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Random32 · 2012-02-10, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by warita

Meis explanation how they reached the conclusion that there is a dead person among them makes no sense, because they are operating under a very simple logical fallacy.
The correct way to derive a theory is to look at the evidence and then come to the right conclusion. Not establish a conclusion and then look at the evidence to see, if it fits. But thats what they are doing.

The evidence is simple, one desk missing. This could mean just about anything, inluding the explanation Misaki has given.... but also 1000 other scenarios. I just dont see it probable to asume that one missing desk means there is a dead person in the classroom.

That isn't a flaw in the show. That is an in universe flaw with the student's approach to the situations. It's not like the students are a bunch of scientists or anything, they are a bunch of middle schoolers trying to not get killed.

Scarletknive · 2012-02-10, 11:44

I wonder who has the Death Note now?

So a total of 3 are dead already...Who you think is the next one?(Read the scoreboard to know the characters.)

White Manju Bun · 2012-02-10, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarletknive

So a total of 3 are dead already...Who you think is the next one?(Read the scoreboard to know the characters.)

There have been 4 deaths, Yukari and her mom, nurse and heart boy. And if we include Mei's cousin, there have been 5.

Scarletknive · 2012-02-10, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

There have been 4 deaths, Yukari and her mom, nurse and heart boy. And if we include Mei's cousin, there have been 5.

Ok...So who is next on the list?(Suggestions)

ookamigirl · 2012-02-10, 13:35

That nurse dying felt like a consequence of Kouichi asking too many questions and just being too curious.
Guess the wheels are in motion now.
Takabayashi dropping dead was kinda surprising, but not entirely unexpected.
Finally, Mei spilled the beans about the whole thing!! Very interesting info.
Great episode.

kitten320 · 2012-02-10, 15:09

FINALLY! Took them long enough to freaking tell something! Though it doesn't make the classmates any less retarded. How the hell do you expect a new person to avoid somebody for no reason? If you are that worried, you should have said that LONG TIME AGO! IDIOTS!

So one of the classmates is a ghost? Wouldn't teachers remember the face of the previous students who died? Or can they change the looks? Also aren't they all students from this class? How could possibly one of them be dead?

Still the whole situation is dumb. If you get a transfer student, you don't transfer them into class that can cause a series of deaths because of that!

Dengar · 2012-02-10, 15:12

It has been LONG explained that they can't just up and tell him. The evidence is there. The last time somebody tried to up and tell him, he died from a heart attack.

It also has been explained that memories are altered to account for the added person.

It has ALSO been explained that the principal was new at this.

kitten320 · 2012-02-10, 15:14

^How the hell does Mei know everything and can tell him about it?!
Do you want to say that the moment she got ignored her memories just suddenly went "Oh, there's a ghost here..."

Besides so many people kept giving hints and still kept their heads. And it looks like everyone are aware of an extra person, otherwise they wouldn't isolate people. If so, they have perfect understanding that someone is not alive among them so their memories are fine.

Just look through old albums and search for similar looking people.

Extremesonic101 · 2012-02-10, 15:47

I don't think Mei just suddenly thought there was ghost among them, I think the whole class knew there was a ghost among them so Mei was given (or volunteered) for the position of being the student who takes the fall of not existing. What the class doesn't know is who the ghost is.

totoum · 2012-02-10, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

^How the hell does Mei know everything and can tell him about it?!

She doesn't know everything,she's just SPECULATING based on rumors and legends,she doesn't pretend to actualy know anything.

Quote:

Besides so many people kept giving hints and still kept their heads. And it looks like everyone are aware of an extra person, otherwise they wouldn't isolate people. If so, they have perfect understanding that someone is not alive among them so their memories are fine.

There seems to be a legend that says there's someone dead among them,they have no idea who it might be because according to the legend their memories are altered.

Quote:

Just look through old albums and search for similar looking people.

Oh yeah according to the legend the curses alters all documents erasing all traces of the ghost.

Quote:

you should have said that LONG TIME AGO! IDIOTS!

except if you tell him something you acknowledge her existence and activate the curse.So no you can't tell him anything.

