2009-09-12, 10:01 | Link #1041 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Warsaw, PL
Age: 46
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delusions (she believe Yuuki is alive) - check hallucinations (see dead people, hear dead people) - check speech that is markedly disorganized (not at the first glance, but when you think how she sounds to somebody who is not seeing ghosts) - maybe behavior that is markedly disorganized or catatonic (not obvious because of situation, but present, at least in disorganized part) - maybe Also, common additional symptoms: impaired attention, rapidly changing mood, impaired memory for recent events. She needs help. Debriefing and - in longer term - psychotherapy. The good thing is symptoms in Brief Psychotic Disorder tend do disappear on their own within two weeks at most. |
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2009-09-12, 10:22 | Link #1042 |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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It's simple really, those who want to believe that it is fantasy then Yuuki is a ghost, those who want to keep the realism then it is a figment of Mirai's imagination ie hallucination/delusion.
I am going for the latter
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2009-09-12, 10:40 | Link #1044 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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People were discounting the realism of the show before the idea of a "ghost" ever came into the picture. I'm not going to join this "hey I have a degree in XXX therefore I am right" kind of thing, but let's just say that, yes, counting sibling grief as a cause and from my knowledge, I'm afraid I still don't find Mirai's descent into straitjacket lunacy believable - not just seeing a vision, but having an constant walking-talking hallucination of her brother. Some of you think this is believable, fine. I'm not going to bother going any further on that subject unless someone has a published scientific paper which either directly supports or refutes this phenomenon with regards to sibling bereavement with normal (healthy) people. Anecdotes and internet credential building won't lead us anywhere.
As before, Sorrow-K has effectively summed up my thoughts on this episode. I also agree that I think this kind of episode could have been moving if there weren't the whole "I see dead people" shtick hanging over it. The main issue for me personally is that I don't like feeling like what I'm watching is blatantly the work of writers, which decreases the emotional response from me, and I feel TM8 has done that starting a few episodes back because of the change, which feels too inconsistent with the earlier tone. I'm sure many of you left in this thread don't agree, but, well, that's my opinion (and probably not going to defend it any more). As for why there isn't much discussion, the debate over the change in style has already been covered, not much point in rehashing it. Most people who don't like it have probably moved on.
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2009-09-12, 10:46 | Link #1045 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2009-09-12, 11:52 | Link #1046 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hamilton, Canada
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Full Disclosure: I don't know nothin' about nothin'.
Finally seeing the subbed version, all I'm gonna say was that this anime in it's penultimate episode was something a little different from what I usually see. I honestly think they adhered to their "realism" statement in the beginning of every episode regarding the earthquake and its consequences. Yuuki dying in the way he did, while shocking and tragic and sudden, was realistic. Sort of "ripped from the Headlines" as it were (someone way upthread noticed this), but realistic. Mirai having uncontrollable (and for her, inexplicable) bouts of sadness was touching. It sort of pointed to me that she wasn't having a hallucination like I thought (or feared) in the last 2 episodes. Instead, I think she's just in shock/denial. She refused to believe that Yuuki is dead. At the same time, she's clearly talking to something that doesn't exist. I'm leaning towards Yuuki being a ghost, and that being combined with Mirai's denial playing all sorts of havoc with her emotions. But I'm sure that it'll correct itself for Mirai, in a spectacularly emotional fashion I bet. Maybe Mari will catch up with her and prevent her from doing something stupid. In any case, I enjoyed the anime for what it was and I'm looking forward to its conclusion. |
2009-09-12, 11:55 | Link #1047 |
Porcupine
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norway
Age: 65
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Well, I got all the way to Ep 10 before I came to this thread, and I thought the show was done quite well. People, Mirai is delusional. It has been shown to varying degrees since the hospital scene. You don't think that is realistic? For an immature 14 year old who has just watched her world break, who did not know whether her parents and friends were alive or dead, and then had her only brother die while she was responsible for him? I think this was done near perfectly.
