doesn't mean shit when everyone and their grandpa's can lift 100 foot buildings (extreme exaggeration I know).
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2010-09-06, 10:59 | Link #299 | |
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Last edited by secretzfan; 2010-09-06 at 12:05. |
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2010-09-06, 11:21 | Link #300 |
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Actually, Komaura's Shikai is better than his Bankai when you think about it
His shikai manafests the various body parts of the giant armor, thus allowing him to have similar destructive power, but does not manifest the full giant... The giant ends up becoming a handicap because it's huge, slow, and whatever happens to it happens to Kamomura... ok, yes the giant probably has MUCH higher defence than Komamura himself does, but any moderatly fast fighter will be able to fly around dodging it's attacks and their smaller attacks are bound to add up in damage... I mean, Komamura may not have as high of a defnce as his armor, but he himself atleast would be able to dodge or block such attacks honestly, any smart adjucas would just stand outside of it's reach and just fire cero's at it... even the weak cero could do some damage with enough hits... now if Komamura's Bankai were able to fight more quickly, THEN it might be a worth it to have that handicap... as it stand that Bankai is only useful against really slow enemies like common gillians or Po |
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