Clannad - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Rembr

I think people's complaints are rooted on a larger scale than just the events that happened in episode 22.

Larger scale? As in "their girl didnt win"? No sign of development or denial to see those that have been all over the show since the first episodes?

[Falkor]

Finished episode 22…

How should I describe this episode? If I go with my feelings alone, this was simply beautiful, heart-warming, and powerful. It conveyed the family theme through some kind of magic in the Key verse, however not employing any kind of fantastical element. Thus far, this is perhaps the adaptation that is bounded more strongly to reality.

What kind of dreams matter the most? Those you have the hope of realizing or those you have already given up the chance of pursuing. Nagisa’s dream found the place it was looking for with the help of her rivals her friends, the charisma of her not yet boyfriend Tomoya and the unselfish support of her parents. She was not alone in this enterprise and found soon that such thing as stealing her parent’s dreams did not exist. She was the object of a great realization and she somehow took responsibility of it at the end. It was the simple wish of achieving something her parents sacrificed for her own sake that the world made sense to her. She finally realized the meaning of her dream and that of her parents and friends when she discovered that happiness and family mattered the most to her.

Tomoya finally meets his dad after leaving the house and his reaction is not that surprising. The relationship between the two hasn’t moved any closer to a reconciliation, understanding, or resolution, but it somehow reminded the audience that the ice has indeed broken (or received a crack to be more exact). He is no longer the same person from the first episode and Nagisa is partly responsible for that. Even if that suggestion didn’t mean anything other than some form a preoccupation, things have changed a little bit, though not to a great extent.

A confession is allowed to occur in the drama clubroom as the result of a long sequence of events that led to this lucky and perhaps fortunate situation. Tomoya lets her know the feelings he has been hiding for 22 episodes or so, while she, on the other hand, is no less than happy and overjoyed of listening to his words. It wasn’t really emotional; it wasn’t really romantic; it wasn’t really a normal confession to begin with. It was foreseen as the development between the two was not subtle and forced, but very obvious as though bringing the relationship to fruition was meant to occur. She was in the position of returning his feelings now that he didn’t want his insecurity to be the obstacle of moving one step closer to the realization of his love.

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by Rembr

I seem to remember an eroge spawning from some outrage concerning it.

Indeed you are correct. It is called "Tomoyo After ~It's a Wonderful Life~".

--Ian.

[OceanBlue]

Tomoya's a tsundere.

Is what I thought at the end.
It was a very touching story. The parents [especially Akio] get +5 awesome points.

[skyablaze]

Almost as bad as the Myself Yourself ending and that's saying alot, so Tomoya asks Nagisa to go out with him, Wow!! that's very original, I'll just pretend like this episode never happend and stick with the Clannad movie ending.

[king12354]

It's kind of depressing/sad how people think the producers are all intent, not that I'm disagreeing or anything like that. I guess real world experience teach us this...

[qtipbrit]

Originally Posted by skyablaze

Almost as bad as the Myself Yourself ending and that's saying alot, so Tomoya asks Nagisa to go out with him, Wow!! that's very original, I'll just pretend like this episode never happend and stick with the Clannad movie ending.

The movie ending takes place after the anime ending (obviously.) the OVA may cover the story/after-story further, though, so look forward to that.

Ah, the ending was a bit rushed, but it was still quite excellent. I liked the song very much, and the epic kiss that didn't happen was epic.

Solid 9/10 in my book.

[Rembr]

Originally Posted by Mirrinus

I'm maintaining that the products are a gift in the sense that you didn't do anything to deserve them.

Didn't everyone give 10something hours of their lives?

That's appallingly low price for sure, but as everyone probably paid the equal amount, I don't see how one attitude toward the product is any better than the other.

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Individuals bitching about tidbits in it won't have much influence on them at all.

Why do you feel that negative responses are unimportant?

Maybe after people calm down, they might change their tune on the events in 22 and the entire series. Maybe not. But isn't it important to gauge "bitching" responses, before they become no response at all?

Originally Posted by Sheba

Larger scale? As in "their girl didnt win"? No sign of development or denial to see those that have been all over the show since the first episodes?

Some people aren't liking this entire series, much less one girl. They may or may not have seen the subtle developments, that doesn't mean they liked it.

How about people that like Nagisa, and aren't completely satisfied how 22 ended? Perhaps they felt that all the buildup was for naught?

[Tendou88]

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by Tendou88

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

If you do not believe that Kyoani is going to make a second season, and you do not want to play the game, yes. It'll give it a bit of a more meaningful conclusion. If you're going to play the game or want to hold out for a second season, no. The movie will spoil some things for you, so note that it's not just a preference of taste.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Tendou88

Should i watch the clannad movie after this ?

Off topic: Not if there's gonna be a second season/set of OVAs.

[mandarb916]

Originally Posted by IRJustman

Indeed you are correct. It is called "Tomoyo After ~It's a Wonderful Life~".

--Ian.

Tomoyo After >> Clannad in terms of content quality imho...a tad short though.

[Joachim]

i find this thread lack of faith disturbing.

i know this episode will be some sort of critic fest, especially if this is how clannad end (no season 2 / after story)
i myself would gladly give this episode a 4 if this is really the end of clannad, its just.. well oh ok the two hook up, nagisa realize her parents dream, and what? thats it?

and the irony of some people saying CLANNAD movie is damn better than CLANNAD anime, if CLANNAD anime did end like this, sure CLANNAD movie will be damn superior because it is the real essence of CLANNAD anime which haven't (or will not) be shown yet

all i can say, reserve your total judgement until there is an announcement regarding whether there will be 2nd season or not, don't go all disappointed because you were thinking "damn thats it?" but later on when they go 2nd season on you, and show the "story" you will be "ah.. this is how it supposed to END, bravo" that is shameful..

but on the other hand if this is really the end, no bloody 2nd season or what, fire away, i will not even argue when people say this is just the copy of kanon or whatsoever, and people who do flame bait.. shame on you, grow up

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Rembr

Why do you feel that negative responses are unimportant?