Of course, if he sticks around as a ghost doing various miraculous things, I'll be annoyed too. But so far he hasn't done anything that Mirai's subconscious could not have done. I think this is one of the few cases where the Animesuki forums actually make a series LESS enjoyable. If I had read this thread before, I might not have liked the show as much as I did. |
2009-09-12, 13:52 | Link #1049 |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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Episode 10.
You know what's the difference between this show and True Tears? At least the latter tried to get back to its best before the end. I think this is diving from plotquake straight into trainwreck territory at this point. Oh, whatever. I don't care anymore. |
2009-09-12, 15:14 | Link #1050 | |||||
Banned
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I love how some people are clearly being totally fair with this show. Whatever, if this is what they want...it's just a bloody damn shame, especially now when we're starting to get people complaining of it dimishing their enjoyment of the show such that they can no longer take part in the thread. You'd even think with the sheer bloodlust that people have been going at it over this one issue that expectations would have dropped a little over the course of the last few weeks and things would even out a little in how people approach the show, but nope. It all just adds credence to my belief some people just really want to label this show a failure in a bigger they are harder they fall sort of endeavour. Me, I always take the approach that gets me the most enjoyment out of the show if it's offered, which is why I still pick delusion over ghost until proven otherwise because it fits more with the style of the show prior to it and means I get to puzzle over the possible symbolism of it, which to me is fun. If she's a ghost when then frankly that's stupid, and since I clearly heard the words "I am dead" and not "I am a ghost" it's obvious that given the option of free interpretation I'll pick the one I think best fits with the narrative instead of the one that gets me bitching endlessly about how the show is apparently a trainwreck (Not that I give any sort of weight to Trollscaloth's opinion beyond using it as an example given his tendency for only "criticizing" [stretching the definition of the word here] shows that aren't called Haruhi). I guess that's just the way I am. Quote:
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Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-09-12 at 15:44. |
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2009-09-12, 15:34 | Link #1051 | ||
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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She fabricated a surgery scenario for Yuuki as a psych barrier defense (ep. 8 flashback) that was seen as a dream which never really happened. So the real scene being shown does have some value. Yuuki was DOA. There was no waiting in the surgical waiting area or in the hospital waiting area. No surgeon to apologize. Just the morgue scene at the end was the only true part of that dream from ep.8 imo. In fact, most of what was shown after entering the hospital grounds was the dream sequence with her mind trying to let reality in and ultimately losing imo. It can go either way. Delusion or ghost. I vote ghost as the influences Yuuki had in the ep afterwards just can't be explained away by delusion. Yuuki had to come back and support Mirai's delusion until she could accept the fact that he was dead. Quote:
A delusion also does not attempt to get you back into reality. It's there to protect you from reality. Yuuki flat out told her that he was dead. That's why I vote ghost. ---- Brief Psychotic Disorder works if you don't believe in ghosts and ignore the rest of the criteria. Her speech and behavior is not disorganized imo. She's doesn't meet the criteria or age of onset imo. Just accept that this is drama and stop overextending yourselves please.
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Last edited by orion; 2009-09-12 at 16:00. |
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2009-09-12, 18:45 | Link #1052 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: US
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I think it is perfectly justifiable that some people went into this show thinking it would be something other than what it has turned out to be, and those of us whose affection waned midway through the series should be able to say so. |
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2009-09-12, 19:50 | Link #1053 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Age: 42
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend
Here is a link to information on imaginary friends and if you combine that with the Trauma that Mirai has gone through that means it would be a very realistic situation where she would create a delusion of her brother still being alive. In the part where they went to find Mari's family Mirai would have done the same thing if she wasn't seeing her brother since that is what she wanted to do so could be explained as her subconscious mind wanting to find Mari's family. Also if you pay close attention to the part where the house was collapsing the area where Mirai and Itsuki were was starting to collapse so she would have moved even without her brother there. Mirai has probably been to Yuuki's class before so would know where it is and Itsuki told her about the journal so she would want it as a memory of Yuuki.
