Haruka or Mitsuki? Why?

[yezhanquan]

I do feel sorry for both girls. Both lost years of their lives: Haruka in bed, while Mitsuki just muddled along. In a way, Mitsuki has been living a dream while Haruka was sleeping. Once the sleeping beauty wakes up, Mitsuki's dream goes as well.

[ffp3fdhgu]

I'd just finished this series. I wanna share some of my thought
The only thing that pisses me off in this anime is Mitsuki slept with Shinji. I know that she devoted all her life for the main char and there's only Takayuki in her heart, and I know that she was so painful, she thought she was just a replacement, she thought she'd lost Takayuki, she'd lost everything. But, still, doing something like that... I just can't stand it>"< It is unforgivable >"< is it just because I'm so selfish? Just thinking about it makes me wanna play the game route where Takayuki never forgives Mitsuki and make her into his sex slave.
Well, except for what I said above, there's nothing else to complain about the series though. As for Takayuki being indecisive, I think it's pretty common among those anime made from Adult Visual Novel games. Cuz in the game u can make any choice u want but u cant do that in the anime so... Indeed there are several times when I want to punch his face till I break my hand though, but meh, it can't be helped.
And Haruka, of course I feel sorry for her. This way of ending is so sad for her. There's nothing else I can say about it
wow, I typed a lot @_@ I'm wondering whether it's too late for saying these things :P but man, even after I said it out loud, I still get angry whenever I think about how Mitsuki slept with Shinji @_@ ~X(

[BetoJR]

As for your point, didn't Takayuki do almost the same thing with Haruka, after she woke up from her coma? In her hospital bed, no less? Why does he get a free pass? At least Mitsuki didn't have any feelings for Shinji...

[ffp3fdhgu]

er... but he refused didnt he :-s he maybe touched and looked at Haruka nude a little but he already did it before the accident rite? I think in the end he didnt do anything physically to Haruka.
I don't dislike Mitsuki. But the fact that she wanted to have sex with random people is... and then she really did it... man it makes me feel so irritated >"<

[BetoJR]

I'm a hot-blooded guy and the only thing those scenes with Mitsuki made me feel was completely and utterly sorry for her - she knew she was doing something horribly wrong, and for all the wrong reasons. That's what made it so sad...

[Death Header]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

As for your point, didn't Takayuki do almost the same thing with Haruka, after she woke up from her coma? In her hospital bed, no less? Why does he get a free pass? At least Mitsuki didn't have any feelings for Shinji... :eyebrow:

If Mitsuki didn't have any feelings for Shinji when she did it with him, doesn't that make Mitsuki even worse than Takayuki? Having sex with someone you don't have feelings for shows how desperate Mitsuki was at that time. At least Takayuki never had sex with Haruka during the majority of the series.

I was going to vote for Mitsuki, but I'm really leaning towards Haruka at this point due to the fact that Mitsuki betrayed her best friend, and almost betrayed her own lover no less. Things would've been way different if Haruka wasn't in a comatose state.

edit: Oh yea, and I'm a man.

[willyvereb]

If we see the bare actions then you're right, but if you look on her circumstances and state of mind I don't think so...
And If she stayed just as a friend who happens to be taking care of Takayuki after Haruka's death then I guess either her or Takayuki commits a sucide. There's a limit how far you can go hurting yourself for others' sake. Mitsuki already took on inhumane amounts when she take care of him for over a year and gave up everything. Everyone calls her selfish just because she did selfish things. But her situation she was in was far from normal. Takayuki's such an overemotional guy that he bordered the deadly amount of sadness and despair because of his guilt.
It's my habit but I like imagine 'what if' scenarios where in a certain situation two person switches places. Funny but we hardly got as detailed information about the personality of Haruka as Takayuki or Mitsuki so I am a bit unsure what she would do in Mitsuki's situation. The only thing I know that she lacks the will to fight so she would never make a move on Takayuki, but instead she would "run away"(leave Takayuki and move somewhere else). Haruka is stronger than Mitsuki and she's really kind, but she's somewhat a coward to take actions and instead gives up or runs away. So if we change the situation of Haruka and Mitsuki we've got a Junkyuki or a dead Takayuki when Mitsuki wakes up. Because Takayuki's not a Bakayuki for nothing. He needs a huge "shock" at the times like this to come to his senses and Haruka or her family is unable to do that.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