And remember,it's a legend,it could be proven completly wrong in a couple episodes.

kitten320 · 2012-02-10, 17:42

Memories can't be fully changed and some holes should be left out. They should make a gathering and go through their past together. Besides if the ghost is from several years ago, what about the family?
They didn't seem to have any problem when they were throwing clues around.

Well at least there is no more running around and hopefully now things will ACTUALLY get interesting.

Dengar · 2012-02-10, 18:52

I doubt that the memory alteration is that half-assed. I actually think it's very thorough. Besides, it seems even the "dead" person is unaware. (it's not a ghost)

That being said, anomalies do appear. The process for example, does not magically conjure up an additional seat for the extra person to sit. That is the only clue that people have of somebody being added in the first place. The memory alterations themselves are very thorough and even if you compare the accounts of dozens of people they will probably add up.

Dark Wing · 2012-02-10, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Well at least there is no more running around and hopefully now things will ACTUALLY get interesting.

You forget that this is also a mystery. They still need to find out what exactly happened 26 years ago and how to break the curse so there is still a lot more running around that needs to be done.

totoum · 2012-02-10, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Memories can't be fully changed and some holes should be left out.

If a curse can magically alter official documents why couldn't it magically fully change people's memories?

Though maybe it is indeed not perfect,after all Azumi kept saying in the first 2 episodes that she remembers Kouichi from someplace.
This could back the "Kouichi is the ghost" theory.Or it's just another red herring.

DesuX2 · 2012-02-10, 20:27

That's assuming that the curse is magical in nature, in the first place. I contend that there is a rational solution on the human side, and I believe that Mei's metaphorical way of speaking is the key.

Dengar · 2012-02-11, 07:45

The word is supernatural, not magical. It has to be supernatural, or else the coincidental unlikely deaths would be rather unlikely, and coincidental.

kitten320 · 2012-02-11, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

You forget that this is also a mystery. They still need to find out what exactly happened 26 years ago and how to break the curse so there is still a lot more running around that needs to be done.

I don't mind that, that's what mystery is supposed to be, investigation.
But not random running around with no progress what so ever:
"Tell me!"
"NO!"
"Ok..."
Few minutes later...
"Tell me!"
"NO!"
"Ok..."

And like that for the last 5 episodes x_x
I thought that death in episode 3 would make things rolling but no, we came back to the start.
Now that he knows what class was hiding means that we won't have to go through same routine again.

And about document change, it is far easier to change documents than memories. Memories have no boundaries while documents are limited to several pages where only several lines need to be changed. Changing documentation is not that hard, especially if you are a ghost

And is far easier to get inside the file than head.

Just how many people have fake driving licenses, passports, recommendations and so on? Thousands!
But how many people have changed memories? Unless they have amnesia I doubt there is anyone. Though even with amnesia people still tend to remember something.

warita · 2012-02-11, 08:30

Well, here is my humble guess at who the next person will be:

whoever wrote that little note to Kouichi "Ask Misaki, she will explain". Ist that almost the same as saying that there is a problem (the curse) hence aknowledging whats going on and also, by writing a note, you aknowledge Kouichis and Misakis existance too. You just dont write notes to imaginary classmates.

totoum · 2012-02-11, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

And about document change, it is far easier to change documents than memories. Memories have no boundaries while documents are limited to several pages where only several lines need to be changed. Changing documentation is not that hard, especially if you are a ghost

The ghost doesn't change the documents,considering his memories have also been altered and he doesn't know he's a ghost,he wouldn't know what documents to change.

Xcomp · 2012-02-11, 10:49

Yay, they finally cleared up the biggest mystery they've been dragging on with. I'm guessing it's because they don't know exactly how the curse works, maybe they thought talking about the "extra student" would kill them and that's why no one dared giving Sakakibara any answers until circumstances have grown desperate again now that the deaths were happening.