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2009-09-12, 20:02 | Link #1054 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Without getting into med stuff, the details that you pointed out make look more like it is a ghost than an imaginary Yuuki. He kept disappearing so people wouldn't stop Mirai because they thought she was crazy. He stayed around only for Mari and at the end for his friend when he was ready to mov on. Also, in the truck ride yuuki was trying to see how Mirai would react if he told her the truth. |
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2009-09-12, 20:55 | Link #1055 | ||
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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The "normal" way out is for ghost Yuuki to be there for Mirai. Any other way would require this title to go on past 11 ep and involves psych therapy for Mirai imo. Ep. 11 is the final episode after all. Quote:
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Last edited by orion; 2009-09-12 at 21:07. |
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2009-09-12, 23:08 | Link #1057 | ||
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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So, let's see....in order, points 3, 7, 1, 4, 6 and 9 of the DSM-IV criteria for NPD. Seriously, you've been doing all the above for so long and so repetitively, it makes Endless Eight look fresh by comparison. I would ask you to forebear from such destructive behaviour and actually try to engage in constructive debate for once, but I have little hope of it being possible for you. Quote:
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2009-09-12, 23:17 | Link #1058 |
Cropduster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nomadic Existence
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Episode 10
So...he's dead. Whether ghost or hallucination is still up in the air. If he's imaginary, does that mean, in the same Mirai Vision (wish-fulfillment vein), that Mari's real mom and kid are those two bodies in the gym, and her finding them alive with the help of Yuki is a schizo-fueled delusion of Happy Ending? If he's a ghost, then the two are indeed alive & relatively well. Caveat: Spoiler:
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2009-09-13, 02:03 | Link #1059 |
The Last Visible Dog
Join Date: Aug 2004
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During my perusal of this thread, and most things regarding anime lately, the words of a wise maxim kept going through my head. Here they are, adjusted for this situation:
"If you care if Yuuki's a ghost or mirage and want it backed up with facts (lalala) Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.' It's Tokyo Magnitude 8.0(thousaaaaaand)."
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2009-09-13, 02:58 | Link #1060 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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To be honest by the end I couldn't feel any sadness for Yuki's death. Rather it was a feeling of "thank god Mirai finally got the truth thrown in her face." It's been kind of creepy watching her talk to someone that isn't there for a few episodes. Don't even want to know what the people riding on that truck were thinking while she was talking to herself. Probably "poor kid...don't stare".
The whole ghost or delusion thing might not even be really answered depending how they handle his departure in the next episode. If he vanishes could just read it as his spirit moving on or Mirai's mind erasing him. At any rate the sad thing is informing the people that Mirai has told that Yuuki the truth. Talk about bringing up their hopes and then crashing them. Especially to a friend of his like Itsuki who was probably worried and now will have to deal with having his hopes dashed. The whole disappearing thing could go either way. Either Yuki's spirit was trying to protect Mirai from having a breakdown by disappearing so people wouldn't comment on her talking to someone that wasn't there. Or Mirai's mind realized that those around her would crush her delusion if Yuki was still there so she made him vanish. Either way at some level she realized he was gone which caused the small breakdowns in the classroom. Just feels like any time I consider one path the other has a valid point. With the backpack the ghost could have realized that Mirai left it behind and fabricated a new one. Along with Mirai leaving it behind and her mind changing the delusion to having him carry it. The Mari situation could have had the ghost knowing they were alive and so pushing to search. Or Mirai's mind didn't want to accept another loss so she used the delusion to push herself to keep looking and lucked out. Anyways just glad there will be no more thinking Yuki is still alive. Though I feel for Itsuki who will probably have to deal with some more of Mirai talking to herself and falling apart.
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bones, japan, noitamina, tragedy |
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