If we see the bare actions then you're right, but if you look on her circumstances and state of mind I don't think so...
And If she stayed just as a friend who happens to be taking care of Takayuki after Haruka's death then I guess either her or Takayuki commits a sucide. There's a limit how far you can go hurting yourself for others' sake. Mitsuki already took on inhumane amounts when she take care of him for over a year and gave up everything. Everyone calls her selfish just because she did selfish things. But her situation she was in was far from normal. Takayuki's such an overemotional guy that he bordered the deadly amount of sadness and despair because of his guilt.
It's my habit but I like imagine 'what if' scenarios where in a certain situation two person switches places. Funny but we hardly got as detailed information about the personality of Haruka as Takayuki or Mitsuki so I am a bit unsure what she would do in Mitsuki's situation. The only thing I know that she lacks the will to fight so she would never make a move on Takayuki, but instead she would "run away"(leave Takayuki and move somewhere else). Haruka is stronger than Mitsuki and she's really kind, but she's somewhat a coward to take actions and instead gives up or runs away. So if we change the situation of Haruka and Mitsuki we've got a Junkyuki or a dead Takayuki when Mitsuki wakes up. Because Takayuki's not a Bakayuki for nothing. He needs a huge "shock" at the times like this to come to his senses and Haruka or her family is unable to do that.

What's with all the assumptions? That's not fair, you're saying that if Haruka was in the same situation as Mitsuki, she would run away? And how do you know that? Honestly, can you tell me how you can state this as a fact when you had no hand in creating the anime. If Haruka loves Takayuki as much as she did, then I doubt she would "run away" in his time of need, she's not that selfish (everyone is selfish to a certain extent.) Also, Haruka didn't die, she was in a coma and how do you know that Takayuki would commit suicide if Mitsuki had only remained friends with him? He was in a lot of grief and despair but there are other ways to keep him from feeling depressed, sure sleeping with him is one way but it wasn't the greatest of decisions.

Saying that you're "unsure" at what Haruka would do in Mitsuki's situation and then claiming that you "know" she lacks the will to fight and calling her a coward is no less then a contradiction on your part. After waking up from a coma for 3 years and realizing how much everything and everyone had changed around you, she didn't give up. If Haruka "lacks the will to fight" as you say, then how was she able to accept what had happened to her and on top of that, work as hard as she did to get her strength back? You're assuming too much and it makes what you say very inconsistent.

Mitsuki is not one of my favorite characters but I wouldn't go as far as to say that I hate her. What I did hate were the decisions she made because instead of speaking her mind with Takayuki, she decides to remain in denial of Takayuki's shaky feelings. When Mitsuki decides to try and accept it, she had already made countless selfish actions and slept with Takayuki's best friend Shinji. As far as I'm concerned, I can't find any reason to view her actions as acceptable.

[willyvereb]

My mistake...somehow I mixed up my sentence. I meant that she's more likely to run away than cheat with him. And I mixed up my faint assumptions and close to sure predictions. I'm sure that Haruka won't cheat with him and I'm sure that she more "likely run away", but I forgot to tell you the reasons(because of the advice and pressure of her friends...otherwise she sticks to him even when she borders the extend of dangerous mental exhaustion and depression from that.).
And why we've got a dead or junk Takayuki? Because everything she could do the same Mitsuki did for a year and when in a similar situation Mitsuki's parents bans him from visiting her then Takayuki's emo-level rises to impossible amounts and no one can really handle that in a "normal" way. His situation worsens and he may commits sucide in the end.
Perhaps the 'what if?' thinking always have faults but I think I tried my best to think out the possiblility.

[Alchemist007]

Woa this is freaky, my subscription to this subforum is set to hidden (so I'd have to click the arrow to see if it updated) and this is the first time I did it since I subscribed almost 2 months ago. And it's the same day someone actually posts!

Anyways on topic; I agree that Haruka's personality besides infatuated girl wasn't really gone nearly into as much depth as Taka or Mitsu. I think that's one of the reasons I voted for Mitsu.

[Death Header]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Woa this is freaky, my subscription to this subforum is set to hidden (so I'd have to click the arrow to see if it updated) and this is the first time I did it since I subscribed almost 2 months ago. And it's the same day someone actually posts!

Well I didn't expect this thread to get posts immediately either, seeing that no one posted in this thread for two months.

Haruka is stronger than Mitsuki and she's really kind, but she's somewhat a coward to take actions and instead gives up or runs away.

This sentence kinda contradicts itself. If Haruka is mentally stronger than Mitsuki, shouldn't Haruka be taking action quicker than Mitsuki (who was pretty damn slow by the way)? I believe that if Haruka did not get into the accident, Haruka would've been a lot better for Takayuki than Mitsuki would ever have been, just because of the fact that Haruka would actually try and work together with Takayuki if there's a problem that rises instead of running away like a coward like Mitsuki.

[Alchemist007]

I wouldn't say Mitsuki betrayed her, I mean she loved the guy and he was depressed to shit, and no one knew if/when Haruka would wake up. That's not to say she's perfect or didn't have some issues of her own.

[Phantasmagoria]

I vaguely remembered why I've voted for Mitsuki..

I suppose the biggest part of my decision goes to her personality and treatment towards Takayuki. (Excluding the sexual act with Shinji.)

