(L) Fullmetal Alchemist Manga Discussion

[Rennir]

Originally Posted by Grey

I'd wager Hohenheim will die even if he doesn't use himself as a sacrifice. It looks like he can't even manage regeneration in this chapter, so he's probably pretty close to death. It's probably something of an ogre's choice: die now (and save Al), or regenerate and die a little bit later.

But I wonder if Ed will get his leg back too. Not sure about that one.

Well I'm sure that Ed can get his leg back another way, since FMA is all about Ed and Al's quest to get their bodies back. It wouldn't be much of an ending if they don't even achieve their main goal; to go through all of that and not get what you were aiming for. But he won't be able to get it back the way he got his back his arm because he used his leg as exchange for summoning his mother, and since she's no longer around there isn't a way she could sacrifice herself to get his leg back, not that she would anyways .
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Murci?lago

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Rennir

Well I'm sure that Ed can get his leg back another way, since FMA is all about Ed and Al's quest to get their bodies back. It wouldn't be much of an ending if they don't even achieve their main goal; to go through all of that and not get what you were aiming for. But he won't be able to get it back the way he got his back his arm because he used his leg as exchange for summoning his mother, and since she's no longer around there isn't a way she could sacrifice herself to get his leg back, not that she would anyways .

Personally, I'd be content with just Al getting his body back and Ed his arm. I'm tired of endings where everything ends up just the way the heroes want, and everything turning out just peachy keen. Sometimes you have to accept things as they are. It's not as if there isn't an entire town of people wearing automail, so he can definitely live without his natural leg.

[Rennir]

Originally Posted by GDB

Personally, I'd be content with just Al getting his body back and Ed his arm. I'm tired of endings where everything ends up just the way the heroes want, and everything turning out just peachy keen. Sometimes you have to accept things as they are. It's not as if there isn't an entire town of people wearing automail, so he can definitely live without his natural leg.

I agree, which is why someone is going to sacrifice themselves in order to bring Al back and maybe Ed's leg too. That way, Ed and Al got what they wanted since the beginning of the story and someone dies so it's a bittersweet ending .
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Expert insurance

[GDB]

But didn't Hoenheim tell Izumi that her organs couldn't be brought back because they were her toll? Only reason I can see Al and his body being an exception is because of his connection to Ed.

[kujoe]

But what was Al's toll?

In trying to bring back their mother, Ed lost his leg while Al would've lost his life if it weren't for Ed sacrificing his arm to get Al's soul back.

Remember that Al is also able to use alchemy by forming a circle with his hands, which means that he too has been to the gate... and yet, he's able to get his entire body back.

In other words, perhaps another sacrifice has to be put up, but I don't get it. Isn't the philosopher's stone supposed to ignore that? Hohenheim could've easily given Izumi her organs back then when he wasn't dying.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by GDB

But didn't Hoenheim tell Izumi that her organs couldn't be brought back because they were her toll?

It can be interpreted that way but I think it's also possible that he could have brought back her organs but simply chose not to because they were the cost of her sin.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by kujoe

But what was Al's toll?

In trying to bring back their mother, Ed lost his leg while Al would've lost his life if it weren't for Ed sacrificing his arm to get Al's soul back.

Remember that Al is also able to use alchemy by forming a circle with his hands, which means that he too has been to the gate... and yet, he's able to get his entire body back.

We don't know if Al will still be able to do alchemy without a circle now that he has his body back. He is still within the doorway and cannot leave. Although possibly if you already see what is through the doors you keep that knowledge even if you do somehow get back what you have lost which is what happened with Al.

[GaimeGuy]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

It can be interpreted that way but I think it's also possible that he could have brought back her organs but simply chose not to because they were the cost of her sin.

Yeah, after all, he's GLAD that Ed didn't want to use him to get their bodies back.

Basically, Hohenheim probably could have given Izumi her organs back, but it was a mistake that she made, and an action that she pursued on her own. It wouldn't be fair for him to bail her out like that.

I think he wouldn't have a problem giving Mustang his eyesight back since Mustang is the only one out of the other 4 sacrifices that didn't pursue human transmutation, that literally was dragged to the gate against his will, then punished for it. But I think he wants people to fix their own mistakes.