I still think Mei's the grim reaper even though it's suddenly come to light she's only been ignored so far. Sakakibara should have started playing loud music in class or trashing things in rage to see how long they can ignore him for =P

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2012-02-10, 13:35	Link #185
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	That nurse dying felt like a consequence of Kouichi asking too many questions and just being too curious. Guess the wheels are in motion now. Takabayashi dropping dead was kinda surprising, but not entirely unexpected. Finally, Mei spilled the beans about the whole thing!! Very interesting info. Great episode. __________________ My Blog --> ookami

2012-02-10, 15:09	Link #186
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	FINALLY! Took them long enough to freaking tell something! Though it doesn't make the classmates any less retarded. How the hell do you expect a new person to avoid somebody for no reason? If you are that worried, you should have said that LONG TIME AGO! IDIOTS! So one of the classmates is a ghost? Wouldn't teachers remember the face of the previous students who died? Or can they change the looks? Also aren't they all students from this class? How could possibly one of them be dead? Still the whole situation is dumb. If you get a transfer student, you don't transfer them into class that can cause a series of deaths because of that! __________________ My anime list

2012-02-10, 15:14	Link #188
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	^How the hell does Mei know everything and can tell him about it?! Do you want to say that the moment she got ignored her memories just suddenly went "Oh, there's a ghost here..." Besides so many people kept giving hints and still kept their heads. And it looks like everyone are aware of an extra person, otherwise they wouldn't isolate people. If so, they have perfect understanding that someone is not alive among them so their memories are fine. Just look through old albums and search for similar looking people. __________________ My anime list

2012-02-10, 17:42	Link #191
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Memories can't be fully changed and some holes should be left out. They should make a gathering and go through their past together. Besides if the ghost is from several years ago, what about the family? They didn't seem to have any problem when they were throwing clues around. Well at least there is no more running around and hopefully now things will ACTUALLY get interesting. __________________ My anime list

2012-02-10, 11:44	Link #182
Scarletknive Meister Join Date: Jul 2010	I wonder who has the Death Note now? So a total of 3 are dead already...Who you think is the next one?(Read the scoreboard to know the characters.)

2012-02-10, 15:12	Link #187
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	It has been LONG explained that they can't just up and tell him. The evidence is there. The last time somebody tried to up and tell him, he died from a heart attack. It also has been explained that memories are altered to account for the added person. It has ALSO been explained that the principal was new at this.

2012-02-10, 15:47	Link #189
Extremesonic101 Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Canada	I don't think Mei just suddenly thought there was ghost among them, I think the whole class knew there was a ghost among them so Mei was given (or volunteered) for the position of being the student who takes the fall of not existing. What the class doesn't know is who the ghost is.

2012-02-10, 18:52	Link #192
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	I doubt that the memory alteration is that half-assed. I actually think it's very thorough. Besides, it seems even the "dead" person is unaware. (it's not a ghost) That being said, anomalies do appear. The process for example, does not magically conjure up an additional seat for the extra person to sit. That is the only clue that people have of somebody being added in the first place. The memory alterations themselves are very thorough and even if you compare the accounts of dozens of people they will probably add up.

2012-02-10, 20:27	Link #195
DesuX2 Member Join Date: May 2008	That's assuming that the curse is magical in nature, in the first place. I contend that there is a rational solution on the human side, and I believe that Mei's metaphorical way of speaking is the key.

2012-02-11, 07:45	Link #196
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	The word is supernatural, not magical. It has to be supernatural, or else the coincidental unlikely deaths would be rather unlikely, and coincidental.

2012-02-11, 08:30	Link #198
warita Dai-Youkai Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vienna	Well, here is my humble guess at who the next person will be: whoever wrote that little note to Kouichi "Ask Misaki, she will explain". Ist that almost the same as saying that there is a problem (the curse) hence aknowledging whats going on and also, by writing a note, you aknowledge Kouichis and Misakis existance too. You just dont write notes to imaginary classmates.

2012-02-11, 10:49	Link #200
Xcomp Owe No Favours! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK, Glasgow	Yay, they finally cleared up the biggest mystery they've been dragging on with. I'm guessing it's because they don't know exactly how the curse works, maybe they thought talking about the "extra student" would kill them and that's why no one dared giving Sakakibara any answers until circumstances have grown desperate again now that the deaths were happening. I still think Mei's the grim reaper even though it's suddenly come to light she's only been ignored so far. Sakakibara should have started playing loud music in class or trashing things in rage to see how long they can ignore him for =P __________________ 5 Centimetres per Second Novel Translation