2013-09-08, 13:30 | Link #30541 |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kazamatsuri City
Age: 28
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The education system is supposed to open up opportunities for the students. Most high-schoolers aren't going to go the library and pick up Animal Farm or something and read it if their schools don't require them. But if they are given exposure first, they might be able to relate to the concepts in the novel, find it fascinating, and develop a liking. That way, they will read fiction on their own. Still think it is important for the curriculum to have more of these fiction books.
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2013-09-08, 14:50 | Link #30542 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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One thing I agree with Ledgem on, is that a lot of literary works, especially older ones, don't just demonstrate proper usage of language, but a mastery of them. Not every work, but toss out a popular writer from history and you'll find a level of intelligence and eloquence that is often only matched by their clever social commentary. There is a reason people remember Twain or Dickens. Heck sometimes you'll find it in Playboy articles. There's a lot of trash too, of course, but there's a reason someone like Hemmingway or Shakespeare is taught. It's not just the quality of the written word, but the content as well. To see it as "fiction" and thus unimportant because it won't get you a job really undervalues why they've had such cultural relevance long after the authors have passed away.
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2013-09-08, 15:36 | Link #30543 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Plenty of reasons they say the classics are what people wished they'd read, rather than what they wish to read, too.
90+% of kids don't need to read the greatest masters. They need to read competent craftsmen of the written word writing about something that will interest them. And for those who do need to read the masters - well, plenty of libraries around. |
2013-09-08, 17:18 | Link #30544 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kazamatsuri City
Age: 28
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World This book has some good points - look up the part about Fordism. Scientific education is not adequate alone. I still think this curriculum shift will be detrimental to student growth. |
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2013-09-08, 19:07 | Link #30545 |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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I always thought the whole point of the literature class in school, aside from old school generational cultural transfer (preserve the Canon!), as well as the exposure of ideas -- conceived back when education was believed to be more than skills and jobs -- is to teach the critical thinking skills in a roundabout way.
How to read, to understand, to grasp the nuances behind text communication, and finally, to interpret the texts and develop conclusions beyond the limitations of rote learning. Of course, literature is just one of the many ways this skill can be taught, if the most obvious one for educators in traditional settings. I'm sure young science nerds with not a literary bone in their body also developed similar skills, in different contexts (i.e. the scientific method). For the Telegraph article though, the move from fiction to nonfiction would not change things very much if the Ministry robots have enough taste to choose the better sort of nonfiction writing as opposed to the masses of drivel out there, thicker in nonfiction than in fiction necessarily because some nonfiction "writers," bloggers, journalists, politicians, celebrities, etc., don't deserve the writer moniker in the slightest. As for how important this skill is, witness how people write in the Internet. I do not mean Ledgem's point about the grammar, though that too is a point of interest, but how carelessly, and worthlessly, are their murky thoughts thrown out for all to see; how little critical thinking and self-consciousness lies behind a forum post, a comment, a blog article, or, more disturbingly, a journalistic piece; how difficult it is to engage a mind that does not seem to work the way yours do. This assumes, of course, that literature classes in school the way they're being taught even help with this necessary skill development in the first place. I'm not sure they do. Interestingly, I do admit that I like a fiction piece (books, stories, or otherwise) much, much more when, regardless of whether I'm reading it for a class or not, I act like I'm just enjoying the thing and schools and tests can go screw themselves. It is also how I "do" history. (Test? What test? Do I look like I care?) Moreover, I reserve the right to hate on a piece of fiction, so-called classic or not, objectively "good" or not, and rant and rave about it to my heart's content. I suspect many students instead feel compelled to "read to the test" and to be forced to "enjoy" a classic with naturally disastrous results. #ivorytowersnob #englishmajorminor |
2013-09-08, 20:58 | Link #30546 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Yen sags on Tokyo Olympics win, China data seen lifting Asia shares
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...96S00E20130909 Australia's new government aims to re-boot mining boom http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...98503J20130908 Longer wait for China residency permits irk foreign firms http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9870FT20130908
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2013-09-09, 05:21 | Link #30547 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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What they need to do is read something that will interest them. As long as it's relatively well written (at least for grammar...), it doesn't matter if it won't be remembered a century or even ten years from now. Or next week. It doesn't matter if it would only interest teenagers instead of, you know, crusty old literature professors. |
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2013-09-09, 07:05 | Link #30548 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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2013-09-09, 07:14 | Link #30549 |
Onee!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Auckland, NZ
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I have to draw the line at that, or you end up with these 'progressive' classes which have no exams/assessments so that everyone's a 'winner' and all you do in class is daydream all day so that no one feels like they're 'not doing well'.