I certainly believe at certain times she couldn't get a hold of herself, (maybe her sexual desire is driven to the extent she'd willingly sacrifice her 'body' and just find anyone). She's blinded by her emotions thereafter, especially when Takayuki couldn't get over his self-perceived guilt for years, and Mitsuki couldn't get what she wanted from him - The sense of deep mutual love, which is also a way for Takayuki to "reward", "appreciate" and "compensate" back her love for being always by his side, a 24/7 supporting role.

It's a huge emotional torment on Mitsuki's part, but no one really knows what we'll do if we were her in the first place, and Mitsuki is pretty much catching on her age, there's not much time for her in that sense too.

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by Death Header

This sentence kinda contradicts itself. If Haruka is mentally stronger than Mitsuki, shouldn't Haruka be taking action quicker than Mitsuki (who was pretty damn slow by the way)? I believe that if Haruka did not get into the accident, Haruka would've been a lot better for Takayuki than Mitsuki would ever have been, just because of the fact that Haruka would actually try and work together with Takayuki if there's a problem that rises instead of running away like a coward like Mitsuki.

I don't know where you saw Mitsuki running away. Maybe if you mention the episode and the reason why you considered as that then I can react to that properly, bercause I don't remember something like that.

Back to the other thing: Haruka is strong in heart. But it doesn't mean he has a strong will to take actionl. She's shy and didn't make a move on Takayuki for a year(well, she didn't even tried to get closer to him). Whatever scenario you play(even her own) she always gives up(temporary or pernamently) on Takayuki before the fight really ends. We saw that in both KGNE shows. I think Haruka could endure Takayuki's suffering longer and she has the help of her family in it, but Takayuki would still sink deeper and deeper. She could do two things: 1.)Take care of him until Mitsuki wakes up. Very admirable thing indeed. Except if we exclude that Takayuki's only ther shadow of himself. 2.) Her parents' and friends' constant advices and pressure convinces her to leave him. Somone may takes her role after that, but the outcome is similar to the first one.
Phantasmagoria:
Our favourites are exactly the same!

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Death Header

If Mitsuki didn't have any feelings for Shinji when she did it with him, doesn't that make Mitsuki even worse than Takayuki? Having sex with someone you don't have feelings for shows how desperate Mitsuki was at that time. At least Takayuki never had sex with Haruka during the majority of the series.
I was going to vote for Mitsuki, but I'm really leaning towards Haruka at this point due to the fact that Mitsuki betrayed her best friend, and almost betrayed her own lover no less. Things would've been way different if Haruka wasn't in a comatose state.

Of course they would. And of course Mitsuki was very damn desperate, by the time she slept with Shinji - I didn't think that was anything subtle, really; as a matter of fact, I thought it was the whole point: she was unraveling in plain sight.

And, really, I agree with those who claim Haruka was stronger than Mitsuki: her speech at the end was proof and parcel of that, at least. However, I still prefer the sad and broken-hearted one over her, if only because she was strong enough in the beginning, for actually letting her friend have the guy she liked, instead of her - as well as all the pain she endured afterwards, mostly for the man she loved.

[yezhanquan]

Like I said before somewhere in the forum, what are the adults doing in the show? Mitsuki's mom knows nuts about what the girl is going tthrough, and Takayuki is.... It borders Wall Banging territory.

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Like I said before somewhere in the forum, what are the adults doing in the show? Mitsuki's mom knows nuts about what the girl is going tthrough, and Takayuki is.... It borders Wall Banging territory.

You know what it sounds like? Myself; Yourself. Where all the adults (except the Geog teacher) are nuts, and watch Da Capo. It's rather dumb, bordering on plain

FACEPALM.

[428]

Let's see about this. I voted Mitsuki.

Haruka was given ONE WHOLE YEAR. And she did next to NOTHING. This is seriously CLANNAD's spiritual predecessor.

Mitsuki really applied the one big law of life:


Yep. And that's what I like.
Personally, I prefer to work with people who are actively engaged with whatever it is that they;re doing and take initiative. People who employ first-mover's advantage especially to their benefit.

Besides, I think that it's not fair for Takayuki to wait forever. And I never saw Haruka and him together, so. Yeah.

[willyvereb]

What do you mean by that whole year? To wake up from her coma?If yes, then it's unfair to demand it from her.
Haruka was Takayuki's gf for a month before the accident.Not to mention their relationship wasn't too good.
Mitsuki was with him in his worst period and his girlfriend for 2 years.
I think Takayuki's a much bigger idiot and jerk if he chooses Haruka in the end.

[428]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

What do you mean by that whole year? To wake up from her coma?If yes, then it's unfair to demand it from her.
Haruka was Takayuki's gf for a month before the accident.Not to mention their relationship wasn't too good.
Mitsuki was with him in his worst period and his girlfriend for 2 years.
I think Takayuki's a much bigger idiot and jerk if he chooses Haruka in the end.

Actually, this is what I was getting at all along.
And no, not the coma.