Now, with him close to death, he might want to do one final deed for his two sons that he failed to be there for for so many years, but under normal circumstances, he believes it should be their problem to fix.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

We don't know if Al will still be able to do alchemy without a circle now that he has his body back. He is still within the doorway and cannot leave. Although possibly if you already see what is through the doors you keep that knowledge even if you do somehow get back what you have lost which is what happened with Al.

Remember that Al's toll was his entire being, and that it was Ed who actually separated Al from his body (by paying a toll to bring back Al's soul.)

What has just happened is an undoing of what Ed did to bring Al back. Al is now as he was (probably) in the few brief moments between the death of that thing they transmuted and Ed's sacrifice of his arm. Al's toll (himself) is still at the gate, just like Ed's toll (his leg). Al being bound to a suit of armor and Al getting the knowledge to transmuate without a circle are two completely separate events.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Technically Al never did a human transmutation to open the gate. While trying to bring back their mother, he was actually part of the transmutation and not the one who did it. It's similar to how Envy and Ling were part of the transmutation at the time they escaped from Gluttonys inside. Though these two didn't gain any knowledge from the gate.

Uh, not quite. Al had his hands on the transmutation circle just like Ed, just yes he did do it just as much as Ed did. There was no need for him to, but bringing back their mother was something that they naturally wanted to do together.

Ling and Envy just watched Ed do it and then jumped into the circle, thus not participating actively in the act itself and not gaining any knowledge.

[Shiroth]

I'm still wondering if we're going to see the shot from the fifth OP that has Ed in bed and Winry sat next to him in the last chapter.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Wouldn't it be hilarious if a volume consisted of a single chapter?

Shin Angyo Onshi had one chapter across 2 volumes I think

Originally Posted by Shiroth

I'm still wondering if we're going to see the shot from the fifth OP that has Ed in bed and Winry sat next to him in the last chapter.

Can't remember, but did Ed have his arm and leg back to normal? There might be some spoilers there

[ellifeedn]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Wouldn't it be hilarious if a volume consisted of a single chapter?

I've seen this happen twice in one series (close enough to it for the second time).

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by tzia_n

Can't remember, but did Ed have his arm and leg back to normal? There might be some spoilers there

In that scene during the OP, we can't make out his arm or leg because of the blanket, so it furthers my reason as to believe it's a scene from the last chapter. Or something similar anyway.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

In that scene during the OP, we can't make out his arm or leg because of the blanket, so it furthers my reason as to believe it's a scene from the last chapter. Or something similar anyway.

I always assumed this was the case, especially after the latest chapter.

[zebra]

@OP scene, just how awesome would that be <_<
Just took it as a sign for a happy end after all, with all the crying and sadness in the OP. Would be plenty cool if it's gonna show up next month.

[Arabesque]

Right, so I thought about it for a bit and I decided to elaborate more on my prediction that Ed will be using the Sun Father created to pay for Al's toll. Or just a scenario for the finale that doesn't involve either Hohenheim or Greed sacrificing themselves (because I hate the idea that Al well be brought back using a Stone, and I don't want the two to die )

Now, rereading volume 13 helped get this idea in my head, especially the part where Ed says :

''The Sun represents the Soul, this Moon is the alchemic symbol that represents the Spirit.''

Which got me thinking hey, Father created a Sun, in Alchemy the Sun represents the Soul, so why doesn't Ed use it!? ofc there is the issue of what will they do when Father unleashes this trump card of his (they can't exactly put it down with water can they?) so I think that would be a good alternative way to dispose of it.

Granted, this could be just random techno-babble that Ed thought of back when he was in Gluttony's stomach, but then looking a bit further on the discussion

''The symbol for God that's written above the two dragons is shown upside down. Upside down-in other words, bringing God down to earth and making him one's own. This creates the intertwining male and female dragons. The Hermaphrodite—The Alchemic symbol for a complete life form (Perfect Being in the scans) ... [talking about the missing piece from Xerxes] The missing piece shows the sun being swallowed by the lion. It symbolises the Philosopher's Stone.''

Now if it wasn't any obvious, Arakawa at that point already revealed the entirety of Father eating God midway through the story. We also get another parallel was drawn with the Sun as the Philosopher's Stone, putting more weight to the theory.