School isn't meant to be interesting, it's purpose is education. And it ain't proper education if you're enjoying it too much.
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2013-09-09, 07:27 | Link #30550 | |||||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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An even broader subject: What is the point of formal education today? There are many things I'd like to add but life, unfortunately, is getting in the way. Hopefully, the topic would get the attention it deserves if it gets its own thread. |
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2013-09-09, 07:34 | Link #30551 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Stupid question. Job creation for all those 'A' Level students who can't make it into national universities and have no money for private ones, and don't want to sign on plus no real skills to go out there to earn a living with. *sarcastic*
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2013-09-09, 09:06 | Link #30552 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: nowhere
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Speaking of school, China thinks about whether to ban homework and replace it with field trips and "hands-on" stuff.
http://news.msn.com/world/china-mull...student-stress Quote:
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2013-09-09, 10:24 | Link #30553 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And if they really, truly, don't want to read anything... maybe have them watch instructional videos on burger flipping, I don't know. |
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2013-09-09, 10:33 | Link #30554 |
Senior Member
Author
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I think the old classics have their place, and still have value in demonstrating some of the the core strengths and capabilities of the written word (i.e. how stories can convey ideas and themes through symbolism, metaphor, etc...).
While I admit I found them largely boring as a teenager, I'm glad in retrospect that I had to read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies in high school. These are great books for showing teenagers how fiction can be used to convey certain political or philosophical viewpoints. Reading these sorts of books sort of prepares the mind for richer and more influential narratives like 1984. However, I think these old classics should be complimented with more modern and popular fare, such as the titles Anh_Minh suggested. Being a big comic book fan honestly contributed to my appreciation for reading and writing as much as any book I read in school did. Mary Poppins is famous for saying that a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. Giving kids some purely entertainment-focused reading in school to compliment the older classics will, I think, give kids a greater overall appreciation for reading and writing. You don't want reading to feel like a 100% chore to kids, or they'll never develop an interest in it.
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2013-09-09, 11:08 | Link #30555 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Yeah, well, I read Balzac, Flaubert and Maupassant as a kid, and fuck if I know what they were trying to convey.
Which I suppose says a lot either about how timeless and universal their works were, or how well they conveyed anything but tedium. Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2013-09-09 at 11:55. |
2013-09-09, 11:45 | Link #30556 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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I was unusually blessed to attend a high school with a lot of very bright kids and very effective teachers. My junior year English class was one of the formative experiences of my life. We read Strunk and White's little gem The Elements of Style and spent two weeks debating whether John Ciardi's detailed approach to poetry in How Does a Poem Mean? took all the beauty and meaning out of the art form. Of course, we discussed the usual array of literary works as well. We also had to write a whole hell of a lot, and grading was strict. I stopped using comma splices by the end of the first marking period sophomore year when they brought me a F for grammar. To this day I can sometimes agonize over which conjunction to use.
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2013-09-09, 13:41 | Link #30557 | |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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2013-09-09, 14:27 | Link #30558 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Our governance DOESN'T work at all. It looks so good because it is ridiculously micromanaged in such a small city-state.
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2013-09-09, 15:09 | Link #30559 |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,3625334.story
George Zimmerman threaten father-in-law with a gun. *Facepalm*
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2013-09-09, 16:05 | Link #30560 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kazamatsuri City
Age: 28
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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