Maybe after people calm down, they might change their tune on the events in 22 and the entire series. Maybe not. But isn't it important to gauge "bitching" responses, before they become no response at all?

I'm impressed that you ask this question, seeing as how you answer it in your own post:

Originally Posted by Rembr

Didn't everyone give 10something hours of their lives?

That's appallingly low price for sure, but as everyone probably paid the equal amount, I don't see how one attitude toward the product is any better than the other.

------

Originally Posted by Rembr

Some people aren't liking this entire series, much less one girl. They may or may not have seen the subtle developments, that doesn't mean they liked it.

How about people that like Nagisa, and aren't completely satisfied how 22 ended? Perhaps they felt that all the buildup was for naught?

Sucks to be them. You can't please everyone all the time.

------

And to be honest, I don't think people should come in with all these expectations and preconceived notions of how the series should turn out. It just ruins the ride completely, and their enjoyment of the show suffers for it.

[Chaotic_Reign]

Even if this WAS to be the end of Clannad, I don't have any major bones with the ending. I mean, I don't think that its necessary to defend Clannad by saying "Wait for the second season," because it does somewhat take away from what I thought was quite a fine episode to end Nagisa's arc. It didn't quite reach the true ending point of Nagisa's School Life arc, but I was expecting, and indeed am much happier, for the series to end with the confession in the drama club room.

There was a dramatic climax to the story - Akio's scene was spectacularly done, even better than in the game - and a decisive step to the Nagisa-Tomoya relationship. Most characters had their stories tied up nicely, and there's nothing to fault with the directing, scripting or music. There are still loose threads around, to be sure, but in the context of a non-gamer none of them are major points that would prove fatal to appreciating anime Clannad.

After Story will make it near perfect, but even now it is a "great" series. Not one for the history books yet, but still in the top tier of anime nevertheless.

[Meatrose]

I enjoyed this episode about as much as I enjoyed the entire show. In order to fully express my opinion I need to know whether the AS is going to be animated or not. KyoAni adapted this part of the game extremely well in my opinion. I'm a sucker for Kyou's scenario, but given the content it was impossible to go down that road in the anime. As an adaptation of the school-part of Clannad I'd say that these 22 episodes were brilliant. As a stand-alone product/story I'd say that it was well below the standards we're used to when it comes to Key-adaptations done by KyoAni. Kanon surpassed what we've seen so far, and Air is far ahead of both of them (but that's just my personal opinion ofc)

However... judging Clannad as a story by what we've seen so far is a huge mistake. If Clannad was a fancy dinner, these 22 episodes would be... like shopping for the ingredients and going through the recipe. The main dish however is the Afterstory. For KyoAni to leave Clannad after this would be kind of like shouting "hey, that's a wrap" after animating the Dream-arc of Air, thus ignoring Summer and Air. Those who've seen Air and knows about the three arcs can easily imagine the insane difference that would have made.

Anyhow, I know it might look as if I went off topic there, but there's a reason I wrote that. I mean to say that I can't, even for a second, believe that KyoAni would leave Clannad like this. The AS is what makes it a really great story, and given their love for Key-stories I refuse to believe that they would treat Clannad like this. The main plot of the current season of Clannad has been taken care of. They didn't even touch the AS, and yet they include it in the OP. I think that anyone who have read this far already figured that I expect a second season or an OVA containing the AS.

Due to this, I refuse to look at this as a finished product. If I'd done that, I would definitely rate it lower than Kanon and especially Air. However, I chose to look at this as an adaptation of the school-part of Clannad, and as long as I do that, I'm really satisfied.

[germanturkey]

haven't watched the ep yet, but it seems like i'll be disappointed. i was never a big nagisa fan anyways. But Akio was one of my favorites from the start.

anyways, here are my thoughts of what could potentially be 23 and 24

edited for content, moved to speculation

of course, i could wayyyyy off the mark too

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

anyways, here are my thoughts of what could potentially be 23 and 24
snipped by mod

of course, i could wayyyyy off the mark too

Spoiler:

You probably are. Considering how the After Story was lauded to be the real part of the story for Clannad by many so far, I'm thinking that 2 episodes to finish everything off will be too cheap.

[Kyuusai]

Watching this episode was a bit hard, because from the previous episode onward, all I could focus on is how easy it is to point out that Nagisa's parents didn't give up on their dreams, but they found a better one. It dawned on me here, though, that Tomoya's history might incline him to never think of this at all.

To me, this entire episode was simply a buildup to Akio's entrance here. Okiayu Ryoutarou's performance was moving, and the stage-performance body language was a clever and important detail.

"Moving" is a word I've used before in this series. I didn't really find Nagisa's story moving, honestly, although it had its moments like this. From what little I know about After Story, though, I would assume it's too early to judge, though.

If CLANNAD ends here, I will be VERY unhappy, but I've found its theme of family to be deeply touching.

[kimchipride]

Am I a cold-hearted person?

I did not really enjoy the finale episode and I believe the entire series wasn't that good. But it's Key's fault for the story I didn't like. Kyoto Animation did a great job, however, because their animation quality, character buildup, comedy moments, and music choice were excellent in many ways.

Kanon > Clannad > Air