There is also the symbolism of Ed paying God as a toll to the Truth, emphasised greatly with Hohenheim telling Al to look up when he was referring to the solar eclipse and that Day, Lin observation about the clapping of hands looking as a prayer to God (seriously, look at this page) and even with a certain guest showing up in the same chapter Al meet his body.

tl;dr Sun=Philosopher's Stone=Soul=Way to get Al out.

So yeah, just something to think about.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Right, so I thought about it for a bit and I decided to elaborate more on my prediction that Ed will be using the Sun Father created to pay for Al's toll. Or just a scenario for the finale that doesn't involve either Hohenheim or Greed sacrificing themselves (because I hate the idea that Al well be brought back using a Stone, and I don't want the two to die )

Now, rereading volume 13 helped get this idea in my head, especially the part where Ed says :Which got me thinking hey, Father created a Sun, in Alchemy the Sun represents the Soul, so why doesn't Ed use it!? ofc there is the issue of what will they do when Father unleashes this trump card of his (they can't exactly put it down with water can they?) so I think that would be a good alternative way to dispose of it.

Granted, this could be just random techno-babble that Ed thought of back when he was in Gluttony's stomach, but then looking a bit further on the discussion

Now if it wasn't any obvious, Arakawa at that point already revealed the entirety of Father eating God midway through the story. We also get another parallel was drawn with the Sun as the Philosopher's Stone, putting more weight to the theory.

There is also the symbolism of Ed paying God as a toll to the Truth, emphasised greatly with Hohenheim telling Al to look up when he was referring to the solar eclipse and that Day, Lin observation about the clapping of hands looking as a prayer to God (seriously, look at this page) and even with a certain guest showing up in the same chapter Al meet his body.

tl;dr Sun=Philosopher's Stone=Soul=Way to get Al out.

So yeah, just something to think about.

Dunno about that... I though the symbolism about the lion eating the sun was pretty obviously a reference to the eclipse. Besides, Ed would have to be able to create fusion in order to use it as a trade, and the only person who has been able to do that is Father. And even with his half-million souls he had left after Hohenheim's counter, he had to dispel it or else he'd lose control over his "god", which he didn't lose control of until he'd dropped well below that level... Ed, or more likely Hohenheim, might be able to summon it up, but only with the use of a massive Stone. Probably more than even Greed currently has.

[orangejuicetang]

You know, there's still that small bottle containing a philosopher's stone they found in Bradley's pocket.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

You know, there's still that small bottle containing a philosopher's stone they found in Bradley's pocket.

Spoiler for 107 spoiler:

That's an easy one. Lan Fan is going to give it to GreedLing, to take back to Xing as a method for immortality, and GreedLing's going to offer it to Ed/Hoho to use to bring back Al. Only question is whether Ed gets his leg back, and/or Izumi her organs, and/or Mustang his eyes... I could honestly see any of those three happening or not.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually: no.
I already wanted to rant about this in the chapter it happened, but decided not to: The fact that thea were irritated by father making a fusion is kind of plot-holeish, since a fusion is nothing else than creating one element by fusing the atoms of others. And that is something, all the alchemist in this series were doing since the beginning.
When they aren't busy changing the form of something, they change elements into other elements, like Ed using stone to create a spear of metal, or Hohenheim morphing water into stone.
Therefore a fusion is nothing unusual, actually.

Au contraire, mon frere...

Concrete (which is what Ed is pulling one of his signatuire spears from in every instance I can think of) often is supported by rebar, which explains the metal spear tip, and wood is cellulose, which is just carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen, explaining the shaft, since there are plenty of those three in concrete. Also it was specifically pointed out (just a few episodes ago, in the anime) that Ed got the carbon he used to protect his arm from Pride's attacks from the carbon in the northern-style automail. Back when Ed created Yoki's "gold bricks", he used the money Yoki bribed him with to coat the coal that he ended up giving him. And why would Ed and Al have needed to memorize the components of a human body, and use those components, if they could just make elements up at will? Arakawa has been very thorough in giving us purely chemical alchemy from her alchemist characters, even (especially) Mustang.

As for Hohenheim, I don't remember him ever using water to create stone (ice, maybe), but even if he did, hello, half a million souls...

And fusing hydrogen together to create helium (fusion) in such a manner as to create near perpetual light and heat, as opposed to breaking molecules and moving atoms around with a little blue sparking (chemical manipulation), are two completely different things. Nuclear reactions like fusion and fission are not normal alchemic abilities in this series.